PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Cirion]

The fact, constructive criticism or not, is that 50% of people don't like the game it seems. Its best to address them rather than sweep it under the rug.

Now, I personally try to provide more constructive criticism than most, but there are still things I don't like in A17 too. I DO like a lot of the changes, but I don't like how some aspects of A16 that were GOOD got cut out like skillbooks, mastering a skill by using, gun parts, to name a couple. I don't think we need to axe the A17 changes to include them, if TFP is afraid of that. Why not integrate the best of both alphas? True you can't please everyone, but you can get close if you provide options that incorporate both. The current perk system is here to stay, after all they spent a year on it and they're not about to do away with that now. And that's OK, in some ways I like it, but can't we integrate the A16 system into it somehow?

 

[Aldranon]

Unless they get rid of Gamestage (they will not I believe) then gaining exp without an equal gain in usable equipment or something that aids in survival, your chances of survival are reduced.

 

[Cirion]

Unless they get rid of Gamestage (they will not I believe) then gaining exp without an equal gain in usable equipment or something that aids in survival, your chances of survival are reduced.

This is also a good point. Can we get a slider bar that adjusts the rate of gamestage increase? I feel like Green zombies often appear long before you're ready for them. This would be another nice slider IMO.

 

[Hellsmoke]

The fact, constructive criticism or not, is that 50% of people don't like the game it seems. Its best to address them rather than sweep it under the rug.

Fact is also that rewiew bombing has become a trend and the steam reviews mean little to nothing now because many people who gave it a negative review have thousands of hours under their belt, let's be honest. I think most of those reviews are from fans who are upset with changes and want to force their way. I don't like several changes either but using the reviews in that way makes the whole review system useless to everyone.

I agree they made some poor design choices (in my opinion) but not all were introduced in a17, some go much further back like how mining was changed in a15. This is all coming from my own opinion though, others may like it. I dislike quite a few things that were changed in a17 but they gotta have the freedom to work and try stuff out. They can't run every idea by us before they try it, doesn't make sense and it wouldn't work anyways because everyone has a different taste.

 

[Ghostlight]

Player damage to blocks: 200%Zombie damage to blocks: 50%

This is TFP all over. This is like putting a Band-Aid on a severed limb. The problem is not the zombie damage to the blocks, it is the flawed AI behind it, making all the zombies swarm to the single weak point like Army Sappers instead of mindless undead. As usual a quick, and dirty and wholly unsatisfying fix to mask an inherent problem in the game's design.

 

[Ghostlight]

Fact is also that rewiew bombing has become a trend and the steam reviews mean little to nothing now because many people who gave it a negative review have thousands of hours under their belt, let's be honest. I think most of those reviews are from fans who are upset with changes and want to force their way. I don't like several changes either but using the reviews in that way makes the whole review system useless to everyone..

I disagree completely. Your review should review the current version of a game, not the way it was for 1000 hours previous to that. What good is it for a new player to know I loved the game for 1000 hours if the game isn't like that any more? It would be dishonest NOT to change your review to negative if the game saw changes that made your feeling towards it change.

 

[Hek Harris]

I disagree completely. Your review should review the current version of a game, not the way it was for 1000 hours previous to that. What good is it for a new player to know I loved the game for 1000 hours if the game isn't like that any more? It would be dishonest NOT to change your review to negative if the game saw changes that made your feeling towards it change.

You could disagree completely if previous versions of the game were no longer available. But this is not the case. Murder the game because you don't like the 17 and found the 16 awesome while it is still accessible is not the most intelligent attitude.

 

[beHypE]

I'm not gonna repeat myself (check my post history for thoughts about books/skill system), but I think the one thing that makes this A17 such a mishmash of love and hate is the fact that they modified the core aspects of the game (the "soul" as some may call it) on too many levels at once. Back in previous alphas, changes would divide mostly because of fear of change, and even if the complaints were justified, it wasn't something THAT gamechanging that you couldn't look past it. But this time, one month has passed and seemingly dust still hasn't settled.

