PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

OR:

Let them keep the current system which may fit their eventual gold game better, as only they know what the complete gold game will look like eventually IMO.

Cheers

 
OR:
Let them keep the current system which may fit their eventual gold game better, as only they know what the complete gold game will look like eventually IMO.

Cheers
Click to expand...
I am just trying to understand the logic and trying to help them along with helpful advice. Yes, at the end of the day they can do what they want. It's still alpha. But I am not waiting until Gold to give my advice, because at that point, it's too late to potentially steer in a different direction. Anyway, I've said my piece. So, whether or not they care to heed any points is up to them now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why did you choose to run around and beat/fix POIs instead of just play? Honest question. Seems like now one would just have run around mind numbingly killing zombies to achieve the same goal, no? It really is all in how we perceive it honestly. So I'm not faulting you for how you play, just saying you didn't have to do it that way. Same thing everyone says about both alphas applies. No reason to speed towards unlocks. I'm guilty of it too. I just never once felt I had to beat/repair random POIs to achieve lvl 40. It usually happened without me realizing it to be honest.
Click to expand...
My point is not to say that I'm forced to do anything. I in fact do just play normally and don't rush for anything. My statement was in counter to the argument that A17 sucks because you are forced to kill zombies to get XP so you can unlock stuff and in A16 you could just play normally and learn by doing. I contend this is a false statement.

I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. I just feel it's a cop out to say A16 was so much better because it had nothing gated. It certainly did have things gated you just went about unlocking it in different ways.

Want concrete FAST in A17 you are forced to kill zombies.

Want concrete FAST in A16 you are forced to beat things with your stone axe.

I'm NOT saying I need to do anything FAST in either version. Just saying how it is.

 
My point is not to say that I'm forced to do anything. I in fact do just play normally and don't rush for anything. My statement was in counter to the argument that A17 sucks because you are forced to kill zombies to get XP so you can unlock stuff and in A16 you could just play normally and learn by doing. I contend this is a false statement.
I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. I just feel it's a cop out to say A16 was so much better because it had nothing gated. It certainly did have things gated you just went about unlocking it in different ways.

Want concrete FAST in A17 you are forced to kill zombies.

Want concrete FAST in A16 you are forced to beat things with your stone axe.

I'm NOT saying I need to do anything FAST in either version. Just saying how it is.
Click to expand...
Got it, I agree with that. On a side note, I never felt the need to rush to concrete in A16.4, and in A17.x concrete has not mattered because it's like tissue paper to damage stacking zeds lol. Joking aside, I rarely build anything now before concrete that is on the ground if it is meant to be a barrier between me and the zeds at all. If exploiting the pathing it hardly matter what you use in regards to mats.

 
For me, the joy of exploration is gone. All research now walks up to my front door. No more exploring for the minibike book, no more hoping for the xbow book early. Removing much of the need to explore just removes much of the joy of finding anything. Now I know how many Z's I need to get "X". Building used to be fun and I do appreciate that we have more choices now about Z block damage but solo, why bother? Great game, thousands of hours, but this iteration's skill system is just to bland for my tastes.
Click to expand...
Skills should not be given via xp. Books were better for exactly this reason, and is ultimately the problem. They could just ditch the INT tree, and put them back into books and 90% of players that are ticked off about it would be happy.

Just to be clear. I'm in the 10%. I would be happier with that change, but not happy. I despise that they chopped up the character's agility/stamina and spoon feed it back to you in the form of perks. I hated it in A16, and it only got much worse in A17. It feels like you're walking in jello all the time until you can get up to about lvl 100 and buy all the crap that makes you feel like you're playing ungimped.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. I just feel it's a cop out to say A16 was so much better because it had nothing gated. It certainly did have things gated you just went about unlocking it in different ways.

.
Click to expand...
Yes, we still unlocked things, yes in different ways. Much more satisfying and varied ways, I think that is the point.

 
Got it, I agree with that. On a side note, I never felt the need to rush to concrete in A16.4, and in A17.x concrete has not mattered because it's like tissue paper to damage stacking zeds lol. Joking aside, I rarely build anything now before concrete that is on the ground if it is meant to be a barrier between me and the zeds at all. If exploiting the pathing it hardly matter what you use in regards to mats.
Click to expand...
I agree. I can get away with totally wood structures for a long time. Only if you are dead set against using the AI pathing to your advantage do you absolutely need concrete in A17.

 
I agree. I can get away with totally wood structures for a long time. Only if you are dead set against using the AI pathing to your advantage do you absolutely need concrete in A17.
Click to expand...
Or change the blockdamage that zeds do in serverconfig.xml? Or is that not the point?

Cheers

 
I'm not following you here. What?
Click to expand...

Code: 
<property name="BlockDamagePlayer"				value="100" />				<!-- How much damage do players to blocks (percentage in whole numbers) -->
<property name="BlockDamageAI"					value="100" />				<!-- How much damage do AIs to blocks (percentage in whole numbers) -->
<property name="BlockDamageAIBM"				value="100" />				<!-- How much damage do AIs during blood moons to blocks (percentage in whole numbers) -->
<property name="XPMultiplier"					value="100" />				<!-- XP gain multiplier (percentage in whole numbers) -->
Cheers

 
Or change the blockdamage that zeds do in serverconfig.xml? Or is that not the point?
Click to expand...
It is yet another band-aid being supplied after the patient has had an amputation.

The root problem is the zombie AI's almost clairvoyant ability to detect and path straight to the weakest point in your defenses. Couple this with a huge block damage bonus for all other zombies hitting the same block, and also the bug where zombies can clip into each other (and thus ALL of them can attack the same block simultaneously) and you have the perfect storm of problems as far as the AI is concerned.

