PC Fortitude - Garbage for Damage

[SenpaiThatIngnoresYou]

I have gotten to knuckles 4 now at threat level 130 dealing with glowing cop zombies. Knuckles are effectively worthless at this point. Guns or die. Been thinking about drinking the fergettin potion and respeccing as hammer, at least that is always viable.

Are you drinking? Beer ups the damage by 300%, and correct me if i am wrong, but that also stacks with the moonshine. The glowing cop zombies are supposed to be tough, but with beer the game goes from being a zombie game to being a fist of the north star game where every punch makes a head explode.

but i have been doing fort/strength build, and the baseball bat is where it is at, that ragdoll effect is off the chain.

 

[Synvastian]

all the peeps on here complaining about Steel, and the thread focus was on Fortitude and Brawler...beer garden is a must for brawler, as well as a stock of painkillers (def buff is nice) fort bites, Steel or Military armor (higher def vs mobility) always have a way out, and when S*** hits the fan, a good DPS gun (Ak for all round, lower mag but faster reload so no getting stuck in animation as long, or the M60 for pure amount of lead you can throw in a short time)

 

[Maynard69]

Last I checked Paladin's are supposed to have crappy damage. At least you get to be Paladins with a machine gun.

Edit*

Just realized this sounds pretty dumb talking about knuckles, but Fortitude, healing factor, damage mitigation, Heavy Armor- Paladin.

Guess I should have said Palamonk, but that would sound more stupid. Whatever

 

[Maynard69]

Look STOP THIS. Int is absolutely needed, and in fact FORCED on the player by RNG. It's that damn Crucible. If you do not get one or the schematic for making them, you absolutely have to perk to Int 10 immediately, or else your re-enforced concrete base will be torn a new hole on a decent difficulty setting. Plus if you want to craft top tier stuff, you need Steel. I hate this aspect of the game. It murders solo play. Day 30 and I have no Crucible. It's crippling.

If it was forced I would have had to do it by now, besides just on a whim to try out a perk or two of turrets on one short playthrough

 

[Sjustus548]

I find Fortitude as being one of the best for melee combat. Could be that I'm not playing on a high enough difficulty but higher difficulties aren't really made for melee combat. Aim for the head with a good set of knuckles and you can kill or disable zombies very easily. With a normal punch I cause a zombies head to explode or knock them out which makes them an easy kill. Except for horde nights I never see a reason to switch from using my knuckles. I'm a walking tank that can't be killed.

 

[Kage848]

Look STOP THIS. Int is absolutely needed, and in fact FORCED on the player by RNG. It's that damn Crucible. If you do not get one or the schematic for making them, you absolutely have to perk to Int 10 immediately, or else your re-enforced concrete base will be torn a new hole on a decent difficulty setting. Plus if you want to craft top tier stuff, you need Steel. I hate this aspect of the game. It murders solo play. Day 30 and I have no Crucible. It's crippling.

Steel is int 10? That's crazy. They really need to rethink that. My god.

 

[Ghostlight]

Maybe you need to rethink base layout or trap layout, electric fence traps are godly, they won't kill anything, but they stun anything and makes them easy headshot targets for 1 hit kills with a shotgun. If the zombies are bashing your walls a lot your base layout is crap. Or you don't have the proper protection, surrounding your base with electric fence poles goes a LONG way to prevent base damage as they will be stunned most of the time unable to swing.
also again difficulty does not effect zombie block damage what so ever, it just effects their entity damage, and the player gets a damage penalty based on it. Warrior difficulty zombies do 150% dmg (normals hit for 15 insted of 10 on warrior, their base is 10 dmg), and the player does 83 or 87% of their normal damage (So a 13-17% penalty). However as I said, block damage is not effected. Even a MP base could get by pretty much untouched if its planned and trapped properly.

I will re-state this since it probably wasn't clear. This was temporary base. A stop-gap 10x10 cube built beside our magnificent fortress base that hadn't had all the electrics installed yet so was not quite ready for action. I was simply pointing out that in MP a concrete base will be destroyed very quickly if you are fighting old-school (no maze or ramp exploits) and you will need Steel. By day 21 potentially (which is way way WAY earlier than you'd ever need Steel in any previous alpha) due to demolishers.

I am well aware that difficulty doesn't affect block damage but gamestage affects zombie numbers and type and is out of whack in MP. That was my point.

