Orclover
Refugee
I've heard they're adopting the Project Zomboid model.
Nutrition enabled.
Hydrocraft installed.
-Arch Necromancer Morloc
7D2D with Project Zomboid rules would both hilarious and horrifying. Can we try it?
PC Farming not very viable even with living off the land 3.
- Thread starter WayneFrancis
- Start date
7D2D with Project Zomboid rules would both hilarious and horrifying. Can we try it?
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
"I've been bitten by a zombie! What should I do??"
'Well, did you buy they perk that allows you to live for 3 extra days?'
"Wait, what?...isn't there a perk that makes me immune, or drastically lowers the chance that..."
'No. You're going to die. Soonish....unless you have that perk.'
"What good is it if I can live a few extra days..."
'Somtimes just a couple'
"What use is that??"
'You can get your affairs in order. Leave your gear somewhere for the next person to find. You can decide where you want to make...the transition.'
"OMG...ok, what's the recipe for the cure, or what insanely difficult POI do I need to hit for the medicine to fix...."
'There is no cure. Nope. Just use the time to plan your next playthough.'
"Playthrough?? I haven't even made it to winter!"
'That's probably a good thing....you've eaten most of the canned food already'
-Arch Necromancer Morloc
Roland
Community Moderator
Well, there you go. Perhaps the only problem with the A20 farming feature is that they made seeds a bit too plentiful in the world.
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
Just a small nitpick...playing with 25% loot, I've only found (1) corn and (1) chrysanthemum (useless) seed in six days of play. I opted for 25% loot, so I knew what I was getting into, but just pointing out that A20 does change my game quite a bit.
-Arch Necromancer Morloc
Gamida
Hood Ornament
Maybe the server I was on has animals turned down. Haven't seen many of larger animals like wolves and deer. I do see a rabbit now and then but don't bother to chase them as I keep losing them in the grass and use more food chasing than I would get back.@Gamida I am just getting the opposite in my game, swimming in meat (get a wolf delivery just about every night & I'm tripping on chickens & rabbits everywhere!! [SIZE=14.6px][/SIZE]
theFlu
Hunter
That is surprisingly positive, only two at zero though..? hmm. 100 ppl, 2 seeds => 25% of the group gets zero seeds, they'll craft one from the 8 plants => 12 (50%) ppl without a seed, seed from the 4+3 = 7 plants => 6... ok, seems the last one is pretty resilient as you're only losing "20% of a seed per round." Sounds plausible, if a bit surprising
Thanks for the numbers. Then the equivalent droprate at 100% loot would be 8 seeds in six days or 4 additional seeds per farming season! Naturally we don't how far your droprate is from the average.
After spending 55 game days playing A20 I have to say that farming is indeed a complete waste of time now. Less time wasted just cooking boiled meat. No point in even taking chef past 1 because you wont get the cans of food or the crops needed to make the good food. Oh and Super corn is no longer sustainable AT ALL. That was a very heavy nerf bat. And don't reply with math algorithms. Play the game in its current state and you will find farming is a big waste of time now
Roland
Community Moderator
I'd have to hear about what your farming goals are and what level of Living Off The Land you have and what you did to attempt a farm and whether you were going for a large actual farm or just growing stuff in a garden that you find. Just stating that you spent 55 hours and its a waste of time isn't good enough. What exactly did you spend those 55 hours doing to try to farm?
Orclover
Refugee
"...............ya got any bleach nearby?"
Not sure the 7d2d community could handle the Yer bit, Yer done part of PZ. But man the helicopter event would be pretty frigging epic.
But I'd pay cash for that unholy step-child of a DLC mixed up of the two games. Nobody would ever complain again that there weren't enough zombies in the game.
I raised my LOTL to lvl 2 for cheaper farm plots and collected seeds by looting. I spent about 4 hours in total running around collecting rotten flesh. After 22 days I had enough for 60 plots and made those. I had collected 8 potato seeds, 12 corn seeds, 6 coffee seeds and a few other others (flowers and shrooms). In total I had 36 plants growing. Over the course of the next 33 days I kept looting seeds and harvesting my crops and kept turning all my crops back into seeds and replanted. Eventually I didnt have enough potatos to keep making seeds and never ate any of my crops so that wasnt the problem. At day 55 I had the canned food to make stuff with but no crops. I must the most unlucky farmer in 7DTD because I dont get even close to 30% seeds back. So many hours spent on the farm just to have nothing to show for it after 33 days is disheartening. I started a new game to see if it was just bad luck and spent all of my efforts on farming so far and after 8 games days of collecting seeds and rotten flesh I will see if its better
IgnyteZero
Refugee
You seriously think farming should give negative rewards?
And no I'm not saying that. I'm saying the effort/reward curve is off for the early game. And that if you cannot have sustainable farming, what is the point of having it at all? That's what I'm saying.
But I get it. You mods don't think that. And apparently Mad Mole doesn't either. I know when I'm beating a dead horse. I personally think it's bad game design choice, but that's just my opinion. I could continue argue about it, but if it's the intended meta, then so it is. Will probably scare off new players from bothering with farming at all. But we'll see I suppose.
A20 is a great version of the game in all other contexts so far anyway.
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A20 is awesome - great job to TFPs.
Few observations:
Container lag is pretty common when opening pretty much any container or player inventory
Winter biome - made a trip to do a buried supplies quest. Maybe entered 50 meters into the biome...3 cougars and a bear spawned back-to-back-to-back Mad house.
Farming is weird and pretty broken now with anything less than LOTL 3.
Only real lag I've had is when 30+ zeds are spawned on the screen and it's pretty manageable. Have not been to a big dense city downtown yet though.
