PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Ouch Quit It]

Agreed there were alot of good things....but some systems were removed and worse ones were put in. Magazines..totally useless. Traders..I NEVER used them in A16...now you have to have one as a neighbor. A17 took away choices for the player. Loss of Biomes..another hit to gameplay and choice. Again time will tell....

Im sure the its an alpha crowd will be chiming in soon too, as well as the you dont like change and you are stuck in your A16 ways...but thats getting a bit stale.

Even the Forums are quiet as compared to earlier releases.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Longer than A16 did...

No release is going to please everyone and any change always results in an uptick in negative reviews because no matter how good the change it will still rub the person who liked it better before the wrong way and those angry people are more likely to write in about it than happy or nonplussed people.

I'm not discounting your personal feelings that A17 turned you off and you are hoping that A18 will turn things around. I know many are feeling that as well. However, since we are speaking generally, generally A17 has had more staying power than A16 did. It's easy to remember the year of A16.4 rather than the 1-3 months of A16experimental - A16.3 which were not all happiness and rainbows. People were ticked about the loss of crafting experience, the loss of smell, and the horribly OP stealth abilities of the player which made nights an absolute joke. Zombie pathing was horrible as well. A16 had its own fair share of posts unfavorably comparing it with A15 which was everyone's fondly remembered belle of the ball.

I know there are still some very vocal people who are still very much against the design changes in A17. I think most generally unhappy people are mainly just upset about RWG, zombies with perfect information, and performance. I think that if TFP can get these three general complaints fixed and then keep going the route of option menu configurations for other issues that are more personal preference and gamestyle issues they will be in the clear as far as general customer satisfaction goes.

The hardline player that has one favorite feature that they believed was a "core feature" to the game and will die hating TFP for removing it until with their last breath they utter a curse at Madmole just cannot be the majority. I don't believe it. I do agree with you that we won't fully know the repercussions of all these changes until the final 17.x or possibly A18 and see whether people come back to see and then stay. A17 was the first release where the overall number of players did not break all previous records but the high plateau above 20k is a new record so who can say what it all really means.

Fair enough. And I appreciate the numbers. Though I'm kind of curious of that A17 being drilled into. That seems to overlap maybe September through October, which likely saw an uptick in A16.4 with people refreshing and renewing their hype for the A17 launch. Either way, how that graph looks leading all the way up to A18 I think is going to be the most telling.

That graph is very clear on I assume how many people are playing, I'll absolutely give you that Roland. But counts and statistics are also REALLY easy to use as tools that are unfair. I don't know if there was a 7D2D sale somewhere between September and January. I don't know if there's A16 overlap in that usage spike. No idea what the real details of that graph is. So I do have to take the graph with a slight grain of salt.

Then again, the long spike of people's attentions being held may be more indicative of how long it took for people to grasp A17 as opposed to how long it took to grasp A16.

To be even more fair, you could probably combine A14, A15, and A15 averages and compare it to A17. Totally not trying to cheat here be unfair. But A17 was a DEEP change to how we play and tackle 7 days to die. At least A15 and A16 updates, to me, was more content and stability than fully revamped core features.

I dunno. Numbers, totally fair to throw numbers at me considering my points. However the numbers... might need to be tempered by the feels. Maybe? Maybe not.

And sorry, my lame ass skimmed a bit. Seems like we agree on "what the hell does it all really mean" point. And the future will be the real story teller.

Thanks for reading Roland. And for the feedback.

 

[Roland]

It’s true that we read into graphs mostly what we hope they mean rather than what they actually mean. As someone who honestly was happy with A15 and then dissatisfied with A16 and who now considers A17 the best version of the game to date I hope those graphs mean great things.

The one thing I DARE NOT say is that the graph indicates people are happily playing A17.

 

[Odetta]

It’s true that we read into graphs mostly what they hope they mean rather than what they actually mean. As someone who honestly was happy with A15 and then dissatisfied with A16 and who now considers A17 the best version of the game to date I hope those graphs mean great things.
The one thing I DARE NOT say is that the graph indicates people are happily playing A17.

Is there a way to see only vanilla players? One where no mods or modlets are used?

