PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

I take it that you are part of that collective? Both of these responses basically were non sequiturs.
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Stay around and deal with the community for about 5 years as I have, you've only been less than a year little one, you were just taking a jab at me for lulls I'm sure because I said something so mean didn't I? rofl neither comment was a non sequitur but I'll give you a brownie point for trying to use a big word. Careful not to bite your tongue on it though.

(Seriously just observe the behavior of some of these people, they complain about some of the most inane things and I have watched live streams of players literally that just are utterly terrible at the game and don't know what they're doing )

Honestly if you are playing without a server mod that is on you. Multiplayer issues and PvP issues are solved problems already. CPM can create unlimited advanced claims for PVE and restore a16 claims for PVP
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and where can I find this mod, I usually don't mod and like to play the game as it was intended, but the recent LCB changes destroys multiplayer.

 
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Stay around and deal with the community for about 5 years as I have, you've only been less than a year little one, you were just taking a jab at me for lulls I'm sure because I said something so mean didn't I? rofl neither comment was a non sequitur but I'll give you a brownie point for trying to use a big word. Careful not to bite your tongue on it though.
(Seriously just observe the behavior of some of these people, they complain about some of the most inane things and I have watched live streams of players literally that just are utterly terrible at the game and don't know what they're doing )
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You join date is one year sooner than mine, and I lurked before making a profile. (I can only assume that you did as well.) As for the rest, no lolz and not because of some "mean comment." Your statements were just wrong. (Small enough words for you?)

I know people say inane things and complain simply because they are lazy (not necessarily directing that to this thread). It is frustrating. Interestingly, it happens on both sides of the aisle.

 
Actions speak louder than words. No one may have said “We gotta oust people from playing underground”, but they still did it anyway.
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All you are exposing is your own lack of creativity. I promise you that those who find it fun to adapt and innovate will find ways to continue playing underground. Some may discover cheap exploits that feel kind of cheaty but others will find interesting strategies. And then they will post their strategies and people like you will learn that not everyone was ousted and when people like you copy those methods that others find then you’ll finally realize that the devs didn’t oust anyone from the underworld simply by making zombies dig.

Their actions are speaking and what they are saying is that the behavior of the enemies in the game are meant to be threatening in every biome but just like the devs still do want you to play the game in the forest biome even though zombies can go there they also want you to play underground even though the zombies can go there too.

If you can’t figure out how to do it or if solving such puzzles is not fun for you be patient because eventually there will be instructions provided by those who do like to adapt and overcome.

I would not be surprised if by A18 it will almost universally be held that surviving underground even with digging zombies is....”too easy”.

 
In the 2 games I have played thus far (one in Nav and one Ran gen) both of my bases have been underground. With Cement and rebar so abundant at construction sites in A17 (and there is literally a TON of it at the "Gracie POI") , I was standing on the top of a concrete tower by day 14 that lead into my bases by ladder. Sure I have to replace layers of wood and metal spikes after a Horde night, but thus far, only once have they gotten within reach of my tower wall and I find that If I am standing on top of my tower blasting away, the Z's have no reason to dig.

Dukes from treasure maps has let me snag a few Shotgun turrets and I am working on a second layer of concrete (to be reinforced later when I can make steel) and adding barbed wire and even more spikes. They upped their Offensive game so I upped my Defense. I don't mind chopping trees and harvesting iron scrap the day after a horde night because it means I survived another week.

Only having seen the changes from A16 to A17 (all of which I too am not crazy about but endure), I am curious to see what changes await in A18 and beyond and what strategies the more experienced players develop to counter what is being thrown at us.

Feels like we went from facing "Walking Dead" Z's in A16 and found ourselves in Resident Evil Z's in A17. :upset:

 
I see we still going at it with digging zombies. It isn't like they are a new thing and all. We used to have them so it isn't a shock they brought them back. I do believe I remember them saying they would bring them back when they had more time to work with them or something like that. I think they will get even better the more they work on them.

 
I understand the devs POV, but alot of ppl dont have basically unlimited playtime and alot play with thier kids of all ages.

The issue i see is casual gamers that dont have endless hours to test/find the one " new " design that works : (

Does lowering the difficulty simply prolong the time b4 no base design works any longer ?

So if the pimps are trying to challenge the high end HC player will there be options for the many other groups of players ( besides exrensive .xml editing ) that lowers the challenge AND allows for long term family bases that arent wiped off the face of the map by night 70 ?

1 think i'd like to add, our base design guy ( Mytheos ) literally spends 100's of hours in creative SP alone designing and testing new designs. He does it but he HAS to do it so often now hes getting burned out : (

When he does come out I try to help him build the new design on our public PVP MP server.

Even when players know what design works it takes HOURS upon HOURS to gather materials for construction. Along with the new gated items like steel and automated traps, players imo can get frustrated if they have to search and test for days and days to design/gather/mats and construct a design that fails in less than 2 minutes due to super organized analytical zombies smarter than Sherlock Holmes.

And from what im getting the average players are supposed to wait for the super players to come up with new design and copy that..... what if average players never have access to that " new design " some1 spent 40 hours to discover/test ?

