Feedback on 2.5

F

for4gerz

Refugee
I really like the new interface (normal hunger and thirst scales, the interface with the character armor menu has become much better, the only thing, I think, was to make all the slots for armor, clothing, etc. on one tab, placing the slots vertically to the right, left and below the character, approximately as it was in the times before the armor update).

It's great that clothing has returned to the game, but I'd like to see more unique items, like the running boots that reduced stamina consumption before, for example, and I'd also like to see items on the character, at least partially, like scarves, ponchos, etc.

The new zombie spitter and yeti models are awesome.

I really like the storm updates, both visual and gameplay-wise

I really like the reintroduction of the scent system

I'm excited to see the beehives and looking forward to the chicken coops!

The only thing I think remains questionable is the glass jars. It's great that they added a slider to adjust the chance of saving a jar, but the dew collector aspect is still unclear. It seems like it's producing water in glass jars from thin air. I had no problem with this when glass jars weren't in the game, but now it feels wrong. Maybe they should add a slot for empty glass jars to fill with water? Granted, I understand that would make the collector useless compared to the lake, but even as it stands, it feels wrong...

Overall, update 2.5 looks like a huge step forward and in the right direction to me, thanks, pimps!
 
No jars for the dew collector, please. Everyone who wanted jars back got their wish. Let those of us who don't want to deal with jars not have to. You can get plenty of water without even using the dew collectors. Let us use the dew collectors without dealing with jars. It's at least a medium compromise.
 
Riamus said:
No jars for the dew collector, please. Everyone who wanted jars back got their wish. Let those of us who don't want to deal with jars not have to. You can get plenty of water without even using the dew collectors. Let us use the dew collectors without dealing with jars. It's at least a medium compromise.
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I agree that this makes water collectors less useful, my only question is that dew collectors produce free jars for players who prefer to keep the jars after use. So the current version breaks the gameplay for those who want to keep the jars.
 
FenixMatariki said:
If you keep the jars after use why do you need a dew collector? It wont matter if you have 1 jar or 100, you would have infinite water regardless? Seems the dew collector just doesn't need to be built if you have reuse jars on?
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There are several reasons why dew collectors are still needed:
1) Using mods produces purified water immediately.
2) There's not always a lake nearby.
3) I like their appearance and the gameplay element.
 
for4gerz said:
I agree that this makes water collectors less useful, my only question is that dew collectors produce free jars for players who prefer to keep the jars after use. So the current version breaks the gameplay for those who want to keep the jars.
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Tough nookies. They whined and whined and whined incessantly, and to what end? They got the dumb empty jar added back into the game. They were not needed, they were and are, not wanted by the majority of players, and now, we see the continuing adventures' of the fum duckers now wanting the dew collectors (which are not broken) to be altered for the idiots that want empty jars to be a thing that ALL players have to deal with.

For me, just get rid of the empty jars already, make it clear they will never be back, and let us get on with zombie killing.
 
for4gerz said:
There are several reasons why dew collectors are still needed:
1) Using mods produces purified water immediately.
2) There's not always a lake nearby.
3) I like their appearance and the gameplay element.
Click to expand...
Deleted my reply as i felt i was not actually offering a meaningful comment. While i am against jars myself blind dismissal does not help the issue.

Jars being needed to be put into the dew collector would annoy the hell out of me, but i would understand if it was needed as a compromise. I left jar return at 0% and have been throwing jars out of my inventory since day one lol, however keeping them and crafting them for use would not be unacceptable, just annoying.

If it needs to be done for balance reasons, then it needs to be done. Fml. Arguing for jars instead of against feels bad man.
Post automatically merged:

WarMongerian said:
Tough nookies. They whined and whined and whined incessantly, and to what end? They got the dumb empty jar added back into the game. They were not needed, they were and are, not wanted by the majority of players, and now, we see the continuing adventures' of the fum duckers now wanting the dew collectors (which are not broken) to be altered for the idiots that want empty jars to be a thing that ALL players have to deal with.

