PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

A. I kinda just meant we didn't have a damage bonus IRL if we start punching something. I'd rather neither of us have it, really.

B. To be clear, I'd like digging and jumping to be an option just like running.

C. Someone has now pointed out to me the Better Balance Mod. I don't like all the things it does, so I'm working on getting the bits I want from it.

 
Random is random so that is possible but I would ask whether you are judging them by the outside or actually going inside. I have found quite a few updated and new POI’s that once I go inside they are not what I would call a dungeon crawl. Yes there are the obligatory cabinet sleepers and maybe some barricades strung across a hallway but otherwise very straightforward and easily cleared. I wonder if people see the new POIs and just skip assuming they are all dungeons.
My last couple maps have seemed more like 75% which for me is plenty of simple places to duck into or clear quickly without getting into a 30-45 minute long adventure.
I've explored most of them (at least in my home town.) And you are right that some places that look like a dungeon aren't once you get inside. And I love the dungeons, but they can get a bit tedious at times because they're slow to clear.

That being said, I do really look forward to horde nights now (change of pace) whereas in A16 I didn't (hordes nights were more of an inconvenient interruption in A16). Now I look forward to them for the faster-paced, one-dimensional lead-slinging action and xp/points.

From my personal perspective, I think overall the balance of the game (such as daily survival vs. tower defense) has improved dramatically in A17. It's the most complete game experience IMHO to date.

 
You know what else attracts flies? A ♥♥♥♥ game.
Mincing words rarely improves behavior. They need clear and direct feedback to understand what is wrong, why it is wrong, and how to fix it. My goal is to fix the problem, not stroke their egos and pretend to be their friend.
Ok, so your advice as a trained psychologist is to shout obscenities at people to get their attention and cooperation. That definitely works with employees of burger restaurants in the US I've heard. Nice to hear from an expert that this works even for situations where you can't easily get someone fired. :fat:

 
No, it's not.I'm a club person and I still carry one if I can.
I am a Sledge person, always have been since I started playing this game many alphas ago, until A17. Switched the Club in A17 on trying both (fully specced), and never looked back. With Flurry and Skullcrusher I can dash into a group of Feral Irradiated and head bust most of them by the time my buddy is just ending his first Sledge swing. In fact he's rather annoyed because his Heavy Metal knock down rarely procs because I have killed them all with the Club.

 
Psychology has really come on leaps and bounds hasn't it? Apparently its now linked with the tourettes association and there are so many more "trained" psychologists to shout at those desperately in need of obscenity!

 
They need clear and direct feedback to understand what is wrong, why it is wrong, and how to fix it.
Which can actually be done without throwing a tantrum...

You should also understand that you are not the center of the universe and what you want in the game may in fact not align with everyone's viewpoint.

Of course I could be wrong, I'm not an trained psychologist....

 
You know what else attracts flies? A ♥♥♥♥ game.
Mincing words rarely improves behavior. They need clear and direct feedback to understand what is wrong, why it is wrong, and how to fix it. My goal is to fix the problem, not stroke their egos and pretend to be their friend.
I'd think you would know about how when you confront people aggressively they tend to go into defensive mode and stop listening to what you are saying and start defending even a faulty position.

 
Disappointed With 17

Sure, some of the features brought to us in the new build are cool, and have been long saught after; however, this game has been in development since 2013? -And is still in alpha...although some major improvements have been made, it pains me to turn on 17 with optimism, to find myself nearly loosing all interest in an early access I was once proud to invest my time and money in.

Even with all of the "exciting new changes" the release of 17 has brought forward, the overall feel of the game is somehow even less stable than the prior build's and has crippled the overall enjoyment of the game for me, my friends, and family.

How is it possible? Well lets discuss it:

Where did "Field of View" go? Why are we now defaulted to a disorienting view that makes me feel like I'm looking through a magnifying glass the whole time I'm playing? Where did the "toggle sprint" go? Why do we now have to hold down a button the whole time for "turbo"? Since when did optimizing the game for controllers mean leaving keyboard and mouse users in the dust? I get it. The game is also on consoles and understandably there was a push to increase controller support, but why was it done in such a way that keyboard and mouse were neglected / negatively impacted?

