PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

What about the problem of a crowd of zombies "boosting" eachother attacking a single block?
I'd be somewhat ok with the pathing if they at least didn't all zero in on the same exact spot and then slice through like butter. Even reducing zombie block damage doesn't help with this because you have to *really* reduce it (like to 20% or less) and then it makes single or small groups of zombies completely ineffectual against blocks. Ideally zombies would be limited on the number that can attack the same block (like 3), and the rest would either wait their turn or find another block.
I agree, if a buff depending on their number should exist, it should be the opposite. Buff their attack if they are isolated. If a zombie does 100 damage to a block, and there are 5 zombies beating the same block, the block is already receiveing 500 damage. If there is a single zombie beating a block, the block is getting 100 damage. Why would you buff the 500 damage instead of the 100?

Make zombies damage our entire perimeter, this acomplishes:

1. Cooler active defense, since we need to go around the whole perimeter fighting and repairing

2. More worthwhile building, since we arent wasting 80% of the perimeter we built

3. I'd say easier AI programming, since it's harder to exploit zombies on different places than just 1 conga

4. More immersive, since it's closer to what zombies would do (the typical definition of zombies, since claiming a non existing enemy would really behave one way or another doesnt make real sense)

 
If TFP are going to expand mod\weapon types to the variety of D2 then I'd love it! BUT, I'd hate it if it was grindy like D2. Each mod\weapon should be significantly different or its just a giant grind without any real improvements. (+2%dmg here, +1.5 refire rate there, etc. Big whoop)
Based on a lot of the "grindy" additions\changes of a17, I too fear they might be moving towards that type of gameplay.
This is something of a concern of mine, too. Legendaries shouldn't just be stat boosts, they should have some neat compelling effect that makes us want them beyond the simple fact 'they're 20% better.' I want a shotgun that blows limbs off, a rifle that pierces multiple enemies, a super-accurate scoped crossbow. Something that makes me go 'I don't care if its numbers are the same, I don't even care if they're worse, I want to use this.'

 
Even better if they introduce several. here are just some more ideas i had

Legendary pistol - Uzzi with high cap magazine, 50 cal desert eagle...

Legendary shotgun - as mentioned in previous post double barrelled, semi auto, full auto

Legendary AR - increase magazine to 100 rounds, super fast fire rate

Legendary Marksman Rifle - 50 Cal. Magazine reduction, massive damage increase (Widowmaker from Mass Effect 2 anyone??? Love that gun lol). Kills any thing in one hit to the head, even things like irradiated cop on insane difficulty if you head shot.

Legendary Rocket Launcher - gives rocket launcher the justice it requires. massive radius and damage bonus, sets anything that survives on fire

some "new" guns

Semi-auto grenade launcher (M-32)

Flamethrower

Mounted gatling. Have to be stationary to use but massive damage and fire rate. No reloading. Ammo pre-loaded into it like a turret.

 
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Legendary level gear is already planned and will be items that can only be found or quested for and not craftable.
A reason to need legendary gear would be better than having actual legendary gear.

 
What's different between A16 and A17 is that in A16 the optimal strategy varied depending on what you wanted to do because of learning by doing. Wanted to be the best miner? Go out and mine a lot. Wanted to be an awesome scavenger? Get out there and loot. Wanted to be a gunslinger? Shoot things. Wanted to be a crafter? Spam-craft. Every approach had its own optimal path. In A17 (especially A17.0) all the optimal paths are identical because there is one universal path to progression, screamer-farming, that is leagues better than every available alternative. Want to be a great crafter? Farm screamers. Want to be a great fighter? Farm screamers. Want to be a great scavenger? Farm screamers. Because everything is now obtained through XP there exists a single optimal route regardless of profession. It doesn't matter what you want to do, farm enough screamer hordes and you can be the world's best. That's what's different.
Actually, the best way to get things in A16 was to mine. XP was super unbalanced. After a few days of mining, you could have most of the needed the perks. From there, it was quick work to up the other skills to buy the gated perks. Roland, was there a bunch of complaining about gates in A16? Seems like there should have been. (Also, I'm pretty sure that spam-crafting already had been removed for A16.)

 
Actually, the best way to get things in A16 was to mine. XP was super unbalanced. After a few days of mining, you could have most of the needed the perks. From there, it was quick work to up the other skills to buy the gated perks. Roland, was there a bunch of complaining about gates in A16? Seems like there should have been. (Also, I'm pretty sure that spam-crafting already had been removed for A16.)
This is why I think the solution is something like this

Remove exp entirely, the way we know it currently.