 

[Jackelmyer]

It’s true that we read into graphs mostly what they hope they mean rather than what they actually mean. As someone who honestly was happy with A15 and then dissatisfied with A16 and who now considers A17 the best version of the game to date I hope those graphs mean great things.
The one thing I DARE NOT say is that the graph indicates people are happily playing A17.

lol. Probably a wise move. To date huh? I don't think I could call any version best to date. They've been so varied. A17 definitely has it on content I think. A16.4, to me, was better game play.

 

[Pille]

Longer than A16 did...

No release is going to please everyone and any change always results in an uptick in negative reviews because no matter how good the change it will still rub the person who liked it better before the wrong way and those angry people are more likely to write in about it than happy or nonplussed people.

I'm not discounting your personal feelings that A17 turned you off and you are hoping that A18 will turn things around. I know many are feeling that as well. However, since we are speaking generally, generally A17 has had more staying power than A16 did.

Not sure if the term 'more staying power' is correct. A16 attracted more players in the same amount of time...

Let's repeat the measurement by an unbiased person - me. ;-D Let's change the time window slightly and measure areas under the curves. Both white areas (A and B) have almost identical sizes and encompass the same period of time (192 or 193 pixel length), so they don't have to be taken into account to compare the player counts. If you consider only the dark areas you see that the area beneath the A16 curve is slightly larger than that under the section which represents A17. Thus A16 has had more staying power than A17. ;P

It’s true that we read into graphs mostly what they hope they mean rather than what they actually mean. As someone who honestly was happy with A15 and then dissatisfied with A16 and who now considers A17 the best version of the game to date I hope those graphs mean great things.
The one thing I DARE NOT say is that the graph indicates people are happily playing A17.

Too late Roland, too late.

 

[HungryZombie]

@Z-Pooh-Bear I'm not sure if you know but there is a console command to set the FOV to what you want. If your friends are getting sick try that and see if it helps.

 

[DEADication]

It’s true that we read into graphs mostly what we hope they mean rather than what they actually mean. As someone who honestly was happy with A15 and then dissatisfied with A16 and who now considers A17 the best version of the game to date I hope those graphs mean great things.
The one thing I DARE NOT say is that the graph indicates people are happily playing A17.

I check all available data daily, and i must say that you are correct... in saying people interpret what they want to see.

Or they use simplified graphs or cherry picked data to push their agenda.

If you take into account number of units sold and skew the data accordingly, I am not convinced that A15 wasn't the most popular alpha per owner participation. Short of the performance improvement (for me anyway) and generally much better graphics in A17, A15 was my favourite post A10 (Unity 4) version.

 

[RestInPieces]

If you are talking about A17 popularity, don't forget to also take the 1.5 year delay into account. There are too many reasons why these patch cycles are harmful for a game or any piece of software for that matter. Anyway...

@OP (will only touch some points)

-Zombies were seen as xp loot bags the moment kill xp was added to them. The new system just made it more obvious because xp became more essential being a universal way to get better at/unlock nearly everything. Best era was when you were just getting weapon xp by hitting them. Kill xp was always a bad idea. One of the worst in the game's history imo.

-In A16 you could reach "end-game content" within the first few days. That's terrible from any perspective. There's no use in adding any amount of additional end-game content if existing content isn't paced. That said, I don't think that static levels gating essential recipes were a good way to pace progression. Combined with the above, it's no wonder people immediately complained about A17 being a "grind". They could gate most recipes behind exploration in a much more interesting and controlled way than before.

-Sandbox definition is not random. They all have common elements such as world malleability, minimal player limitations restrictions, not structured/linear gameplay. This game is not a pure sandbox, but obviously has some sandbox elements. But, anyway, these technicallities are of not much importance here. As said above, the game didn't pace itself well - that's why people were so desperate for end-game content.

-There are many ways to add end-game content to this game without level scaling, silly legendaries, or expensive/very hard to implement content like colonies etc.

 

[hotpoon]

Fair enough. And I appreciate the numbers. Though I'm kind of curious of that A17 being drilled into. That seems to overlap maybe September through October, which likely saw an uptick in A16.4 with people refreshing and renewing their hype for the A17 launch. Either way, how that graph looks leading all the way up to A18 I think is going to be the most telling.