Sure, there are some improved textures, but why do I have almost no control over most of my games video options? Where did contrast / brightness go? Now other players just boost there gamma 100%-200% to effectively "cheat" and see in the dark and dominate the players who are trying to actually play the game correctly...I know people can tork their displays and graphic cards around this, but having an in-game option that allows it to be abused is simply opening the door for others to take advantage of.

How...and why do the zombies now stutter their animations even worse than they did in the previous builds? Often this causes misleading players in combat? I don't mind difficult, I can respect difficult, but melee has become an all around bad idea, primarily do to the jittery and unpredictable animations programmed into the base code of the game. What was wrong with the last build's animation utilization? Why was this changed, and for worse performance? It's like the animations reset halfway through at times, or are constantly out of sync with their relative actions.

For example, more often than not animations and actions don't sync properly, giving the perspective of a false delay with expected "cause an effect". The zombie swings and misses, you swing - but then take damage from a swing they already cycled a full animation for...

Try again? Sure, you swing - but even though you timed it properly with the animation, your bat hums right through the zombie's skull as if it were a ghost and the game registers what should have been a home run to the zombie's dome, it counts as a miss before the animation could catch up...

Trying to time attacks and predict dodging around a fray in 16 wasn't perfect, but playable. You could navigate melee combat or even begin to master it (even with some of the hiccups) after a few tries. However, in 17, don't bother. You will just die a victim to poor design.

Also, base building and leveling was a major boon in the previous version. The best survivors on a server would level, play smart, stealthy, and quiet - while building and stocking up masterly creative bases, often deep underground. However, in 17 - the zeds seemingly cut through concrete like it's an appetizer before gobbling your brains, leaving your few treasures easily exposed to any passer by. Many players now choose to simply float around a pond or half deep body of water as that seems to be the key to survival over living in nuclear fallout bunker build deep along the heart of the earth's crust...

Why!? Making changes to allow zombies to break through blocks easier, sure I'm on board. They should be able to dig through the ground too, absolutely! However, they shouldn't be able to eat, chew, and claw their way through Fort Knox in a single blood moon, when a player can drift around in floaties in a body of water and simply wait out the danger. That kind of ruins the point of intricate base building, at least against zeds.

This has made base building a much less important priority, and thus negatively impacted many who enjoyed planning, prepping, and constructing intricate fortresses and bunkers, which now equate to little more than a hurtle in the zeds race to your brains. Seriously...Base building and altering POI's to make them zombie resistant was provided a lot of thought and fun for survivor play styles like mine. For some of us who suck at FPS's we could turn the tables with a well defended and thought out base, which made the game so unique among the survival genres.

However, maybe it's because of the new engine, I don't know - 17 makes 7 Days feel more like a badly ported console game than it does the newest update to one of my once most favorite survival games.

You guys did an awesome job with the previous version, and some of the new features 17 brought forward are good, but to me, overall the bad outweighs the good. Hopefully you guys will take a look at large amount of negative reviews on steam since the release of 17, read over the discussions thoroughly, and make the next version (or eventual first full release of the game) less like 17 and more like 16.

I was expecting 17 to be more like a polished 16 with a significant amount of additional content, and although 17 looks nicer, all and all it's a disappointment to me and my circle of once was 7 Day gamers. We will try it a bit more, but many of us have already returned to the previous version we prefer and love, and some others have have altogether quit playing. Depending on how future development goes, I may possibly end up joining them. I should hope not as 7 Days has a tremendous amount of potential and as my steam hours will show - I've enjoyed the previous versions of the game immensely.

Fun Pimps, I love you guys, I do. I've been a big fan and a supporter for many years. I've helped fund, and purchase several copies of the early access to help expand your network and support to get this game developed. However, this this newest release is sub par, and all around not enjoyable to me nor my friends. We have been waiting for a final stable and fun version of this game with all of the promised features for years, and with the release of 17, we're clearly still not there yet and possibly still a long ways out.

I sincerely hope Fun Pimps developers will research the feedback and take the negative ones into as much consideration as the positive ones. Hopefully, the next release will be truer to the game's original feel and play-style.

