PC Firearms are a joke in this game and have been for several iterations.

Non-argument. If you don't have access to a firearm from the first minute in the game then it is not easy. If you only have five rounds and there are 30 zombies, it is not easy. Take more than five seconds to formulate an actual rebuttal and get back to me.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you're playing 7 days to die? I have a stockpile of guns and ammo in the first few days, and chests full by the second week. If it was a 1 shot headshot there would be zero difficulty to the game, even if you took insane^99. You don't even get 1 shot headshots in "realistic" shooters...

 
Except your argument itself is broken.
Most of your brain has nothing to do with what a zombie needs to function. The bit at the back of your head and a chunk sorta down from the top middle to the middle are about all a zombie needs and they don't even need all of any of it. You could blow most of a zombies brain away and he'd lose nothing he needs to chase and eat you. That's the point. Sure, he may have trouble telling the difference between you and his uncle Bob or maybe he doesn't remember his childhood or maybe his sense of smell is messed up but he's not going to care. No sense of pain, trauma or shock is also gone so most of what puts a human down in a headshot is gone.

Think of it like a heart shot to kill a vampire. Blowing holes in his chest cavity and internal organs isn't going to stop him. Stake directly in the heart is it. Sure, if I blow a hole in your stomach I can fit my first through you're done. You're sitting down and going about the business of messily expiring. The vampire is just pissed though and all fangs and lace and pity comments on foolish mortals.
Click to expand...
My argument is broken? Really? If we use your logic then all of the zombies in the game are blind and deaf or pretty much have no sensory ability. The game models the head as one entity. Not several. How many parts of the brain do you intend for the developers to model? Do you even understand how a bullet fired from a gun does damage? I would suggest you look up a few ballistics tests and see what is happening when that bullet enters a body that is made of around 70% water. There is literally an internal explosion that opens up a wound several inches in diameter. I want you to go watch some of those videos and come back here and tell me you have faith that the jelly that you call a brain isn't going to be utterly obliterated by such an event regardless of it's location in your skull. It is tantamount to a miracle when someone survives a headshot by any firearm. It is not normal. It's far less normal for that person to continue to do anything after the fact.

Likewise we are not trying to disprove the existence of zombies here. Since your reasoning is only one in a very large list of reasons there will never be a threat of a zombie uprising, how is it my argument is the one that is broken? I have no problems with exceptions being made for the enemies in the game that are not zombies. Like the feral whit, which is clearly not a zombie but a mutated person. Could conceivably been blessed with the mutation of a much harder and more dense skull.

How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go to this end? The conditions you propose for "survival" of this situation should render the dead humans unable to attack you at all anyway.

 
While I'm not a gun nut by any means and know next to nothing about guns irl, I tend to agree to pretty much everything said. Guns should be relatively rare finds, powerfully deadly in any case, vary in accuracy and durability and always have the negative effect of attracting more Zs until you put a suppressor on 'em.
Click to expand...
This game is set in the US, no way in hell that guns would be hard to find, there is more than 1 gun per person in the US. And that is only the legally sold guns and not the blunderbuss that people make:P

 
This game is set in the US, no way in hell that guns would be hard to find, there is more than 1 gun per person in the US. And that is only the legally sold guns and not the blunderbuss that people make:P
Click to expand...
I totally agree. Ammo on the other hand.. You pretty much are not getting any unless you make it yourself or get really lucky. Then what are the chances that ammo is for the gun you have? That is the reason that break open shotguns are really the only viable option in a SHTF situation. Since they are not auto reloading and can tolerate the usage of a variety of propellants and "Shot". Think of it as a fancy breach loading musket. The ammo for a shotgun can be improvised far more easily than almost any other type of gun. The chamber on a shot gun is not even reliant on a casing as it is intended from the very start to contain the pressure of firing what is essentially caseless ammo.