Reducing zombie block damage is a pathetic, lazy and amateurish way to fix this problem. Because it fails to address the main issue, the loss of FUN caused by the new AI. All the FUN bases people used to build are no longer practical because why spend days and weeks building your fort with equal defences on all sides when the new AI will attack at one or two block points and never vary from there?

 
It is yet another band-aid being supplied after the patient has had an amputation.
The root problem is the zombie AI's almost clairvoyant ability to detect and path straight to the weakest point in your defenses. Couple this with a huge block damage bonus for all other zombies hitting the same block, and also the bug where zombies can clip into each other (and thus ALL of them can attack the same block simultaneously) and you have the perfect storm of problems as far as the AI is concerned.

Reducing zombie block damage is a pathetic, lazy and amateurish way to fix this problem. Because it fails to address the main issue, the loss of FUN caused by the new AI. All the FUN bases people used to build are no longer practical because why spend days and weeks building your fort with equal defences on all sides when the new AI will attack at one or two block points and never vary from there?
Click to expand...
Take a chill pill and be glad they put in the setting for those getting a heartattack over the new AI that's still a work in progress.

Cheers

 
I would say its not a bandaid if it adds choice. you can choose your difficulty. a bandaid would be some hardcoded uneditable solution, or removal of some aspect till its fixed. the ability to mod settings to fit your desire is fantastic. take advantage of it instead of assuming everyone plays like you:)

Things I would really like to see:

1) Better AI (its getting there is what I understand)

2) Maybe Tiered Crafting Equipment. make them more efficient as you upgrade (as well as their skins)

3) Maybe offer color change (dyes) as a free mod slot additional to the 5 you can get max. remove any benefit from dyes to stats.

just my first thoughts. I just started playing this after watching streamers for years and really think overall this is a positive direction.

keep up the good work TFP

 
I would say its not a bandaid if it adds choice. you can choose your difficulty. a bandaid would be some hardcoded uneditable solution, or removal of some aspect till its fixed. the ability to mod settings to fit your desire is fantastic. take advantage of it instead of assuming everyone plays like you:)
Things I would really like to see:

1) Better AI (its getting there is what I understand)
Click to expand...
Better is always a question of definition.

For many, the only weakness in the AI in Alpha 16 was that the zombies have often run in circles. I never heard the zombies weren't smart enough for the players. I guess you just don't expect much intelligence from a zombie because they're basically brain dead.

What I definitely don't want are zombies whose behavior is completely random. That would be pretty much the worst thing for an efficient base building because you couldn't really plan anything anymore.

It would also, in my opinion, contradict the tower defense aspect of the game. In tower defense games the opponents are always predictable. They beat you in the end due thier sheer number and the fact that they get stronger and stronger.

2) Maybe Tiered Crafting Equipment. make them more efficient as you upgrade (as well as their skins)
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good idea to me.

I could imagine something like forges with more input slots or a workbench with more places in the queue. And overall more output slots.

3) Maybe offer color change (dyes) as a free mod slot additional to the 5 you can get max. remove any benefit from dyes to stats.
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound bad either.

For example, you could use camouflage patterns as color for weapons. If I look at how many people grind hours just to get a certain camouflage for example in COD there might be some interest.

Color is usually the first mod you put into a weapon because it's the easiest to find. Later it will be removed if you need the space to install a mod that has a bigger practical use.

According to what I read there are over 300 mods already in planning so the slots will always be well filled.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Better is always a question of definition.
For many, the only weakness in the AI in Alpha 16 was that the zombies have often run in circles. I never heard the zombies weren't smart enough for the players. I guess you just don't expect much intelligence from a zombie because they're basically brain dead.

What I definitely don't want are zombies whose behavior is completely random. That would be pretty much the worst thing for an efficient base building because you couldn't really plan anything anymore.
Click to expand...
Agreed, completely random would be really bad. Don't agree that A16 zombies had only one weakness

In A16 I once tried to be clever and build a big cone shaped funnel to get the zombies to a chokepoint where I put dart traps. See, I'm the intelligent one here and should be able to outsmart them, right? Forget it. As expected most horde nights they simply stormed from a different direction and my defense was useless. But even if the miracle happened and they came from the right side most of them just hit the side walls of the funnel. If they are as dump as a bullet I don't need brains, I need a bullet-proof west.

I think it was the last time in A16 I helped building the horde base. After that I let the miners in our group do the building.

Not saying the status quo is optimal. But blood moon had lost any fascination for me a long time ago. There simply was no sense doing anything else than a 4 sided cube. Now in A17 finally something I would call "crowd control" became important.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Roland... You stated...

"I typically play dead is dead. Endgame for me is restarting...."

Which, I think you've mentioned it before but it only I guess sank in.

It's no wonder why you don't understand casual players or builders.

Dead is Dead + Insane difficulty players really need their own forum discussion group.

Everyone else should have a separate one.

Not restricted to the groups. But General discussion groups that break out these conversational groups. Because frankly, they're diametrically opposed to each other.

 
Roland... You stated...
"I typically play dead is dead. Endgame for me is restarting...."

Which, I think you've mentioned it before but it only I guess sank in.

It's no wonder why you don't understand casual players or builders.

Dead is Dead + Insane difficulty players really need their own forum discussion group.

Everyone else should have a separate one.

Not restricted to the groups. But General discussion groups that break out these conversational groups. Because frankly, they're diametrically opposed to each other.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a good point. Some people want "end-game" to mean "continued entertaining/fun content" after achieving high level and equipment. I'd even wager most, but definitely a meaningful amount of people. This is why colonies are such an important addition to the game I personally want, or at least some endless or nearly endless RNG mode where you can continue to progress in some form or fashion.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top