Few observations:
Container lag is pretty common when opening pretty much any container or player inventory
Winter biome - made a trip to do a buried supplies quest. Maybe entered 50 meters into the biome...3 cougars and a bear spawned back-to-back-to-back Mad house.
Farming is weird and pretty broken now with anything less than LOTL 3.
Only real lag I've had is when 30+ zeds are spawned on the screen and it's pretty manageable. Have not been to a big dense city downtown yet though.
Roland
Community Moderator
So in my post above I talked about the two types of farming. I think that with the current LOTL perk you are only going to be successful at large scale farming at level 3 of the perk. If you would have just stuck to planting seeds and gathering food to use in recipes and never use food to craft more seeds you would have been very successful at farming. To create a self sustaining farm you have to have the full farming skills of level 3 to make seed crafting worth it.
If you plan to try again and still only go to level 2 of LOTL then I recommend trying farming by simply planting whatever seeds you have when you have them and not crafting new seeds and save all your harvested crops for recipes and see how it goes.
Roland
Community Moderator
It only feels negative to you because you are an early access player and experienced a different state of farming before this one. New players are going to come in having no idea that plants used to regrow automatically or that you didn't get a seed back for every single plant. If they are immersed in the post apocalyptic setting they'll even make a connection between only getting partial seeds back to the idea that they aren't farming in 2021 Iowa.
New players also aren't likely to begin by trying to create a sustainable farm like we have done historically. They will plant their seeds and harvest their crops and then plant the seeds they get back plus others they find and harvest those and save the crops to use in recipes and have enough to make some stew to supplement other food they have.
We on the other hand get to adapt to the new normal and realize that sustainable farming that generates crates and crates of food is most likely not going to happen unless we spend the perk points to make it happen. I haven't seen one person disagree that sustainable farms aren't possible with level 3 of LOTL. That is the ultimate state of farming. It is purple level farming and so shouldn't be easy to do without the highest level of the perk.
That being said, I'm just trying to explain the philosophy behind the change. I'm not saying it is perfect as is. Obviously, there is already one change planned for the perk progression. I've got nothing against Madmole changing the 50% seed retention to something more favorable or changing seed harvest to just an automatically regrowing plant or increasing crop yields a bit more. I hope if they pendulum swing away from what it is currently they won't knee jerk it by a lot because I do think that farming before now was just a simpleton's game and resulted in way too much food way too early.
We could be wrong as well. Maybe new players WILL be turned off of farming because they won't think it through carefully and craft all their crops into seeds at a diminishing rate of return and end up with nothing and didn't even know they were supposed to perk into farming at all to be able to be successful with a self sustaining farm. If the outcry is enough TFP may make adjustments in that case. They are unlikely to revert anything in the first full week of experimental on just the initial reactions.
I didnt use any crops for recipes, just re making seeds and my potato plants went from 8 down to 1 just re making seeds, the coffee seams to be giving me a seed about 30% of the time but not my potatos. Mabye code it to garrentee a seed return after 2 crops instead of a big MAYBE every one. Very much a waste of time if you get no seeds from 8 plants in a row. If you want us to just save all seeds until you can speck to LOTL 3 whats the point? So you can finally start a farm at end game???????? Make the seeds a garentee every 2 crops and problem solved.
Roland
Community Moderator
That's the mistake. If you aren't level 3 of LOTL then don't craft seeds. Just keep all the crops you can and only plant the seeds you get back or find in the world. Your farm will wax and wain over time.
Not a waste of time because you got a bunch of crops from it that you can use for recipes. That's like saying the meat you get from killing an animal is a waste of time because you can't use most of it to birth another animal. Of course we never have ever been able to use meat to craft new animals to hunt to get more meat and that is just ridiculous anyway so we therefore feel its okay to only get meat that we use for food. The crops you get from harvesting are worth it for their own value in cooking.
No, plant your seeds and gain the benefit from them. You'll get more seeds later to get your large scale self-sustaining farm once you do spec into LOTL 3. There is more variety now in the farming aspect of the game. You start out just gardening and using every seed you acquire to grow food. Later once you progress to the point where its viable you can start truly farming and crafting seeds and move from a model of harvesting what you need to fulfill daily needs to being able to stockpile in the future.
Post apocalyptic survival gaming shouldn't have guarantees. You should have to adapt to the circumstances that emerge. Get fantastic returns of seeds? Life is happy and fat. Get a season of blighted plants? Figure out how to deal with the consequences. Setbacks and redemptions are what make for interesting stories and memorable playthroughs. "Do you remember that time we ran out of seeds and had to live on all the cat food we had collected until we could get more?" is cooler than "Do you remember how we got a guaranteed seed after two crops? Its going to happen that way this time too."
Personally, I'd feel a lot better about the system if plants had a 50% chance of being replanted on harvest, instead of a 50% chance of dropping a seed.
Insofar as yields go these outcomes are the same, but it would save time and effort replanting things.
In general I'm fine with the overall concept of gardening being less than viable until you max out the perks. By which I mean that 10-20 plants is a garden, not a farm.
Once you approach the scale of an actual farm the RNG averages out and it isn't even an issue.
Maharin
Hunter
Seeds are a LOT easier to find in game now, so I think if you add what you find to what you grown on the farm you can do alright, or at least augment your food supply.
Think of it this way, if you had to rely on farming from scratch in a real apocalypse, how much food would you need at the start to make it work? Results from farming are NOT a day one ROI and shouldn't be... and no guarantees in real life either. This new way is so much better than the old way with all the guarantees of plentiful food.
Think of it this way, if you had to rely on farming from scratch in a real apocalypse, how much food would you need at the start to make it work? Results from farming are NOT a day one ROI and shouldn't be... and no guarantees in real life either. This new way is so much better than the old way with all the guarantees of plentiful food.