For the first time in many many alphas, they have gone down the road of a new vision instead of just "adding and changing" content. By focusing a lot of mechanics around RPG elements, things that made the uniqueness of 7 days to die for a lot of players got changed or worse lost. To only name a few, what once was an amazing world to explore with great purpose, alongside a good system of progress by action where your time spent "doing something" was rewarded with an uplifting "hey, it will be easier next time !"... has now turned into a generic experience farm in a world where the content is unlocked by spending no-matter-how-earned points into trees. There's choice, but there's no reward. No more "AMAZING!!!" moments, just quick thoughts along the lines of "yay i'm finally level xxx and unlocked yyy".

Replayability and unpredictability were both sound foundations of the game, because the biggest strength of the game (in the grand scheme of things) was that you always wanted to start over and adapt to what's happening to you. With a messed up RWG, less incentive to go out and explore, and with everything being mapped out for you, both those foundations took a big hit.

And regarding the debate on whether TFP listens to the community or not; i'll just say that sadly, the broad concerns regarding A17 aren't fixable through sliders and number-tinkering.

 

[Cirion]

You could disagree completely if previous versions of the game were no longer available. But this is not the case. Murder the game because you don't like the 17 and found the 16 awesome while it is still accessible is not the most intelligent attitude.

This is just a band-aid.

I for one liked SOME of the changes in A17, and actually for me A17 is just barely a net positive, so I don't wish to roll back to 16, but that doesn't change the fact that they changed many aspects that I really miss.

 

[Bhaaltazar]

I've been playing 7d2d since A10 back 2014 ( over 2000 hours over the years ). Since than game was getting better and better with every update. Really open world sandbox with no limitations except the RNG gods I liked that part even if I couldn't find those "damn" calibers till day 100 I didn't care, I played melee and bow - since than I always play with these two I don't care about guns much now , only on horde nights mostly.

Didn't find forge book, no biggie Quality Joe jumped in to help me out and so on, no minibike book, OK i ll keep my eye out for construction zombies and bikers.

A17 brought many good things, but took away the backbone of A17.

I like new combat, additional perks ( I always felt archery was left out with extra skill - Boom headshot and sneaking perks are awsome now in that regard ), I like cooking also got some love ( though I still miss some more advanced kitchens and recipes, seeds variety.. ), Vehicles are great ( believe it or not bicycle is my favorite ), new POI's are just awesome and beautiful, landscape is nice ( RWG is work in progress I know ) and many other things.

But the main sandbox thing of A16 was a zombie survival feel, where zombies were zombies ( slow, dumb and just looking for some fresh piece of meat - thats what the definition of zombie is! ). I know new AI is work in progress and all, but zombies doesn't jump or solve maze puzzles etc.. thats a completely different mob - I have no problems with dealing with them, but it doesn't feel right as a zombie.

Weapon parts were nice, sometimes RNG frustrating for not finding that last piece for sniper rifle - but hey you adapted. It would be great that would be kept ( quality levels may remain the same as they are now 1- 6 to simplify things ) and once you would assemble the gun it would become the item as it was introduced in A17 and mods can move in. That would be an awesome upgrade to A16 system.

Blades should slice through them and chop their hads off and not that it feels like hitting the with a stick - I know there cant be hordes of zombies because of performance issues, but blades should feel like blades. AND NEW A17 HITBOXES!! I mean poke and shoot style... also big dislike.

Building was one of the strongest parts of the 7d2d, it took a huge step back and with it whole gameplay. I liked building bases with traps since day 1, for zombies dismemberment so you could prioritize to whom you would attend first. I don't mind zombies rushing in and attacking the weakest spot, which of course you can turn to your advantage, but zombies with a mind of an architect - that is not a zombie any more. I wouldn't mind for some special boss zombies or something alike that could do that ( some super mutant sort of thing ), but zombies should remain zombies.