For me, just get rid of the empty jars already, make it clear they will never be back, and let us get on with zombie killing.
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Unfortunately, really really unfortunately, the people who wanted jars and reusable jars were actually the majority.
 
WarMongerian said:
Tough nookies. They whined and whined and whined incessantly, and to what end? They got the dumb empty jar added back into the game. They were not needed, they were and are, not wanted by the majority of players, and now, we see the continuing adventures' of the fum duckers now wanting the dew collectors (which are not broken) to be altered for the idiots that want empty jars to be a thing that ALL players have to deal with.

For me, just get rid of the empty jars already, make it clear they will never be back, and let us get on with zombie killing.
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I don't think anyone should speak for the majority; this isn't very reasonable. Personally, I was happy with both the glass jar and no-jar option, but if jars are present in the game, they shouldn't be created out of thin air in the dew collector.
 
for4gerz said:
but if jars are present in the game, they shouldn't be created out of thin air in the dew collector.
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Fair enough. Remove the unneeded jar, empty or otherwise.

The dew collector isn't a broken game aspect, hence there is no reason to 'fix' it. I have to wonder now, what with the empty jars being needlessly put back into the game on friday, and already we now have talk of 'fixing' the unbroked dew collectors. That has got to be some kind of record.

Leave the dew collectors alone, there is nothing wrong with them.
 
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WarMongerian said:
Fair enough. Remove the unneeded jar, empty or otherwise.

The dew collector isn't a broken game aspect, hence there is no reason to 'fix' it. I have to wonder now, what with the empty jars being needlessly put back into the game on friday, and already we now have talk of 'fixing' the unbroked dew collectors. That has got to be some kind or record.

Leave the dew collectors alone, there is nothing wrong with them.
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For you, yes, for me, no. Unfortunately, this configuration still doesn't have a solution that satisfies everyone. Right now, you don't like the presence of glass jars, and I don't like their appearance out of thin air in the dew collectors. I'd be happy with a solution where the jars were removed again, but a huge number of players wouldn't be happy with that.
 
for4gerz said:
For you, yes, for me, no. Unfortunately, this configuration still doesn't have a solution that satisfies everyone. Right now, you don't like the presence of glass jars, and I don't like their appearance out of thin air in the dew collectors. I'd be happy with a solution where the jars were removed again, but a huge number of players wouldn't be happy with that.
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To be fair, let us look for the bottom line, as it were.

What is the underlying issue that the presence of the empty jars is supposed to fix/address?
 
WarMongerian said:
To be fair, let us look for the bottom line, as it were.

What is the underlying issue that the presence of the empty jars is supposed to fix/address?
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I think players liked the idea of being able to collect water from a lake and avoid dying of thirst, even with just a glass jar. In older versions, players could survive in the wilderness without looting towns, but when jars were removed, that became impossible.
 
Riamus said:
No jars for the dew collector, please. Everyone who wanted jars back got their wish. Let those of us who don't want to deal with jars not have to. You can get plenty of water without even using the dew collectors. Let us use the dew collectors without dealing with jars. It's at least a medium compromise.
Click to expand...

Oh interesting. I hadn't thought about a Dew Collector making infinite jars or if somebody was playing with 0% return.

I wonder if the jar return percentage could be used to indicate how the Dew Collector should perform.
 
for4gerz said:
I think players liked the idea of being able to collect water from a lake and avoid dying of thirst, even with just a glass jar. In older versions, players could survive in the wilderness without looting towns, but when jars were removed, that became impossible.
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I have not used this, but one of my friends did, he made buckets, and got water, and had to use these to fill a 'pool' that he made. We also have always had the ability to just 'drink' from a water source, by selecting an empty slot on our belts, and pressing the E key when in/near a water source have we not? Or was that added in later.

Given the nature/setting of this game, why would we need to worry about containers that can hold water? The zombie apocalypse has all the water bottles the world had right up to the end, and now they are suddenly supposed to be scarce? Why not just abstract them out, as in, they are every where, and so easily ready to hand, that you don't even need to think about them, just scoop up a few, where you need them, and toss them aside when done.

