PC Firearms are a joke in this game and have been for several iterations.
- Thread starter CoolJ
- Start date
Aerial
New member
The biggest problem with guns is that bows are way too powerful comparatively.
I suspect the game would be much better if the wooden bow was deleted outright. Make compound bows the only bow available, and make it require mods before it will do respectable damage. The bow should be useful for hunting and vultures, and maybe some of the softer zombies if you're willing to spend multiple arrows on each. And for situations where you absolutely need to be quiet.
Guns should be the go-to weapons for most circumstances.
I suspect the game would be much better if the wooden bow was deleted outright. Make compound bows the only bow available, and make it require mods before it will do respectable damage. The bow should be useful for hunting and vultures, and maybe some of the softer zombies if you're willing to spend multiple arrows on each. And for situations where you absolutely need to be quiet.
Guns should be the go-to weapons for most circumstances.
Randomdude
New member
I will respectfully disagree on the bow thing. You're taking away a play style if you do this. There are some hardcore bow and arrow stealth types out there that the compound bow (used to be the crossbow, but it SUCKS now) is their bread and butter. To go even further I would buff the arrow damage for late game (Maybe acid arrows that dissolve brains) and the stealth bonuses.
What you might want is a buff for guns, which I understand. What I don't agree with is a "buff" to guns by nerfing bows.
grieferbastard
New member
So, again. You're trying to cherry pick clean hits on a stationary mock up target in a controlled setting vs the actual statistics of what head injuries are like and medical reports from the actual doctors who deal with head injuries from firearms.
To reiterate. 42% of head wounds from firearms are not fatal. Of the brain only the bit in the back and a narrow strip down the middle are the bits you need to do zombie stuff. The shock, blood loss and trauma that puts people down doesn't apply to zombies that's the point of zombies. If I blow the left 3rd of his skull out it would instantly kill a human but a zombie, in theory obviously, doesn't care.
Which, again as I said, doesn't matter. What's stupidly unrealistic is that you have the accuracy of a zero point control mechanism at a desk when in reality running backwards down a street being chased by zombies carrying 120lbs of awkward gear in your pack in scrap metal armor. Or that you're not bed ridden most the time from your infections, pulled muscles and healing injuries.
It is not ever about realism but a balance between game balance and suspension of disbelief. You want to mod up guns to be OHK so you can god mode around, do it. It's a game. If that's fun for you then fo so. However for the rest of us I don't feel like that's necessary for me to enjoy the game and would in fact enjoy it less because it makes the game less balanced and challenging.
Again, as I said before, I'm all for firearms coming up a bit and madmole has said he's working on that. However game balance > realism, like with carry capacity, stamina, mobility, accuracy, health, healing and every other facet of the game.
Aerial
New member
I'd be totally okay with making the compound bow a weapon that's maybe a little weak in early game but becomes highly effective with stealth perks and bow mods. I think that would be a great way to go. What I don't like is the existence of a bow we can craft out of sticks and grass that's better than a 9mm pistol.
grieferbastard
New member
As to bows vs guns, a good compund bow delivers a stupid amount of kenetic energy. No issue with similar damage. Bow fires slower and has a draw time and a slow projectile but is quiet. That's a perfectly reasonable balance factor.
I agree guns are a major disappointment. In A16 where I was OCD about quality and the way they depleted at a ridiculous rate, along with lower output all the way down they were best saved for emergencies. A17 at least the QL issues are gone but the damage sucks. The 7.62 especially are disappointing, and it's beyond my comprehension why the same round fired from a full auto does like half the damage. It isn't like ammo is all that cheap and plentiful that I feel I can go around wasting it. I'm finding I still pretty much save them for emergencies, and bow/club remain my everyday goto.
It doesn't really seem to get better later either. In testing out a maxed level, loaded up with fully modded best of everything, I still feel the guns don't do enough damage. Fully maxed out I really do expect 1 shot, 1 kill from a 7.62mm
It doesn't really seem to get better later either. In testing out a maxed level, loaded up with fully modded best of everything, I still feel the guns don't do enough damage. Fully maxed out I really do expect 1 shot, 1 kill from a 7.62mm
Randomdude
New member
Completely agree. It's gonna get fixed in the balancing stages when about to go to stable. I can assure you that the TFP know a bunch of things that are really messed up in the sense of balancing, there's so much more to fix first.
Randomdude
New member
Hunch mixed with the answers Roland and others of the team have given. Roland has used in many posts the "This is experimental, wait for balance before it becomes the stable build" (paraphrasing [@Roland - Correct me if I'm wrong]). Add to that the changes in the last build to stamina usage at least tell you that they are changing stuff.
For example, It would boggle my mind that stable gets released with:
- the bow would do the same damage as a handgun.
- the real difference between item level are mod slots instead of some damage benefit.
- the Zeds bonus damage to the weakest block (although supposedly worked on, havent hd time to check it)
- Some kind of tweaking to the perk system that everyone has been complaining about.
- there's a bunch more but you get my point.
Randomdude
New member
- the bow would do the same damage as a handgun.
Just to make sure that I'm not misunderstood... I want the gun damaged buffed, not the bows (all of them) nerfed.
Having a bow using build viable opens more ways of playing the game. I would go as far as saying add a bunch of perks to stealthy gameplay. The more the better.
CoolJ
New member
I don't think I would classify bows as "way too powerful". Fresh off the boat, we are talking four headshots for your standard walker and up to eight for zombies like the biker dude. A few bad shots and some straight up missing can seriously consume some arrows. That's why I generally just go for the sneak shot and finish up with the club. Seems about right though. If anything the compound bow needs some balancing. It should probably have a nice big stamina hit when you pull it and no drain for aiming. Since that is how they work. Either way it should take a little more stamina to use a compound than a stick bow depending on how long you hold it. The stick bow correctly drains stamina as you aim. It wouldn't be too hard to make the compound bow function like the real thing.
Little things like that add character to a weapon and maybe help balance out the fact that it is more powerful. Then the stick bow would arguably be better for rapid fire and the compound would be better for aimed shots. No damage changes required and now more of a sidegrade rather than a straight upgrade.