I have 3k hours in this game and love it, but it seems to me like the team is making a game for the super player HC and leaving the casual family players behind or allowing them to die endlessly because they dont have engineering degrees and 100 hours to find that new one design that works.

While forcing players to be creative your imo making it so only a very small % of creativity is actually valid.

With out heavy editing will there be a way for this game to be fun for everyone again and just not the developers?

 
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All you are exposing is your own lack of creativity. ...
...If you can’t figure out how to do it or if solving such puzzles is not fun for you be patient because eventually there will be instructions provided by those who do like to adapt and overcome.

I would not be surprised if by A18 it will almost universally be held that surviving underground even with digging zombies is....”too easy”.
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My, ad hominem attacks? Really? Could you not craft a substantial argument that was related to the thread at hand, or was evidence so underwhelming you had no other choice? One of the commonly held philosphical tenents is that when ad hominem attcks start, the debate is over and the fight begins.

As for your claim, put your money where your mouth is: Post your underground base. Show us how it's done.

Me, I can point to video after video showing groups of zombies digging down a single column faster than a player can with an auger. That's not immersion breaking at all. Totally within the zombie genre. Perhaps we can skip to the end and reskin all the zombies as T-1000's?

 
As for your claim, put your money where your mouth is: Post your underground base. Show us how it's done.
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The classic underground bases with a simple hatch as entrance are practically dead. You have to show the zombies an alternative way to the player so they don't start digging. Vedui has developed some concepts and made some videos. These concepts were tested against the blood moon horde but not really meant to fight the horde in them.

The first one shows the basic concept. In the early game you can use wood spikes instead of blade traps but this will only protect you from wandering hordes or single zombies but not against a full fledged blood moon horde.

These concepts also show that you can't just go AFK in your base anymore which can be a problem for MP players because they can't pause the game. And for PVP players these concepts have the disadvantage that they are more visible than a hatch hidden behind a bush or under a tree.

 
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I have never ever heard once during developer discussions a single developer say, “We gotta oust people from playing underground”. Again the OP makes the faulty assumption that the devs are out to stop the players from playing a certain way which is not true. As changes are made there will be old strategies that become unviable but new strategies will be found. That is indeed a major source of fun for certain individuals: to experiment with different designs and try things out.
Instead of complaining that underground bases no longer are viable because the devs don’t want players playing underground, try going underground and experimenting to see what works. Or wait until someone else does and posts it and the copy what they do.

If the devs want anything it is that players will rise to the challenge and be creative in finding new designs rather than bemoaning that old exploits no longer are viable.
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You not understanding the community here. If zombies were not allowed in the Burnt Forest biome a huge chunk of people here would build there and be happy and not care about digging zombies.

Its not that they are dying to build underground, they are dying to build in a place where zombies cant reach them. Never underestimate how challenge adverse most of this community is.

 
You not understanding the community here. If zombies were not allowed in the Burnt Forest biome a huge chunk of people here would build there and be happy and not care about digging zombies.
Its not that they are dying to build underground, they are dying to build in a place where zombies cant reach them. Never underestimate how challenge adverse most of this community is.
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The Pimps have talked about adding an option in for Blood Moon frequency, going from daily the way down to never (which is effectively what building an underground base in A16 entailed), so this perhaps can be the solution for those wanting a completely safe base.

Personally, I think a "Dig / No Dig" in game option would also be a good way out, and would be a rare example, imho, of an option worth coding into the games option menu screen.

 
Alot of ppl think they know what every one else wants or at least a large %.

How about an official poll with a few options of the level of challenge people would prefer to play at ?

Using 17.1 B8 as a base line and a few other options perhaps like

A few diggers

no diggers

Current super intelligent zombies

Not quite so smart zombies

ect ect

Im not questioning the direction of the game just who the team is ultimately targeting.

I like a challenge but it feels like we dont stand a chance unless we somehow discover the next ultra base, or not play until some1 else does and copy it exactly :(

 
Alot of ppl think they know what every one else wants or at least a large %.
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Well, the best way out of that conundrum, is simply to make the game as moddable as possible, which the Pimps have been more or less doing. Hopefully by Gold, even modifications to core mechanics will be, at most, no more than an XML edit away.

 
The Pimps have talked about adding an option in for Blood Moon frequency, going from daily the way down to never (which is effectively what building an underground base in A16 entailed), so this perhaps can be the solution for those wanting a completely safe base.
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All the players I know who had an underground base fought the horde mostly in a separate horde base. Some even ran around on the street and fought the Horde without a base.

I think what people liked most was the possibility to choose. If they didn't have time to prepare for the horde or just weren't in the mood to fight the horde, they could sit them out. They could even go into the mine and work productively while the horde rampaged on top of them.

Another advantage of a safe base is that you can also relax. If you're constantly under tension, it tires you out very quickly. That's why successful games often change pace. You have challenging phases, phases in which you have to think and phases in which you can just relax and get a story told.

I also think that a "Dig / No Dig" option here would bring more relaxation into the discussion.

