PC Food Spoilage and Its Effect on Game Play A17 and Beyond

I dont get how people can think A16 had a perfect food system. It didn't even work with wellness. 1 meat stew kept you full for 4 in game days. Wellness being removed was a benefit. I mean, sure food can be difficult sometimes at the start of an 17 game, but Ive never had or played with people who ever complained about food. Everyone has chests full of food, eating it in mass because you may as well use it to get HP back after battle, since you have a decade's worth of food and raw meat massig the size of 10 elephants waiting to be cooked by day 14-21.

 
Well... I'll say that Starvation Mod for A16.4 has food spoilage and a tonne of other things! But Starvation is way way beyond what I think TFP will do here. You can still check out Starvation... IF YOU DARE! <EG>

 
No ty lol. I like food spoilage, but micromanaging various food intake because I'll get sick if I dont balance meals is way beyond my personal tastes for enjoyment. Not knocking it if other people like it.

 
The game does not need food spoilage. Did A16 need spoilage? No, because it had decent mechanics wove about food usage.
You guys are only now talking about adding something as unfun as food spoilage BECAUSE the mechanics in A17 surrounding food and stamina are STUPID and VERY VERY POORLY DESIGNED.

Fix the core issue, I say, don't add another crap unfun mechanic like a bandage on top of it. It's festering!
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Everything you just said is wrong.

1) The game has always needed food spoilage because of the dynamics it creates in the progression of your character. It creates a whole additional progression line to follow from early game to late game. It makes you focus on frequent food gathering in the beginning which eats time away from preparing in other ways. It also provides new objectives as players seek to solve the problem of storage and preservation so that they can then focus their time on other activities. This process is a lot of fun for those who enjoy survival games (of which entropy is a staple).

2) We guys have had repeated conversations about food spoilage for years. This is not the first conversation on this topic. Its not even just the 20th. This has come up repeatedly long before A17 or A16 or even A15.

3) The design around food and stamina and water is pure genius, in my opinion. It is new and requires balancing but food itself is already more complex than it was in A16. As of now there is a buff associated with food that can increase your chance for food poisoning. There are recipes that can give other benefits not present in A16 and you can overeat to keep your stamina bar pasted to the top for quite awhile which was also not possible in A16. Eating a meat stew at 90% fullness will keep you full for a nice while.

4) Not eveyone likes every feature or mechanic and I see you would probably label food spoilage as grindy, unfun, micromanaging, etc. BUT- there are plenty of people who do find such mechanics fun and natural as part of a survival genre game as evidenced by the fact that most every other survival game out there besides this one already has such a mechanic. Madmole has said in the past he is open to it so as always we will all talk about it until such time it happens and then we all will rage at the next level based on its implementation.

 
DIsagree. I dont think that food and water needs to be balanced for early+late.Its fine that food and water are only a problem at the start. Later, we should have more important concerns, like improving our base, defending and finding good items.

We still need to eat ofc, but its fine if we have a big food stash, we arent the weaklings of the start of the game, we have more important things to do.
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I agree. But I believe that later when we have more important concerns and we shouldn't have to worry about food any longer it will be because we made it happen by crafting the tech that will preserve the food. So right now food can be stored indefinitely in any container as a free benefit. All food spoilage does is make a pathway for the player to follow to create that same basic status-- just not for free.

 
Everything you just said is wrong.
1) The game has always needed food spoilage because of the dynamics it creates in the progression of your character. It creates a whole additional progression line to follow from early game to late game. It makes you focus on frequent food gathering in the beginning which eats time away from preparing in other ways. It also provides new objectives as players seek to solve the problem of storage and preservation so that they can then focus their time on other activities. This process is a lot of fun for those who enjoy survival games (of which entropy is a staple).

2) We guys have had repeated conversations about food spoilage for years. This is not the first conversation on this topic. Its not even just the 20th. This has come up repeatedly long before A17 or A16 or even A15.

3) The design around food and stamina and water is pure genius, in my opinion. It is new and requires balancing but food itself is already more complex than it was in A16. As of now there is a buff associated with food that can increase your chance for food poisoning. There are recipes that can give other benefits not present in A16 and you can overeat to keep your stamina bar pasted to the top for quite awhile which was also not possible in A16. Eating a meat stew at 90% fullness will keep you full for a nice while.