 
My argument is broken? Really? If we use your logic then all of the zombies in the game are blind and deaf or pretty much have no sensory ability. The game models the head as one entity. Not several. How many parts of the brain do you intend for the developers to model? Do you even understand how a bullet fired from a gun does damage? I would suggest you look up a few ballistics tests and see what is happening when that bullet enters a body that is made of around 70% water. There is literally an internal explosion that opens up a wound several inches in diameter. I want you to go watch some of those videos and come back here and tell me you have faith that the jelly that you call a brain isn't going to be utterly obliterated by such an event regardless of it's location in your skull. It is tantamount to a miracle when someone survives a headshot by any firearm. It is not normal. It's far less normal for that person to continue to do anything after the fact.
Likewise we are not trying to disprove the existence of zombies here. Since your reasoning is only one in a very large list of reasons there will never be a threat of a zombie uprising, how is it my argument is the one that is broken? I have no problems with exceptions being made for the enemies in the game that are not zombies. Like the feral whit, which is clearly not a zombie but a mutated person. Could conceivably been blessed with the mutation of a much harder and more dense skull.

How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go to this end? The conditions you propose for "survival" of this situation should render the dead humans unable to attack you at all anyway.
Click to expand...
You're the one who started this trip down the rabbit hole with saying all headshots should be a kill or close to it and trying to equate that to RL. I pointed out that it's not the case and included, in my original response, an actual link to exactly what getting shot in the head functions like and exactly, medically, how that works and what it looks like. There is no 'explosion'. Depending on the bullet it can fragment or mushroom both of which leave a much larger exit than entry. However you're attempting to equate a hit center of the skull with a large caliber weapon with that of a glancing, angled or off center shot with, well, anything.

All of which, as I stated, is largely irrelevant because what we're talking about is game balance. As I stated before I agree that guns need to be more effective. There's no reason at all for me to invest the time, effort and energy into making ammo when I can absolutely wipe a BM horde with a fire axe and compound bow and use 1/1000th (not hyperbole) the materials to do so.

 
Well, at some point, you have to stop and ask, if you even want to have any guns in the game at all. Why should I bother with a Single shot rifle, that reloads about as slow as a crossbow, is far more costly to operate and will attract zombies? Why on earth did ANYBODY at all in the history of the universe bother with firearms in the first place?

Also, the setting of 7dtd is seemingly an american one, yet in the country of more guns than people, where every other yankedoodle gets off on his 5 AR 15 rifles, and hunters pack more punch than a WWII army squad could hope for....

Why is the hunting rifle a single shot one, that even most conservative militaries abandoned in the second half of the 19th C?

I used to own a german Military rifle from the early 1880s, that actually really used an all lead bullet, and black powder (!) in brass shells, and it had a 8 shot magazine.

In my country, which is far FAR from being as gun laden as the US, pretty much all hunters at least have 5 shot rifles, many of the Mauser family of guns.

I also own a crossbow, and it is ridiculous how fast the crossbow is reloaded in this game.

 
You're the one who started this trip down the rabbit hole with saying all headshots should be a kill or close to it and........ There is no 'explosion'.
Click to expand...

There are thousands of such videos on youtube. Even ones with arrows and swords etc.

Wow, just wow. Watch the cavity that opens up when a bullet goes into ballistic gelatin. AKA the closest approximation of flesh that we can make and still be able to see what is happening inside. You just have no clue of the energies involved here do you? There is no case or reason for zombies to not be stopped by a headshot from a firearm. Either in this game or in something approximating a real life situation. It's dumb that it happens in the game 100% of the time for several reasons. Only one of which would be minor realism. You can't honestly think that the way guns work in the game now is just fine. Everyone that is older than five knows I was making a generalization. My point is still clear. Zombies not dying to the most powerful weapons we have available to us in the game is a problem. The gun is what you go to when things get nasty and you need intervention from Poppa Browning. I mean why were guns even invented in the first place? Since 7 days to die logic says all battles should be fought with arrows and fire axes.

This is a case of forest for the trees. You are really trying to tell me you think a bullet to head usually amounts to a minor flesh wound to zombies as you perceive it. I am showing you video evidence that people that live through even handgun caliber headshots are among the luckiest people on the planet and I see no reason a zombie would be much different. That isn't even the most compelling argument I can make. More importantly, it feels stupid and is poor game balance.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In the end i wonder zombies were already dead unless we splash the head like jelly if not a hole on zombie head doesnt made them lay down.

 
Yes, guns MUST perform like in real life especially since everything else in this game is so believable. It really breaks immersion that when I shoot a mutated acid vomiting cop, carrying several tons of rock and 45 trees in my backpack that they don't just die already.