Instead, have multiple exp bars. One for strength, one for agility, one for fortitude, one for intelligence, one for agility. Abusing mining would just get you strength level ups and not any of the other stats, forcing you to actually play the game rather than spam one thing.

Spamming zombies would only get you strength level ups. Avoiding the current zombie spam that people feel the need for. ETC...

 
Even better if they introduce several. here are just some more ideas i had
A few more that hopefully don't feel too 'video-gamey.'

Legendary Compound Bow: High accuracy, high zoom. Arrows that hit a player, animal, or zombie never break.

Legendary Crossbow: Features a 5-round magazine (Repeating crossbow) with pistol-speed fire rate. Longer reload.

Legendary SMG: No muzzle climb. Accuracy unaffected by firing.

Instead, have multiple exp bars. One for strength, one for agility, one for fortitude, one for intelligence, one for agility. Abusing mining would just get you strength level ups and not any of the other stats, forcing you to actually play the game rather than spam one thing.
How would you get it, though? Strength, Perception, and Intellect would be easy to suss out (Melee, ranged, crafting) but what could you do that would gain Agility or Fortitude? Sprinting wouldn't be a great pick for Agility because everybody does it anyway, while Fortitude doesn't really have any currently-ingame method that would make sense for it.

 
I like the repeating crossbow idea.

Agility - > level up just like athletics did in A16. I don't see why using sprinting would be a bad idea. In my opinion the whole point is to make stats easy to level up so you do NOT have to "grind" them. In my opinion, the moment something becomes a grind, you have failed as the developer. All stats should ideally level up as "Incidental" means of playing (in other words, naturally without grinding). Successful stealth kills could also boost agility.

Fortitude - > This could replace the old wellness system. The more you keep yourself well fed and well hydrated, that would be one way to get exp here. Additionally, eating some of the better foods would keep you fed longer (like A16) and also give you a huge boost to fortitude. This would have the added benefit of enticing people to learn the Chef perk. Right now it's not a very useful perk.

 
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I just don't think getting A TON of interesting and unique legendary items is a realistic expectation. And if they only add a handfull then that doesn' really help with the lack of endgame looting that much, you can find them and there's nothing to loot again.

At least with D2 style "slightly different randoms stats" there's always a chance to find better gear, no matter how long you've been playing.

 
Why wouldn't it be a realistic expectation? Legendary implies something unique. I will be very disappointed if its just the same as going from 5 to 6 as it is from 6 to 7. Just increasing stats is boring and shows lack of creativity to be honest. Let's set the bar high :D

Regarding the always chance to find better...

They could apply that here too if they made it so better stuff spawns the further out from your starting zone. They could even re-do the world to make it infinite so you could in theory get better stuff indefinitely and also increase the difficulty of zombies indefinitely as well.

 
Well I mean it's just probably a ton of work, especially if we want unique models for them and all.

They could even re-do the world to make it infinite so you could in theory get better stuff indefinitely and also increase the difficulty of zombies indefinitely as well.
This sounds awesome though, an infinite journey for better loot with ever increasing dangers, I want this in the game now :D

 
This sounds awesome though, an infinite journey for better loot with ever increasing dangers, I want this in the game now :D
Seems like this might be impossible to code, but this has been done before just fine. In fact the first "Infinite" generated game I played was waaaaay back when CD roms were awesome. So there is no reasons it can't be done now. (Delta Force - you could wander as far away from the primary map as you wanted, the terrain extended forever - they didn't have border walls)

Fortresscraft is a more recent crafting/survival/voxel game that is also infinitely generated both horizontally and vertically so it can definitely be done in a genre like this.

 
Even better if they introduce several. here are just some more ideas i had
Legendary pistol - Uzzi with high cap magazine, 50 cal desert eagle...

Legendary shotgun - as mentioned in previous post double barrelled, semi auto, full auto

Legendary AR - increase magazine to 100 rounds, super fast fire rate

Legendary Marksman Rifle - 50 Cal. Magazine reduction, massive damage increase (Widowmaker from Mass Effect 2 anyone??? Love that gun lol). Kills any thing in one hit to the head, even things like irradiated cop on insane difficulty if you head shot.