Thanks for your time and efforts,

A Frustrated Longtime Supporter and Survivor,

Shackelfourd aka "Der_Nate_Kerl"

7 Days Hours.jpg

 
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I'd think you would know about how when you confront people aggressively they tend to go into defensive mode and stop listening to what you are saying and start defending even a faulty position.
Haha ! You're an overtrained psychologist :)

 
You should actually play with the perks instead of saying stuff like this.
you can make your sledgehammer into an AOE stun weapon. It's insanely powerful. Slap an anti-rad mod in there and you can tank tier V quest POIs with ease.

In fact, they will stun other players if you get too close. My friend and I have been knocked over and stunned by my husband's hammer more than once, if we try to melee while he is!
hmm... I did not notice that to be the case. I did play with basically all the perks on creative. and a lot of the perks seem broken too. I'll check again when I get the chance.

 
If I wanted to play Diablo, I would be playing Diablo, if I wanted to play Borderlands I would do so. Turning 7D2D into an RPG loot fest is a horrible idea, you have done nothing but slow down the game pace, since I bought it via Paypal in 2013.

I used to be able to lure my friends on (I'm almost 40 years, so it's not that easy to gather "the boys" anymore, we used to be able to do something meaningful in one evening, with a new seed. Today we need 100 hours at least, to get a cool build done.

Now you add this mind numbingly boring loot grind on top of the XP grind, I stopped playing modern RPG's and MMO's because of this very reason, hell even stopped playing FPS games, because they've also turned into RPG games, with unlocks and level BS.

New meta makes me feel like a driving salesman, just driving around, waiting for RNGeesus to deliver the items I need for sale, boring boring boring, base building is completely pointless meta wise, it steals my XP, you advertise as tower defence, in a tower defence game, you get XP for your base kills...

I completely lose my lust to keep going in a seed now, it's just a boring grind, it feels like work, not entertainment...

And now you want to add a grind for legendary gear on top of that? No thanks, you just keep making the meta worse and worse in IMHO.

Resource gathering slowed down a lot, takes forever to build a solo big concrete base now, I'm not spending 500 hours in one seed, it's ridiculous. I like to build very large, it's just not feasible to do legit solo anymore...

Not to mention that it's faster to mine rocks and grind em to sand in a mixer, that it is to actually dig up sand, makes no sense!

- POI's with big underground super labs - immersion breaking

- Radiated zombies - immersion breaking (If you know anything about biology, this just can't happen, radiation splits cells, and the Z would not

be able to move, no matter what virus it's infected with, in fact the virus will die too, it will never be sci-fi because it's not plausible)

- Cops vomiting 30 meters - immersion breaking

- Birds vomiting 30 meters - immersion breaking

- Z's destroying blocks with fingernails - immersion breaking

- Z's detecting you thru 5 layers on concrete - immersion breaking

- POI respawned because of quest - immersion breaking

- Houses having weird loot rooms - immersion breaking

- Stopping to select perks - immersion breaking

- Thinking about perks to select - immersion breaking

- having a forge inside an indestructible trader - immersion breaking (In fact none of the workstations at the trader should work, it negates your

level gates anyway, and just adds a new form of RNG!)

- Never meeting other people - immersion breaking (yes I know bandits are coming, but would be nice if you could also meet some friendly

ones, this will prolly be my saving grace for mod to my liking when this game is done, because I surely don't agree at at all with where you are

taking this game I want romero style Z's and a world like in the walking dead, it's ingrained deep in me, what zombies are from TV, when you

stray from that, it ruins my immersion, I suggest presets like on an equalizer, TFP, Romero and whatever others you can come up with,

because the settings can be quite daunting for newer players.)

- Dogs making me bleed thru a full set of armor - immersion breaking

- vending machines in private homes - immersion breaking

- Electricity working in POI's - immersion breaking

- Lights showing me the path inside POI's - immersion breaking

- Wood blocks with 10K HP to try and keep me in your POI maze - immersion breaking

- Windows made from wood, not glas again to try and keep me in your maze - immersion breaking

- POI former inhabitants defences, makes no sense compared to how you are supposed to beat Z's - immersion breaking (Would make more

sense in a regular Remoro style universe)

- screamer hordes - immersion breaking

- The heat system in general - immersion breaking

- having to open the menu to see if I'm below the treshold, for not wasting any food or drink if I consume it - immersion breaking

- Mods and perks giving super human abilities - immersion breaking

- POI's Z's respawn - immersion breaking

- amount of Z's inside a POI - immersion breaking

- Time of day affecting the light indoor, in a completely light sealed room - immersion breaking (The lighting system is still horrible, It has

nothing to do with how light acts in the real world, it's a super important part of making things look good, almost being retina burned by my

concrete base during day, is a very strange art choice, hell great architects has said that Architecture is breaking of

lightwaves in interesting patterns.