Not to mention you need Steel for most top tier recipes. Locking it behind Int 10 is not good design.

 

[Ghostlight]

Ok that's good feedback. I get what you are saying. I agree it would cripple someone who only wants to build the same type of defense every game and not make use of the various traps and techniques available. Since you are not willing to "exploit" as you put it then I can see how you would be totally frustrated.

The only thing I am frustrated with is Steel being locked behind Int 10. Oh, and people who have not experienced the ridiculous gamestage over-tuning in MP thinking they know what I am talking about. That is also frustrating.

And for the record, our main fortress base is a cunning design that has evolved slowly since alpha14, incorporating the ideas of my entire co-op group and is verging on perfect (imho). A lot of time and design has gone into perfecting it. Every time we build it it gets a new idea here or there added to make it even better. In the game in question we simply hadn't finished it yet so we threw up a concrete box as a stop-gap. However the main base needs Steel due to a redesign we had to add for Demolishers.

if mazes are out of bounds use a ton of electric fence poles surrounding the base, a stunned zombie doesn't do any block damage and are very easy headshots.

Hehe, we don't need electric fences. Our design is much more cunning.

 

[Ghostlight]

I'm just sitting here rubbing my head wondering how to exploit zombie AI without using tools and brains to do it. I mean, the entire focus of the game is survival by exploiting said weaknesses. The moment you put a block down or built anything, you're exploiting the zombie AI. They have to react to you, and their new environment. You're essentially exploiting them no matter what you make or base you live or fight in. Some styles are just better at it than others.
I mean, I won't stop you from playing how you want to play - but some of the greatest victories in human history were won coupled with sheer trickery. If you're not willing to make concessions to that, then no amount of advice is going to actually help you. Survival requires strategy. Strategy requires understanding the enemy. If you think a maze or some other means of exploiting them is somehow not manly or you're doing it to 'cuck the libs' then I got a mantra for you from the US Army, "Work smarter, not harder"

I hear what you are saying but it is ridiculously easy to exploit the AI with a few infinite ramps or mazes once you know its rules. At least it was in A17, I haven't actually bothered to try in A18, but as far as I can see it would still be easy. Problem is it would trivialize horde night and we don't want to do that. We want danger and threat. And we want to build bases that would handle any AI. Our rule of thumb is the base must be able to handle every AI in every alpha we ever played, and not just the super easy to exploit AI they added in A17. And must utilize no ramp or maze exploits.

 

[meganoth]

I hear what you are saying but it is ridiculously easy to exploit the AI with a few infinite ramps or mazes once you know its rules. At least it was in A17, I haven't actually bothered to try in A18, but as far as I can see it would still be easy. Problem is it would trivialize horde night and we don't want to do that. We want danger and threat. And we want to build bases that would handle any AI. Our rule of thumb is the base must be able to handle every AI in every alpha we ever played, and not just the super easy to exploit AI they added in A17. And must utilize no ramp or maze exploits.

You use a temporary and insufficient horde base instead of the real horde base and then complain you need steel? No, you either need a base design for the real horde base that grows with the demand or you need a better design for the temporary base.

If you play as if steel was guaranteed then make it guaranteed (through INT). Otherwise plan with concrete.

 

[Orclover]

Steel is int 10? That's crazy. They really need to rethink that. My god.

The crucible part of it is INT 10, which sucks and level locked like that is insane. However you can buy steel and find the crucible in lootboxes almost from day 1. I picked up a crucible recently on day 5 and got a schematic on day 7, can now make forged steel. My poor friend who is going INT build as usual is still only level 1 and is not happy with how crafters are getting shafted.

 

[Ghostlight]

You use a temporary and insufficient horde base instead of the real horde base and then complain you need steel? No, you either need a base design for the real horde base that grows with the demand or you need a better design for the temporary base.
If you play as if steel was guaranteed then make it guaranteed (through INT). Otherwise plan with concrete.

You need Steel for many things, lots of it. Your base in MP when gamestage scales up SO FAST is but one example.

 

[meganoth]

You need Steel for many things, lots of it. Your base in MP when gamestage scales up SO FAST is but one example.

Agreed on needing steel for lots of things. But each of those other use-cases use small amounts of steel that can be bought at the trader and wrenched from specific items or found. The things you want to built with steel also can be found or bought instead of crafting them. You probably have to carefully consider what is essential and what optional when your steel supply is limited.