/sarcasm off

 
Gun damage does need work, and is even stated as such in the items.xml.

9mm: yeah, pistol to head, mebbe not ded.

Shotgun to head: birdshot: no. slug: oh yeah.

7.62: 7.62x39 (AK) mebbe. 7.62x51 or standard .308: ayup. yer ded, ded, ded. (gonna be missing a big chunk of yer noggin)

.50 cal : you ain't got no noggin no more. done like dinner.

No .50 in game (yet) is why I'm modding UP the rifle damage (a lot)

You get hit with a Barrett, yer toast. (well, painting the walls most likely)

 
For me, the problem I see is the headshot damage was removed.

In A16 depending on weapon, it could be up to 7x (or 9x was it?) for sniper. So you could headshot a cop once or twice and drop them. And a radiated a few times. Now .. no. Even perking up 150 % damage bonus to headshots at lvl 5 is way too little.

They should put it back, headshot damage by default being 2x or 3x, and then just let the headshot perk be EXTRA multiplier. It really feels really dumb to headshot a zombie with a hunting rifle, several times, before he drops dead.

/V -

 
IMO the whole point comes down to it's not fun to shoot bullet sponges and count headshots - after so and so many headshots this type of zombie goes down and after so much more it will die.

 
The whole discussion about realism and simulating real gun behavior / damage is ridiculous. The whole game isn't realistic to begin with, please stop thinking making guns act like they do IRL is the solution to make them good.

I agree with OP. Guns are way too abundant, not thrilling at all to find, and don't really bring much to the table compared to a simple bow/arrow combination, especially when taking into account that you need to craft bullets, repair them, and make a ton of noise.

I think guns should be super rare (who cares if it's in the United States where there are a lot of guns) and trigger a major "YAY!" when you find one, ammo should be super scarce and difficult to craft, but the guns need to feel powerful and useful and dominate basic weaponry such a wooden clubs and bows (even compound). Not saying everything should be an insta kill with a HS, but it should pack some good power to make them worthwhile, fun & feel rewarding to use.

Also, a lvl 1 pistol should sometimes miss, get jammed or whatever, while a lvl 6 pistol should be super accurate and almost never fail at doing what it does. Right now the difference is too minimal to be immersive.

 
think being educated yet failing to see what video games are. IS IT REAL LIFE MATE???? no its not so eitehr you shut up or pull up. zombies doesnt exist in reallife so why areyou not complaining about there zombies in a video game rather then in reallife? i mean do you see your whole essay or confusion and missrepritation? ludachrist. well take this example then, why does arrows break on zombies faces? steel arrows broke on rotten flesh must be logic right? ....

 
think being educated yet failing to see what video games are. IS IT REAL LIFE MATE???? no its not so eitehr you shut up or pull up. zombies doesnt exist in reallife so why areyou not complaining about there zombies in a video game rather then in reallife? i mean do you see your whole essay or confusion and missrepritation? ludachrist. well take this example then, why does arrows break on zombies faces? steel arrows broke on rotten flesh must be logic right? ....
Click to expand...
......

Picard.jpg

 
The problem is with feel and satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Except your suggestion would take away all the satisfaction from progression, finding better weapons, getting better perks, fighting tougher zombies...

No thanks

 
Non-argument. If you don't have access to a firearm from the first minute in the game then it is not easy. If you only have five rounds and there are 30 zombies, it is not easy. Take more than five seconds to formulate an actual rebuttal and get back to me.
Click to expand...
It still is easy.

Early game Zs, when there are no ferals are just pushovers.

And if you want to OHK them in the head, get proper perks and use proper weapons.

Magnum, hunting and sniper rifles OHK them just fine and so does slug shotgun.

 
What I didn't see was the use for any bow weapons. SMG's and Marksman rifles in pretty large numbers, are the end of bows. I just used the ammo from AK's for my marksman rifles.

That whole stage in the ranged abilities can be skipped.

 
Early game, when bullets are scarce, I save the ammo for deer/bears/wolves. (deer because they still runaway, and I don't wanna chase'em)

Bow/club for regular zeds though.

Bloodmoon, well, guns are faster at killing, but slow loading. I swap between bow/gun early on.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top