From day one horde night never felt the same - yes in B195 things got very interested ( unbalanced at that time ) with new vultures coming in and spider zombies started jumping from the ground to the parapets ^^, but it felt more like some shooter game and with few tweaks they were very predictable and not like old mindless types from previous builds.

This new AI should be kept for bandits or some other new type of enemies. Oh and spider zombies should be creeping from dark corners on ceilings dropping down on you while looting - that would be more immersive looking up and all around during loot runs

But the main dislike is the new perk system and gates ( not pregression in damage type, but more like forge tree, schematics, science... they contradict each other - you unlock something yet you cant do nothing till level 70 since you need steel? etc.. ) . As I said earlier A16 had a great skill tree, which should just had all the new great additions of A17 integrated into old system. Athletics was a great example of it - more you ran, jumped, punched more athletic you became ( so with new perks you could integrate that for stamina usage - the more you are getting fit with all that the less stamina you would use ( like in real world ) and all the agility perks from A17 would mesh great with athletics. Same with other ranged and melee skills. A 16 had a great foundations and it would with some trial and error with adding A17 system to it implement it to being even greater.

AND NEAR DEATH debuff is poorly implemented - yes you should get some debuff to stamina and health, but you should have way to mend that with food or medicine. And you loosing skills, wtf?? Thats so poorly integrated - fixed 30 min time with no way to fix it...

There are many things I like about A17, but it feels like the game lost its charm it had and turned more into shooter action style gameplay and lots has been cut away from the A16 good sides. All the tactical aspects, building aspects got somehow dumbed down instead of improved and refined even further ( would love to see some end game settlement rebuilding to create safe zones for survivors - at least I had a feeling that was the direction game was going ), but now it feels more like it steering into action style gameplay, where mostly quick trigger finger on a mouse and hand reflexes plays bigger role than the rest of the game - smart builds, exploration, outposts... of course all there are still here only to much smaller extent.

You got many options in base defense building - from pillars, poles, ramps, stretching them out, shooting or melee... now all that is far from what it was. And yes I know AI is a work in progress obviously, but it just doesn't feel right.

There are many other things I could write about - as an "older gamer" I never ever got involved much in game discussions before, but 7d2d brought me back to gaming world when I found most of the other games out there just plain, repetitive already seen before type of products that only developed new graphics but ideas behind it remained the same. Many games tried to imitate what 7d2d had but failed at it.

With A17 it felt like that something that I really enjoyed somehow steered into wrong direction towards above mentioned type of gameplay. Of course there are many different players with different tastes, but this is just my opinion and my thoughts to give for some consideration.

 

[Benjiro]

Fact is also that rewiew bombing has become a trend and the steam reviews mean little to nothing now because many people who gave it a negative review have thousands of hours under their belt, let's be honest. I think most of those reviews are from fans who are upset with changes and want to force their way. I don't like several changes either but using the reviews in that way makes the whole review system useless to everyone.

I see plenty of people with 20 or 40 or 50 hours on A17 giving it negative reviews. Those with low amount of hours complain about graphics issues, speed issues, difficulty / understanding or lack of enjoyment. The people who tend to be long in the community, focus more on the skill system, fun ( or lack of it ), content, the things lost. One can clearly see a trend between the two type of reviews, so its not just the old guard negative reviewing the game.

And does it make a review less, when the old guard with 1000s of hours negative review the game. There are lots of other games that do big updates and they do not piss off the older players. This is simply the Pimps not understanding their client base, why the clients liked the old 7D2D.

 

[xXBadDreamXx]

building now is dumb and most people just build stupid structures to cheese the AI . before we had a bit of cheese and now its mostly cheese.

because youre forced to kill for exp the horde night is no longer special and just another day of popping exp pinatas. the horde was the core and soul of the game and the preparation for it and base building for it. now you just kill kill kill always and try to fit in resource gathering when you can. now theres nothing special because building is just about exploiting AI weaknesses. we shouldnt be forced to go after zombies all the time...zombies should come after us on horde night.