4) Not eveyone likes every feature or mechanic and I see you would probably label food spoilage as grindy, unfun, micromanaging, etc. BUT- there are plenty of people who do find such mechanics fun and natural as part of a survival genre game as evidenced by the fact that most every other survival game out there besides this one already has such a mechanic. Madmole has said in the past he is open to it so as always we will all talk about it until such time it happens and then we all will rage at the next level based on its implementation.
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Agree.

 
To be honest, at least in my experience, food is still not an issue at all.

My first playthrough was more of a test gameplay. I wanted to check how the game felt before diving into a serious full survival seed. I never had any issues with food. I wasn't even trying, I wasn't even looting much. Just walking around in the general area, killing zombies and checking some places from time to time.

I always had plenty of food. The new farms have more than enough to keep yourself fed for days, I didn't even need to hunt, really.

Oh yeah, and when it comes to water, after finding a pond and a pot, I had limitless clean water. Nothing new here, this has been the case for, I believe, all previous alphas.

So yeah, food and water aren't much of an issue this time around either. Maybe a tad more than in A16, but it's still not concerning at all. I've been praying for food spoilage since the days of the IRC chat, but we still don't know if the devs are even considering this feature.

 
I agree. But I believe that later when we have more important concerns and we shouldn't have to worry about food any longer it will be because we made it happen by crafting the tech that will preserve the food. So right now food can be stored indefinitely in any container as a free benefit. All food spoilage does is make a pathway for the player to follow to create that same basic status-- just not for free.
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Agreed 110%

 
All food spoilage does is make a pathway for the player to follow to create that same basic status-- just not for free.
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I don't see it providing any benefit beyond more busywork and additional challenge for the new player, in a game that already has the new player spending too much time looking for a cooking pot and food before even their first day is over. It will probably wind up being a lame new workstation like the Forge, but instead it's a Smoker: stick a bunch of meat in there, turn it on, forget about it until later. Not exciting. Ditto for Canning Station or whatever else they come up with: "fun" for the late-game player to sort; a burden for the new player who doesn't have the perk or equipment.

Honestly, if I didn't know what I was doing and A17 was my first experience with the survival mechanics, I would be instantly put off. The game just demands too much from the new player, because the devs has mastered the early game like everyone else, and in an effort to make it challenging they have front-loaded the game with too many requirements. If anything, the new player should start with more food (food that doesn't spoil). Failure to find a cooking pot and/or meat should not result in the player being ruined for stamina on day 2.

 
"Busywork?" "too much time looking for a cooking pot?"

Otherwise known as gameplay and purpose. Are you one of those who doesn't believe the actual game begins until you are at the top of the progression? I like that I have to search for a pot. I am happiest when I have to boil water in cans for a day or two until I get the pot and can then progress to bottles. I don't see that as an annoyance delaying me from the real game, I see that as the real game. Every part of securing food, water, and shelter is fun for me.

Also you sell new players short. The game is already equipped with ways to help new players ease into it if then need to. Turn off zombies, turn down difficulty, etc. Remember that "new players" are most likely by a large majority not new to video games and probably not new to survival games. I'll bet most of them have played with food spoilage in other games and won't be thrown by the mechanic.

Finally, even if the way it is implemented is "lame" with a new station that is turn on and forget it will at least be better than the current implementation which is only load food into wooden crate and forget. I mean if loading stuff into a container and forgetting about it is the definition of lame then the game can only get better than currently according to your own description.

 
I think a food spoilage system could work. But there's a few things that need to be in place before it's implemented. Timers for items for one. Someone earlier suggested a system with that where it only updated when the container was accessed. Second would be player body temperature affecting food spoilage in inventory. The hotter you are, the hotter it is in your backpack. Means your chocolate's going to melt. Third would be putting food items into classes. Honey and canned food are Class One, they don't spoil. Bread, pies, and boiled meat are Class Two. They turn into items like mouldy bread and rotten meat after a while. Meanwhile items like corn, potatoes, and blueberries are Class Three. They either completely disappear from the inventory when they spoil or are used to make fertilizer via compost. Fourth would be food handling. If you put rotten meat into a container with uncooked meat or something it's going to cause that meat to go bad within minutes.