Legendary Rocket Launcher - gives rocket launcher the justice it requires. massive radius and damage bonus, sets anything that survives on fire

some "new" guns

Semi-auto grenade launcher (M-32)

Flamethrower

Mounted gatling. Have to be stationary to use but massive damage and fire rate. No reloading. Ammo pre-loaded into it like a turret.
From what I understand legendary gear will have pre-installed unique mods attached that will grant the gear special abilities and not just modifiers to make them more of what they already are. The mods will be permanent and only work with the piece of gear they are attached to.

Of course, things could change between now and implementation

 
From what I understand legendary gear will have pre-installed unique mods attached that will grant the gear special abilities and not just modifiers to make them more of what they already are. The mods will be permanent and only work with the piece of gear they are attached to.
Of course, things could change between now and implementation
Thanks for the info. As long as they have something unique that makes them worth using over regular gear!

So does that mean I get my Full auto shotgun?? :p

AA-12

Atchisson_AA-12_Sideview.png


or this:

USAS-12 auto shotgun

USAS12shotgun4104.jpg


 
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AGREED.....its sad that the game went from fun to boring...Every house being a crawl is annoying and boring. i had more fun in the old houses than these new ones......
I think TFP is getting bored with the game and just want to finish it and go GOLD..so they are just throwing things in now to complete it ASAP.

my post.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17/page3288
To each his own. I love the dungeon crawl POIs and the current ratio of them to basic buildings.

But to your point....if TFP was getting bored with the game they wouldn't have spent the time to convert and update around 70 POI's. Doing what they did shows the opposite. They love this game and want it to be the best it can be. For those who like lots of cluttered structures and blind corners it got a lot better than A16 which was in turn better than A15 as far as POI exploration is concerned.

 
My overall collective thoughts after many games in A17+

I have had several games now, 1 long game and 4 short/medium length games both with friends and on public servers.

There are so many things i would like to see changed, but im going to focus on the things which matter most to me. Here is my observed experience and feedback:

VEHICLES

Love the new vehicles, however some balancing and bugs need addressing.

1. Party members or allies cannot access 4x4 Truck storage, only the person who placed it down.

2. The bikes are understandably fragile, but the 4X4 Truck is damaged too easily and too quickly. Please consider allowing the 4X4 Truck to have more HP or better resistance to small stones. The truck is wide, making it more a victim to small objects, therefor it should not be as fragile as the bikes.

3. Non occupied vehicles roll down a hill too easily, making much less sense when using the motorbikes and 4X4 Truck...did they not invent the handbrake? Please consider forcing non occupied vehicles to constantly brake, please take into consideration that not everyone's bases are going to be on super-flat land.

PLAYER STATS and PERKS

I have to be honest with the new perk system, this is a large part of why i have lost interest in 7D2D, as it is a huge change to the core gameplay, and its all negative.

1. MELEE just doesnt work, it feels awful and i boil it down to several reasons:

1a. Early game, you have the fitness and stamina of someone who weighs 1200 pounds, but by mid-game (or just 8 levels later), you have infinite stamina and the fitness of 10 Hussain Bolts.

1b. Melee is less of a brawl now, and more you kiting like you are using a ranged weapon, using your endless stamina like a cheatmode. Melee can hardly be called melee, if being at range is how you play it.

1c. Stun/Knockdown spam (very easily acheivable early-on) is too effective and strips real MELEE combat away from us.

(for melee i would probably advise looking at the Left 4 Dead model, in which melee players are given a 'Shove' button, which quickly degrades in effectiveness if spammed. Perma-stunlocking in 7D2D makes melee a joke)

1d. Arm or Leg gibbing is too rare. Head gibbing seems balanced as it is (should be kept rare)

1e. Heavy strike is far too powerful on the Sledgehammer.

2. STAMINA. Where do i begin.. actually, ill just keep this one short.

2a. Early game, far too little stamina crippling peoples experience to the point it makes a lot of people quit the game early. By end game, we have too much, basically infinite. Particularly too much regeneration at end game.

2b. Too many ways to create infinite stamina regeneration methods. Even without coffee, its too much. Start by removing 50 stamina recovery in melee on kill and the stamina recovery on ranged perks, melee efficiency perks are enough.

2c. Another cripple factor is the Encumberance slots. They make NO sense, drop the whole thing. Having Light Armour and Heavy Armour determine our runspeed and stamina cost while running, is more than enough.