 

[Ornias]

I agree with the OP here. I now play the forum more than the game. Actually I don't play the game anymore. There are no more "yay" moments. No more joy from finding the minibike book or crossbow book. This game is now strictly on rails with MIT level zombies. I am glad we can roll it back and use on the mods from 16.4. There is no joy to know EXACTLY when I will get the minibike, crossbow, or anything else. TFP took a great game and honestly just dumbed it down, but in the wrong direction. LBD was a great system and with a few tweaks to assure that you could still get the critical books at a certain stage would have been fine. As a solo player I don't find it fun to build a horde base. I just camp on top of whatever building is close by and snipe with a bow.

 

[Benjiro]

There are more changes coming in 17.2 and gladly they are the type of changes that are configurable through the options menu so that nobody will have to feel that TFP is giving in to one side or another.

The biggest change is going to be options for xp gain rate to make progression faster or slower. Also, damage to blocks has been separated between player and zombie. Putting this together, the early game can easily be reconfigured to feel less grindy and tedious for those who feel that it is.

XP earning: 150%

Player damage to blocks: 200%

Zombie damage to blocks: 50%

Something like this could help make the early game tolerable as well as make building more viable for those who have felt it is not.

Roland, this does not fix a thing.

This is telling people: "Hell no, we are not changing the system that you people complain about, lets put some paint over the problem and hope you all stop whining about it". It does not work because the whole Perk and XP system are now so intertwined.

The Pimps turned the game into a MMO and no matter what about of paint they put over the problem, it does not change the nature of the beast. Nor can one "mod out" the whole perk system because they removed the skill based code!

The settings could even be changed later in the game if necessary.

That sells ... People here is our game but our balance has such issues that we will give you the ability to later in the game change your settings. That really shows a lack of peoples psychology. Later people will simply be tired or fed up and simply quit and end of story. The few people that will change their settings is very low. Nice to have the option but it does not solve the issue of content, progression and fun factor.

Think of it this way, people who complain/dislike A17 now have a lot of free time not playing 7D2D, to post of the forums everywhere how much they dislike A17. That is how much the Pimps made the wrong choice.

 

[Hellsmoke]

I see plenty of people with 20 or 40 or 50 hours on A17 giving it negative reviews. Those with low amount of hours complain about graphics issues, speed issues, difficulty / understanding or lack of enjoyment. The people who tend to be long in the community, focus more on the skill system, fun ( or lack of it ), content, the things lost. One can clearly see a trend between the two type of reviews, so its not just the old guard negative reviewing the game.
And does it make a review less, when the old guard with 1000s of hours negative review the game. There are lots of other games that do big updates and they do not piss off the older players. This is simply the Pimps not understanding their client base, why the clients liked the old 7D2D.

Yeah but I bet most of the old guard still play the game not to mention the versions they like are still available as mentioned in a post above and if they aren't they sure still take the time to post on the forum.

The game is still as amazing as it was on day one even if things are rough atm. Pick your favorite alpha version and have at it. Reading the reviews will put off many players who wont try any alpha because they are worried that the game sucks.

Since alpha 16 is still available the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the old guard is upset that changes didn't go their way. Their game didn't change, their interests weren't represented in the new version but that doesn't mean the game sucks now. It means at most that there was no new content for them.

Saying the game is no fun now is not a valid argument. If alpha 17 was the only version available I'd understand completely but that's not the case.

I'm old guard and don't like several changes but I have loads of options to play what I want. I have access to all alphas, loads of mods and the ability to mod the game myself. Sure I'd love vanilla to be perfect for me but it isn't finished and they already are working on giving us options so we can all play the way we like.

 

[Randomdude]

Saying the game is no fun now is not a valid argument. If alpha 17 was the only version available I'd understand completely but that's not the case.