 

[Ghostlight]

Agreed on needing steel for lots of things. But each of those other use-cases use small amounts of steel that can be bought at the trader and wrenched from specific items or found.

4-players. Everyone wants everything crafted. It adds up.

Our group has already used about 5000 Steel Bars, I'd guesstimate. As the Miner I kept a fairly close eye on our consumption of Iron -> Steel. And we are on day 33.

 

[Ghostlight]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

 

[Ramethzer0]

I hear what you are saying but it is ridiculously easy to exploit the AI with a few infinite ramps or mazes once you know its rules. At least it was in A17, I haven't actually bothered to try in A18, but as far as I can see it would still be easy. Problem is it would trivialize horde night and we don't want to do that. We want danger and threat. And we want to build bases that would handle any AI. Our rule of thumb is the base must be able to handle every AI in every alpha we ever played, and not just the super easy to exploit AI they added in A17. And must utilize no ramp or maze exploits.

I've made bases that made me perfectly safe while I fought zeds. I've made bases that made me perfectly safe without fighting zeds. I've made bases that I gave a weakness to, because I knew the zeds would exploit it. I think the best base is the one that balances these things out. I gain a sense of satisfaction through wit and strategy. If you don't want to make anything other than a perfectly level playing field without using a maze, what sorta base design are you actually using? I mean if you want to straight up face the horde without trivializing it, then why not do it on open ground?

I'm not attacking your idea, I just want to know what you consider to be the sweet spot. I will likely have a better suggestion if I can visualize what sort of tactics you consider to be worthwhile.

 

[SunderGoldmane]

Iآ’d love for the power attack of knuckles to be an uppercut with a large chance to stagger instead of the dome punch it is currently. It feels like a jab. Iآ’d really love to see some kind of small fluid combo system. Left click are alternating hooks and right click is an over head or an uppercut depending on which hand is up.

 

[meganoth]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

Somewhat okay for me. If at all I might (if neccessary) add more sources to scavenge it in the wild. Maybe make it INT9 instead of INT10 (effectively that would be INT 8 then with the glasses).

Since the schematic or the crucible itself can drop even for a lvl 1 it is naturally very harsh for some other plebs to have the bad luck to never find it. On the other hand steel is the last and ONLY end-game upgrade. And I mean the end-game where everyone has enough perk points to perk into a second attribute. For everything except extensive base-building you probably can wrench enough steel (not actually tested it though). And then you have a choice: Wrench/buy (i.e. send the perception/mechanic guy to get steel and someone else to make a trader tour) or go INT (which also has some other benefits with trap xp and turrets).

You saying "Everyone wants everything crafted" is for the resource management game of 7D2D like saying you want the Q6 M60 guaranteed for the shooter part. But your group wants it difficult, so your group might play the resource game on difficult and not only the shooter part on difficult. A group has it easy: If crucible doesn't drop, someone (preferably the one who already uses turrets :cocksure: ) bites the bullet and goes INT. If your group doesn't want survival at all and only play a tower defense shooter (and it really sounds like you are the only one doing the work in your group (i.e. the mining for example) and the rest just wants to have an easy time :cocksure: ) then there is always creative menu.

You also might never find a working chemstation. Again there is the choice of speccing into int (less than for steel, granted) or continue searching for it and meanwhile living with the consequences.

 

[Shillen]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

It wouldn't be so bad if the skill points required for high stats wasn't stupid. Going from int 5 to int 10 costs a LOT of skill points. It's really never worth it to take a stat to 10 because of how many skill points you need to spend.

 

[Orclover]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

It's crafters that are being screwed here honestly not the players. In the last day since I posted I have found 2 more crucibles, i'm barely level 12. They are now gathering dust in our drop off box waiting for my buddy to log in and use them. What is likely to happen though is looting them will get nerfed into oblivion instead of crafting made more reasonable.

It wouldn't be so bad if the skill points required for high stats wasn't stupid. Going from int 5 to int 10 costs a LOT of skill points. It's really never worth it to take a stat to 10 because of how many skill points you need to spend.

Oh its worse the higher level you go. I hit level 30-40 and the skill points just friggin stop suddenly due to the exploding experience needed. Honestly after level 40 we should only get skill points from each tier V mission we run and surviving each horde night all the way through should award a point or two. It would be way faster than leveling. Maybe even give them for those paper quest that we pick up that are almost worthless.