- Electricity - Turn wires into a paint on visible when wielding the wire tool, would make the block conductive when applied, this would fix most

of the tedious cablemanagement OCD people has to do.

Turrets should be able to shoot out of arrow slits and other blocks that does not break the LOS.

Electric doors with remote control ability

Remote view of cameras

Neon letters and /()-+.,=&%?!"#

Neon signs

Block creator : This would give the game almost endless possibilities, so let's say you want to create a custom block, it opens up a world that is 1000 x 1000 x 1000, in this world you will build you block from all the blocks already existing in the game, and when you are done, the game will bake your creation with appropriate hitbox into a 1x1x1 block you can place in the world.

This combined with a way customize incline and ramp angles on blocks would be great!

Love all the new decorations, love the new vehicles, love a lot of things about this alpha and have played the game for over 3K hours, I don't say these things out of spite, I say them because I care about the game, used to care a lot more tho :/

There is many more ideas but I'm just not feeling like putting in the effort...

THis forum is a standing joke in the 7D2D community, people will laugh in your face if you talk about coming here to share your ideas, the snarky remarks from devs and moderators, is what stopped me from coming here years ago.

Remember a fish rots from the head down...

 
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Abysmal Experience

So... Just hit my first A17 death... A17.1 B9 stable is what I'm currently running.

I died... By lag... Went into a factory of some sort looking to find a pickaxe.

I don't know how the volumes are setup in some of these POIs... But I tripped all of them I think. Had 40 zombies from two different levels, one level I hadn't been on yet, start raining down on me.

My sweet PC lasted about 10 minutes into the fight. And I just couldn't barely move at one point.

PCs a mid range PC on medium settings. Definitely handled this type of thing fine in A16. Dear lord.... That was just heart wrenching. I was dancing around this true horde just fine. But just couldn't keep the frame rate up to handle it...

Makes it to my top 5 least favorite deaths, definitely in the top 10. Really hoping this performance tuning stuff lands A17.2. Was hoping for A17.2 sooner than later. Buuuuut.... Take your time guys. No rush. :-p

For what it's worth, 7D2D has both least favorite and absolute favorite game experiences of all time in the list of experiences. :-D

This one... This... Just hurt. lol. Blah.

 
Custom block creation is easy now in 7days, FYI.

Takes but a few minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and btw, your entire post was a great example of a productive criticism post. Except the last paragraph. You kind of did it to yourself.

 
Psychology has really come on leaps and bounds hasn't it? Apparently its now linked with the tourettes association and there are so many more "trained" psychologists to shout at those desperately in need of obscenity!

I'd think you would know about how when you confront people aggressively they tend to go into defensive mode and stop listening to what you are saying and start defending even a faulty position.

Which can actually be done without throwing a tantrum...
You should also understand that you are not the center of the universe and what you want in the game may in fact not align with everyone's viewpoint.

Of course I could be wrong, I'm not an trained psychologist....

Ok, so your advice as a trained psychologist is to shout obscenities at people to get their attention and cooperation. That definitely works with employees of burger restaurants in the US I've heard. Nice to hear from an expert that this works even for situations where you can't easily get someone fired. :fat:
I suspect you guys have a fundamentally flawed notion of what a psychologist does for a living.

I am not your therapist, I do not care about your childhood trauma, and I am definitely not here to help with your Oedipus complex.

I am talking about the mesolimbic dopamine reward circuit, which is the part of the brain that determines if an experience is fun or not.

I am talking about that little rush you get when your slot machine pays out, or you find a rare drop in a game.

That feeling is what keeps people coming back for more, not mindless grinding for hours on end and spending perk points.