I'm not gonna get into the who's right or wrong here (as they're all opinions), but I just had to make sure I commented on how I could not disagree more with your first sentence here. To be honest and in my opinion, after a certain point (level 60-70ish), the game loses ALL fun. Loot table for items are completely ♥♥♥♥ed and there is NO reason to loot anything, as you can craft all. IF you dared going to loot, you'd find a Working Stiff box with either a lvl below you could make or 4 jars and 3 nails, making your efforts of fighting 1,736 green mother♥♥♥♥ers, a chore and kinda stupid.

Then you talk about versions... Are you seriously telling me that having access to the earlier versions is a feature?

So if this was Microsoft and I bought Win 7, and they patch it up and change your left click for your right click (completely changing the way things work), if I say I don't like it, your response would be "Install Win 98", you have "options now!"????

 

[Benjiro]

Since alpha 16 is still available the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the old guard is upset that changes didn't go their way. Their game didn't change, their interests weren't represented in the new version but that doesn't mean the game sucks now. It means at most that there was no new content for them.

Saying the game is no fun now is not a valid argument. If alpha 17 was the only version available I'd understand completely but that's not the case.

But it is not ... As A17 continues into A18. You are going to keep playing A16? When A19 is out, you still play A16? The mod support simply vanishes as mod authors are too busy with new alphas, trying to keep up to date.

Does it mean because the Pimp decisions, that a part of the community need to "shut up" and mod it themselves or keep running the old version. Last i checked, my money was as green as the next guys money.

Red herring:

* Mod it yourself

* Keep playing A16 forever.

The fact that A16 still exist does not change the fact that a group of players is now put in a situation of splitting the community.

You did not create that problem. I did not create the problem. The Pimps created this mess by pushing a system and balance that is not liked by part of the community.

And for your information, A16 is the Alpha that has fewer hours on my counter, then the previous alphas. Because i was already unhappy with the direction the game was taking.

A17 was already visible in A16. We lost several mechanisms. We lost smell, caves ( hello A17?? ). Sleepers was totally not the promised system and buggy. And i remember lot of people ( inc Roland ) telling the complainer to shut up, the pimp will fix things in A17. You will see... And here we are today. What has become very clear is actually not crying bloody murder has resulted in everybody waiting for a year, with very few new content and a total overhaul that sucked the little bit of fun left out. Mid or late game content? A year and bloody half for this ...

And now what? People need to go back to A15 and whatever mods ( that may not even work anymore? ). As i said, telling people use a older alpha, or mod it yourself or ... that is all a red herring to tell people.

 

[R0bb0b]

Out of those 95 (estimated)Also a ton of ppl complained about learn by doing. (spam crafting, exploiting to max skills) Which is probably one of the reasons it was changed. Now I am sure many of those people are kicking themselves for being so vocal about it. lol If anything, TFP listen too much sometimes

The last time the reviews were this mixed was back when the pimps initially introduced upgrading scrap iron blocks to concrete and not since. Not before either, and I've been watching since A9.

 

[Aldranon]

The one thing that makes A17 the best release so far, is it's toughness. It's a shockingly different playstyle and some cant adjust yet.

Sure, easy-pezy early game "Oh! look at all the EXP I'm raking in! A few hours later... "OMG OMG! They're killing me!"

To me, playing A17 "Dead is Dead", the game is like landing a big fat plane with all the engines on fire and a small runway ahead. Land too fast (too much EXP, not enough good gear) and you die. Too slow and you die as you cant seem to catch up!

There is a sweet spot that depends on how quickly you can get an ammo economy going and find the key mods: Rad-X, Extended ammo and anything I can stuff in my steel armor is what I like. (Sledge for giggles)

 

[Ghostlight]

The one thing that makes A17 the best release so far, is it's toughness. It's a shockingly different playstyle and some cant adjust yet.

I'd say YOU are the one who can't adjust, since this alpha is by far the easiest and least challenging I have ever played (playing on warlord, day 50, gamestage 297, for the record; 2 deaths this play through, both of which were in first week and were me falling onto my own spikes). To anyone describing it as tough, I have to say....l2p.

p.s. A first in-game week of tedious grind is not challenge.