2d. Drop swing efficiency perks, you can now Mine infinitely because of it. In the past to mine 'endlessly' required coffee, and that felt a lot better, making coffee had a purpose.

3. PERKS. Poorly implemented, a gamekiller for many especially in single player.

3a. The requirements in levels to craft a Forge, Battery bank,and stuff we need to play, is ABSURDLY high. Many players feel they have no choice but to spend constantly in Intelligence when they want to put points into other things. This problem is the worst for Single Players who have to level up EVERYTHING.

(honestly i miss having to find books to craft things..without them, the game currently suffers from a shortage of Paper).

3b. 'Boom! Headshot' and 'Skull Crusher' are far too powerful.

3c. 'Sexual Tyrannosaurus' too easily creates 'Infinite Stamina', remove its stamina gain on killing blow, and reduce effectiveness to 20% at max rank.

3d. 'Slow metabolism' at max rank is bugged. You never need to eat food for up to an entire week, drinking is fine and behaves properly. You never go hungry EVER.

3e. Archery is the weakest it has ever been, with little way to increase damage. After beginning game, Archery becomes exstinct.

EXPERIENCE AND ZOMBIES

You knew this would be here. What a slow, grindy chore! And its non functional. I will not discuss the Ai here (prefer A16 or earlier). This is THE biggest reason i cant stand playing the game.

A. Killing Zombies is not the one-and-only goal for 7D2D, stop making it so only Zombie Killing is the only way to get XP.

Do you know what should grant more XP? Mining, Cutting trees down, Quests, Crafting, Looting Untouched weapon bags or Untouched Working Stiff crates (things found at the end of a PoI), THINGS PEOPLE DO.

B. On public servers, new players get destroyed by Radiated Feral zombies when they have no gear or stamina to defend themselves, PoI sleepers need to spawn based on the AGE of the player, not how many DAYS the server is up to.

C. On public servers with over 10 players, there are NO wandering zombies. They just never spawn due to limitations, this means barely any XP, because Zombies are XP remember...this made playing on a Public Server a non-option.

ANIMAL ANTICS

A. After the server has been online for 2 hours, animal spawn rates go from a wide variety and fair spawn rate, to almost NO spawns, and only rabbits. This includes bears.

B. Wild Wolfs can spawn anywhere at total random, including inside your large, well-trapped base...including in the block next to you, in front of your face.

LOOT and CRAFTING

A. It can take over a month of ingame time (30 hours IRL to me) to get a Solar Bank running with full set of cells in a single player/co-op game. In public servers? Just dont even bother. You'll NEVER get them before the top dogs do. This is an outrageous demand! (extremely rare trading object)

B. We cant craft any better clothes? Please correct this.

C. I finally crafted a R6 Steel Mining Helmet!...but it doesnt work. Only the trader could give me a working 'basic' mining helmet.

D. We have a massive shortage of, Bones, Potato's (very rare PoI's), Paper, and more on public servers (no cars left for example, extremely rare then to find from a trader). Add better chances for Battery/Engine/Tyres to Garage Storage boxes.

E. Knuckle Duster should be a melee weapon, not an invisible modification.

PERFORMANCE

Lets be honest, its the worst its ever been. Your system can be DOUBLE the recommended game requirements and still be unable to get a stable 60fps, BUT, Hear me out funpimps, i may be able to increase performance for you.

I wont mention the stuttering because we already know youre looking into that. So i'll get to the point:

You dont like people digging underground bases, and have made zombies dig down to you now, we understand that and can accept that, but currently, we can dig down pretty deep...i mean INCREDIBLY deep into the land.

Seeing as theres no point digging deep.. Why dont you reduce the depth of the underground by around 60% ? Think of the dramatic performance boost that will have. Theres no purpose or reason to dig deep anymore. If you really dont want us to dig deep, then COMMIT to it, and reduce the maximum depth by a great amount.

Secondly. Memory leak? FPS loss gets worse over long sessions. After a 6 hour session, i need to restart to get things to normal.

Thirdly, during a horde night after being playing for 4 hours, i couldnt move because my console kept taking input away from me, infinitely spamming red messages and disallowing me from escaping its repeated grasp until i ended the task.

 
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Do you know what should grant more XP? Mining, Cutting trees down
Once you have Steel (or even Iron) tools and are specced for Mining, it does give more XP. I get 400 XP for a tree and 800 XP for a boulder. Grunt zombies give 550 XP.

 
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