A lot of people got 7dtd for free right before the A17 release via HumbleBundle, and at that point it still had glowing reviews on Steam, so likely encouraged a lot of new people to try it.

Some people have gone back to playing A16. Could be a lot of people. Could be only a few. The graph doesn't tell us.

So, I think interpreting the graph in A17's favour is a bit optimistic.

Another bit of stats here:

https://steamcharts.com/app/251570#1m

shows the numbers rapidly tapering off over the past month though. If I'm reading this correctly, we've lost 2396 players in the last 30 days. I know I'm one of them. I decided not to play again until something is done about the AI.

Regarding the OP, I agree with every single point you've made, except the 2d / 3d texture thing, because I don't know what that is. I just know that I do prefer A17's graphics.

 

[Kalarro]

I agree. And that doesnt mean I dont like a17. But all that effort could have been focused on other things without the need to redo things that were working fine (some even better)

 

[Ghostlight]

TOTALLY agree Bud !!! They lost their vision to a different kind of sandbox game than every other game out there. Maybe it was rushed or a need to close out this game for a 2.0 version or whatever other project they have planned, but A17 totally made the game whacked! Now its just like every other game out there. Nothing different...a grindy, force you to go one direction, arcade perk ridden, smaller map game. A17 was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel...WELL...the power just went out.

Completely agree. Now I am 52 years old. I have played a ton of video games since 1979. It has been my main hobby all that time. To an obsessive level if I am being honest. Ask me 6 months ago and I would have told you that 7 Days was my favorite video game of all time. And I did not say that lightly. Sadly that is no longer true. It is now merely a great game. And I have played a lot of great game. That is a major drop in my feelings for the game. It is absolutely a shadow if its former self. Heart-breaking.

- - - Updated - - -

Longer than A16 did...

Your graph means nothing. Humble Bundle more or less gave the game away to a ton of new players right before that peak, plus we KNOW from these very forums that a record number of people have reverted to playing A16.4

 

[Ringkeeper]

as much as i like grafic updates to a game... putting the focus on that most before all the major problems and feature are included is... meh.

Most "hardcore" player started with the game when we had ♥♥♥♥ grafic and blocks. And? Was fun as hell. Could also play it nice on my potato PC at work in the breaks.... now kinda impossible.

Still with all the work on grafics it looks meeeh, special if you see what a mod like HDHQ can do.

Also Zombie wise, we had waaaay more in the game, as they where ♥♥♥♥ grafic and not that demanding.

 

[Roland]

Your graph means nothing. Humble Bundle more or less gave the game away to a ton of new players right before that peak, plus we KNOW from these very forums that a record number of people have reverted to playing A16.4

Well, it’s not MY graph. It’s the graph of Steam charts. Secondly, it doesn’t mean nothing. It most definitely means something. I shared my view of it and admitted that I could be wrong and acknowledged that I am hopeful that the game is doing well. Here is what is interesting about your points.

1) You want to give credit to A16 completely for its own swell on the chart but want to give most of A17’s swell to A16 as well. Maybe most of A16’s rise to 32k players was a bunch of people reverting back to A15....

2) There were at least two previous Humble Bundles that happened during A16’s year and a half cycle that didn’t even cause a blip—not to mention both the winter and summer sale happening all while the game was overwhelmingly positive. Looking at the graph there is no evidence of any upward movement at all from any of these sales and yet you want to give credit for the most recent spike to humble bundle.

3) I don’t think we know for certain from these forums that a record number of overall people from the player base reverted to A16.

I can see how your interpretations helps you keep the hope alive that TFP will somehow be forced to reverse some of their decisions.

 

[Roland]

as much as i like grafic updates to a game... putting the focus on that most before all the major problems and feature are included is... meh. Most "hardcore" player started with the game when we had ♥♥♥♥ grafic and blocks. And? Was fun as hell. Could also play it nice on my potato PC at work in the breaks.... now kinda impossible.

Still with all the work on grafics it looks meeeh, special if you see what a mod like HDHQ can do.

Also Zombie wise, we had waaaay more in the game, as they where ♥♥♥♥ grafic and not that demanding.

I can agree with this sentiment because, like you, I value fun gameplay over graphics. The devs had as one of their goals early on to have one of the best graphically pleasing voxel games on the market. That goal has definitely been a driving force and a large portion of their development.