I am simply stating that the old system has a much better psychological reward system, thus a richer and more rewarding game experience.

It should not be difficult to grasp that bad game design makes the game experience less rewarding and hence less fun.

This does not mean that everything about A17 is terrible, there are plenty of other improvements that are welcome additions, but the progression/perk system has definitely taken a major step backward.

This also does not preclude some people who, for whatever reason, happen to like shallow/repetitive/grindy tasks from enjoying the game as it is currently configured.

That is great, you be you.

But that subjective experience does not in any way invalidate what I am saying, which applies to the vast majority of people with normally functioning brains.

If anyone wants to have a cogent discussion on any of the salient points I brought up, go for it.

In the mean time, everyone can stop clutching their pearls and pretending that they have never heard mildly salty language on the internet before.

 
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Custom block creation is easy now in 7days, FYI.
Takes but a few minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and btw, your entire post was a great example of a productive criticism post. Except the last paragraph. You kind of did it to yourself.
Surprise, a snarky remark is the first that appears here, thanks for proving my point.

I already told you I played for over 3K hours and you sit here and tell me I can mod the game, no ♥♥♥♥ sherlock!

I want it to be part of the vanilla game!

 
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Surprise, a snarky remark is the first that appears here, thanks for proving my point.
I already told you I played for over 3K hours and you sit here and tell me I can mod the game, no ♥♥♥♥ sherlock!

I want it to be part of the vanilla game!
I was feeling bad from your first post that you had maybe posted some ideas for the game and maybe I or someone else had been rudely dismissive of them.

But now I think it wasn’t that at all...’

In any case I wanted to reply to your other post and say that with the new options coming in 17.2 you will be able to change things so that destroying blocks can be easier for players but harder for zombies and increase the xp gain rate by up to 300%. So making a game that won’t require 100s of hours to get into and also zombies that can’t destroy blocks so quickly without having to mod will be in the next update. Hope that helps you and your crew enjoy it better.

 
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I was feeling bad from your first post that you had maybe posted some ideas for the game and maybe I or someone else had been rudely dismissive of them.
But now I think it wasn’t that at all...’

In any case I wanted to reply to your other post and say that with the new options coming in 17.2 you will be able to change things so that destroying blocks can be easier for players but harder for zombies and increase the xp gain rate by up to 300%. So making a game that won’t require 100s of hours to get into and also zombies that can’t destroy blocks so quickly without having to mod will be in the next update. Hope that helps you and your crew enjoy it better.
Dude that's so awesome! I don't much care for XP changes. But the block option is freaking awesome. Mostly thinking of hard core player's. I don't fall into that camp. But those who want to make the game ridiculously hard could bump zombie block damage and reduce their own. That alone should be fairly game changing.

Any idea if that's a selective option btw? Like, are traps going to be affected by block options?

 
Surprise, a snarky remark is the first that appears here, thanks for proving my point.
I already told you I played for over 3K hours and you sit here and tell me I can mod the game, no ♥♥♥♥ sherlock!

I want it to be part of the vanilla game!
I don’t always agree with gup. Mostly because he used that creepy voice modulator once. It was creepy.

But yeah he is spot on here.

No one cares that you played 3k hours. I can claim I played WOW for 6000 hours. Is blizzard gonna listen to me?!

 
Surprise, a snarky remark is the first that appears here, thanks for proving my point.
I already told you I played for over 3K hours and you sit here and tell me I can mod the game, no ♥♥♥♥ sherlock!

I want it to be part of the vanilla game!
So, you want the ability to mod the game to be part of the vanilla game, but don't want to mod the game?

...that makes no sense. Modding IS part of the vanilla game in a17.

But again, that's not the point... your ENTIRE post was well thought out and a productive criticism of what you feel is wrong with the game, until it wasn't. You bring the "snark" and then complain about it? That's hysterical.

Here's an example.

You:

"I want a Whopper add cheese, fries and a drink, AND I EXPECT YOU TO BE AN ASS ABOUT IT. This Burger King is a joke!".

You get your Whopper with cheese, fries and a drink.

Customer behind you:

"Maybe you wouldn't have bad experiences if you weren't being a prick."

"See? You proved my point!!! This Burger King is a joke!!!"

 
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