 
Everything you just said is wrong.
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Haha Roland's Rollin' right over you!

Buwaahahahahaha!!!!!

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I was thinking more Luke Skywalker when I said that.

luke-last-jedi-thala-siren.jpg


 
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... It seems snow doesn't melt in the post apocalyptic future, but I have to strip down to my briefs to step outside.
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Do you play A17 or A16?

With A17 it's the more cloths, the better.

 
I think a food spoilage system could work. But there's a few things that need to be in place before it's implemented. Timers for items for one. Someone earlier suggested a system with that where it only updated when the container was accessed. Second would be player body temperature affecting food spoilage in inventory. The hotter you are, the hotter it is in your backpack. Means your chocolate's going to melt. Third would be putting food items into classes. Honey and canned food are Class One, they don't spoil. Bread, pies, and boiled meat are Class Two. They turn into items like mouldy bread and rotten meat after a while. Meanwhile items like corn, potatoes, and blueberries are Class Three. They either completely disappear from the inventory when they spoil or are used to make fertilizer via compost. Fourth would be food handling. If you put rotten meat into a container with uncooked meat or something it's going to cause that meat to go bad within minutes.
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Most of the things you just described is already in a mod called starvation mod. Most of the food spoils there and any spoiled food except for spoiled drinks can be turned into fertilizer. To prevent spoilage you either hook up a fridge or use an icebox (container with snow).

I don't like the idea of body temperature affecting food spoilage. Stick to environment temperature and time combination, like in real life.

"If you put rotten meat into a container with uncooked meat or something it's going to cause that meat to go bad within minutes."

Umm a big NO on this. What the heck is this?

I agree that they should add in spoilage and other (food-related) things later when the main features of a17 are done and mostly bugfree. Perhaps have some kind of food/animal update later on. I would like more animals if possible and separate the meats into categories like beef, pork, venison, poultry, etc. Wouldn't it be cool to see steak, pork chops, chicken wings, bbq chicken, or something like madmole's supreme dinner (32 oz tomahawk ribeye steak with chicken wings, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob and beer) on the menu? Would also like a ton more food recipes and more types of plants to grow. Again, look at starvation mod for ideas.

 
Most of the things you just described is already in a mod called starvation mod. Most of the food spoils there and any spoiled food except for spoiled drinks can be turned into fertilizer. To prevent spoilage you either hook up a fridge or use an icebox (container with snow).
...

"If you put rotten meat into a container with uncooked meat or something it's going to cause that meat to go bad within minutes."

Umm a big NO on this. What the heck is this?
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I haven't played with any of the mods, so I didn't know about how Starvation handles it. As for my reasoning behind spoiled food spoiling other food... It would be a pain to implement a large number of different states like a mouldy state, or maggot infested, or whatever else. Streamlining it so that spoiled food spoils other food makes it so that you need to be careful and store your food with consideration. In real life you don't want to leave chicken out on the counter for hours and then put it back in a package with fresh chicken for example.

 
I haven't played with any of the mods, so I didn't know about how Starvation handles it. As for my reasoning behind spoiled food spoiling other food... It would be a pain to implement a large number of different states like a mouldy state, or maggot infested, or whatever else. Streamlining it so that spoiled food spoils other food makes it so that you need to be careful and store your food with consideration. In real life you don't want to leave chicken out on the counter for hours and then put it back in a package with fresh chicken for example.
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Yes I understand that rotten food can contaminate other food if they touch. What I don't like is the duration you proposed. Within minutes is really unrealistic - you have to include time as a factor. Plus you never took into account the environment. If you place rotten food in a freezer next to fresh (frozen) meat, the cold will put the bacteria in a dormant state and the fresh (frozen) meat would not become rotten. Change the container to a fridge and it would still take some time for that fresh food to rot. Another factor is that the containers are X by Y in size. People would raise torches and pitchforks if rotten food turned fresh food rotten even if they were placed far away from each other in the same container. Ignoring item placement, even if you implement this feature as you suggested, your entire container would become full of rotten food if any one of the food suddenly turns rotten while in the container. Finally, imagine having to write code for all this - gives me a headache just thinking about it.

It's an idea but would need lots of votes (to put it in) and lots of good feedback to keep it in-game.

 
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