The problem with that, of course, is that good voxel graphics are much less than good static world graphics and most gamers are not discerning enough to notice the game is voxel and to make allowances for that—especially since it no longer appears voxel like Minecraft which is what your average gamer would expect a voxel game to look like.

I’d be pleased with lower graphic demands and larger numbers of zombie myself but it isn’t my project being shown off to the world.

 

[Guppycur]

The game is less fun than it was before.

Less fun doesn't mean no fun, so those charts are useless for both sides of the arguments.

It is this guppy's opinion that Tfp needs to seriously REconsider their current direction, and seriously consider the negative impact a17 has had on the existing player base.

That is all.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Just to put it out there, I really was looking at this to be a look back and comparison to what I felt was important and good in this game in A16.4. Purely as an exercise of reflection.

I think most of us here can agree that 7 Days To Die has provided some of the most fun and amazing game play than most any other game we'd come across in a while. I don't hear that sentiment as much these days here on the forums or in conversation.

Would be really cool if anyone else had some reflections, good and bad, of what was good about prior 7D2D versus what we have today. Or what we have today which is way better than what we had in the past. Reflections, and ideally, without malice, I think are great feedback and probably needed these days.

 

[Guppycur]

It's still by far my favorite game (not of all time, Neverwinter Nights has that honor) and it's the only one I play.

 

[xXBadDreamXx]

alot of the problem are still just a matter of balance. i've given the game an honest playthrough on a very easy mode server and have gotten to lvl 125 so far ( i also like playing on easy mode cause i like the building and resource gathering and mining parts of the game more than the zombie killing but i still do enjoy some zombie killing)

- guns are too common and the amount of low quality guns seems redundant. loot should scale better with level. the amount of compound bows is ridiculous

- its easier to exploit the AI now and because zombies are so strong people feel you can either avoid the horde entirely or exploit it with a maze type base design . i think this was a key issue that they were trying to fix but its more exagerated now than ever before.

- about 30% of the perks are pretty useless and dont seem to fit in the game very well

- gamestage seems weird. around lvl 85 and 200 gamestage (rough numbers) i seem to have hit the max amount of irradiated and ferals. maybe the amount has increased but it just seems the same now at lvl 125 and 325 gamestage. like ive hit the max and it isnt getting harder but i wasnt even half way through my level progression. theres alot i dont understand about the gamestage stuff so ill leave it at that.

- the old mining system was alot more fun

- living off the land perk is not so good and the new farming is not so good. people that enjoyed farming enjoyed the micromanagement of making new seeds and replanting. farming has always been easy you just made it so players need to waste points in it and made it even easier...i enjoyed replanting. the entire farming system brings nothing of benefit to the game

it isnt all bad though. the vehicles are great. all of them are fun and great things to strive for in the game. they need major fixing with collisions and appearance of the wheels or rotors spinning for other people but im sure itll come in time.

-more animals please but just give us less meat from them...or maybe more frequent animal repopulating. i dont want more meat just more fun hunting trips. shooting an animal is like a huge bonus and super fun. everyone loves it. on multiplayer servers with multiple people exploring, it tends to get quite rare to encounter animals.

i havent played 17.2 yet but im sure alot of balance issues have allready been addressed

 

[RipClaw]

Would be really cool if anyone else had some reflections, good and bad, of what was good about prior 7D2D versus what we have today. Or what we have today which is way better than what we had in the past. Reflections, and ideally, without malice, I think are great feedback and probably needed these days.

I try to describe how my gameplay looked like in Alpha 16 and what I loved about it.

One of my favorite activities is building bases. Bases that are purely for fighting the horde as well as the bases with the workstations and the storage.

To build them I had to collect a lot of resources. In Alpha 16 I spent many hours in the mines. That was always very relaxing.

In addition, I often drove around the area and mined the surface resources and the rocks. This usually involved visiting my traders and looking for new ones while uncovering parts of the map I hadn't been before.

In the late game I rarely went into the buildings but now and then I visited buildings that I had never seen before or that I knew would keep me busy for a while.

What I liked so much about the Alpha 16 was that it offered all these possibilities but didn't force me in any way. This freedom was what I loved the most.