I personally, right now, have 8 packs of water bottles in my apartment. These are just the unopened ones, god only knows how many empty ones have not yet been bagged up and taken out to the dumpster.

Folks making a big deal out of an overabundance of readily available containers, and making the argument that the dew collector is "making them out of thin air", is completely wrong. In the game setting, they will not only be "everywhere", but in such plentitude, that we don't need to try to simulate any notional place without them.
 
for4gerz said:
The only thing I think remains questionable is the glass jars. It's great that they added a slider to adjust the chance of saving a jar, but the dew collector aspect is still unclear. It seems like it's producing water in glass jars from thin air. I had no problem with this when glass jars weren't in the game, but now it feels wrong. Maybe they should add a slot for empty glass jars to fill with water? Granted, I understand that would make the collector useless compared to the lake, but even as it stands, it feels wrong...
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Never bothers me. It also never bothers me that I don't have to find gas canisters to fill up with gasoline, or bowls when I make meat stew or oil containers when I make oil from shale or buckets to hold all that concrete I am making in the mixer.

Sure, I can spam craft a lot of dew collectors to get an infinite source of water - I also get a ton of heat generation that calls in screamers. I always look at the overall aspect that something brings to the game, not just one part of it.

I am around Day 12 I think of my current playthrough and haven't unlocked dew collectors yet, but water collection is really not an issue as I have a water source across the road from my base and I get enough jars either through looting or buying from the trader.
 
WarMongerian said:
I have not used this, but one of my friends did, he made buckets, and got water, and had to use these to fill a 'pool' that he made. We also have always had the ability to just 'drink' from a water source, by selecting an empty slot on our belts, and pressing the E key when in/near a water source have we not? Or was that added in later.

Given the nature/setting of this game, why would we need to worry about containers that can hold water? The zombie apocalypse has all the water bottles the world had right up to the end, and now they are suddenly supposed to be scarce? Why not just abstract them out, as in, they are every where, and so easily ready to hand, that you don't even need to think about them, just scoop up a few, where you need them, and toss them aside when done.

I personally, right now, have 8 packs of water bottles in my apartment. These are just the unopened ones, god only knows how many empty ones have not yet been bagged up and taken out to the dumpster.

Folks making a big deal out of an overabundance of readily available containers, and making the argument that the dew collector is "making them out of thin air", is completely wrong. In the game setting, they will not only be "everywhere", but in such plentitude, that we don't need to try to simulate any notional place without them.
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This contradicts my experience in the game, and the experience of many players in the current build. Many people now buy glass jars from merchants to avoid dying of thirst, and how does this compare to the fact that the character will then discard the jar as trash after use? Unfortunately, I don't yet have a perfect solution that would suit everyone. The only thing that could help is tainting the water in the lakes, so that it would have to be filtered through a homemade filter before boiling. In that case, collectors would be useful, as the water from them could be boiled directly. The jars themselves wouldn't be a problem, but the focus would be on the quality of the water.
 
for4gerz said:
Many people now buy glass jars from merchants to avoid dying of thirst, and how does this compare to the fact that the character will then discard the jar as trash after use?
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How is buying a "Glass Jar" any different from buying any drink, from any vending machine/trader? We already had the ability to get drinks.

In a post apocalypse world, the need for empty containers need not be considered. Trying to make containers a needed issue, in a world where there are many times as many of these container, laying about everywhere, than there are folks to use them, is a waste of time, amd adds nothing to the game.

The player shouldn't have to be bothered with empty containers, as they are litterly everywhere.
 
WarMongerian said:
How is buying a "Glass Jar" any different from buying any drink, from any vending machine/trader? We already had the ability to get drinks.

In a post apocalypse world, the need for empty containers need not be considered. Trying to make containers a needed issue, in a world where there are many times as many of these container, laying about everywhere, than there are folks to use them, is a waste of time, amd adds nothing to the game.

The player shouldn't have to be bothered with empty containers, as they are litterly everywhere.
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This is precisely what contradicts the need to buy empty glass jars from a merchant, but this is not the issue of principle for me, my issue is precisely that if I want to save the jars after use, the dew collector becomes an endless source of empty jars for me
 
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