 
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Its not that they are dying to build underground, they are dying to build in a place where zombies cant reach them. Never underestimate how challenge adverse most of this community is.
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Well, they want that, they need to turn zombies off them.

Hordes that hunt you is integral part of the game, if people don't like that, they play wrong game.

 
I understand the devs POV, but alot of ppl dont have basically unlimited playtime and alot play with thier kids of all ages.
The issue i see is casual gamers that dont have endless hours to test/find the one " new " design that works : (

Does lowering the difficulty simply prolong the time b4 no base design works any longer ?

So if the pimps are trying to challenge the high end HC player will there be options for the many other groups of players ( besides exrensive .xml editing ) that lowers the challenge AND allows for long term family bases that arent wiped off the face of the map by night 70 ?

1 think i'd like to add, our base design guy ( Mytheos ) literally spends 100's of hours in creative SP alone designing and testing new designs. He does it but he HAS to do it so often now hes getting burned out : (

When he does come out I try to help him build the new design on our public PVP MP server.

Even when players know what design works it takes HOURS upon HOURS to gather materials for construction. Along with the new gated items like steel and automated traps, players imo can get frustrated if they have to search and test for days and days to design/gather/mats and construct a design that fails in less than 2 minutes due to super organized analytical zombies smarter than Sherlock Holmes.

And from what im getting the average players are supposed to wait for the super players to come up with new design and copy that..... what if average players never have access to that " new design " some1 spent 40 hours to discover/test ?

I have 3k hours in this game and love it, but it seems to me like the team is making a game for the super player HC and leaving the casual family players behind or allowing them to die endlessly because they dont have engineering degrees and 100 hours to find that new one design that works.

While forcing players to be creative your imo making it so only a very small % of creativity is actually valid.

With out heavy editing will there be a way for this game to be fun for everyone again and just not the developers?
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It seems like video gaming is similar to driving. Everyone driving faster than me is crazy and everyone driving slower than me is an a-hole. (RIP George Carlin)

 
You not understanding the community here. If zombies were not allowed in the Burnt Forest biome a huge chunk of people here would build there and be happy and not care about digging zombies.
Its not that they are dying to build underground, they are dying to build in a place where zombies cant reach them. Never underestimate how challenge adverse most of this community is.
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I think maybe The Fun Pimps underestimated how cool their game is WITHOUT the 7 day horde. Many people would buy this game if it was A16 with no horde.

Now they are adding an option (i think) to turn the horde off so everyone will be happy. We just have to wait a little bit. I'll probably play no horde myself as the 7 day horde is boring for me. I like to explore.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, they want that, they need to turn zombies off them.Hordes that hunt you is integral part of the game, if people don't like that, they play wrong game.
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I can understand your confusion and it's very hard to explain but there's a niche of person like myself that love the game exactly as it is, but don't want the 7 day horde to dig down to their base. The Fun Pimps have heard and are adding more options for those players so your premise is mistaken.

It's like how I can't understand how anyone could enjoy bubblegum ice cream (yuck!)

 
My, ad hominem attacks? Really? Could you not craft a substantial argument that was related to the thread at hand, or was evidence so underwhelming you had no other choice? One of the commonly held philosphical tenents is that when ad hominem attcks start, the debate is over and the fight begins.
As for your claim, put your money where your mouth is: Post your underground base. Show us how it's done.

Me, I can point to video after video showing groups of zombies digging down a single column faster than a player can with an auger. That's not immersion breaking at all. Totally within the zombie genre. Perhaps we can skip to the end and reskin all the zombies as T-1000's?
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Not an attack. Just the way it is in life, my friend. There are those who give up without trying and call challenges insurmountable and impossible and there are those who get to work and through innovation and creativity they do what the first group proclaims is impossible.

I’m sorry but this has been going on since A17 drooped. People proclaiming building particular bases impossible even as others are building those very same bases successfully. Someone posting that getting into your own base now is impossible but several others explaining how to easily do just that only to be accused of trying to 1up the OP.

Please, enlighten me on the reason there is a first group that gives up and proclaims things impossible before even trying while another group is successfully doing those very same things and posting how they are doing them?

I think it’s obvious. You feel it’s an ad hominem attack. I just think it’s a fact of life and I’m not even being condescending about it because I don’t claim to even be a member of the second group. I’m perfectly happy to read about the cool strategies people come up with and try them out myself. I just know that when people start proclaiming challenges to be impossible within minutes or hours of being exposed to it they almost always turn out to be wrong.

I don’t disrespect them for not being able to see the solution as long as they take the attitude of asking questions in the hopes of learning. Sadly, that is not the attitude of most of these threads accusing the devs of taking away building options.

 
. Someone posting that getting into your own base now is impossible but several others explaining how to easily do just that only to be accused of trying to 1up the OP.
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What is this "1up" thing?

 
I do want the ability to turn OFF digging zombies.

Turn them off until I get the base setup (or the mine going), then turn it on for bloodmoon.

I didn't avoid the bloodmoons before (LOOT!!) and now it'll be for XP.

Will see how the AI progresses. In the meantime, I haz my machinegun. :laser:

 
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