PC Farming not very viable even with living off the land 3.
- Thread starter WayneFrancis
- Start date
I know the feeling. 
Orclover
Refugee
Man, this has got to change ....
Ok just a few hours ago I was dealing with hunger tossing any canned food I could at along with red tea, I had to make a run to a far trader to pick up a motorcycle chasis but was out of food. I just had red tea and yucca juice. Along the way RNGeezus gifted me a elk and a pig! I killed them without problem and chopped them up with a knife, my hunger went so far into red I started losing health. I made a fire pit and cooked up a WHOLE ELK and a WHOLE PIG (without skills mind you) and it, slowly, while drinking anti-hunger red tea.......a pig and a deer. All of it. I went red....to orange. Thats it. Less than 10 minutes later, it went back to red. No dysentery involved.
I am not a fan of the current hunger system. If I sat down and ate a whole cooked pig and a whole cooked deer I WOULD DIE! on the spot I WOULD DIE, from EXPLODING STOMACH!!!!!!!!!! I would literally burst. What I would not be........IS HUNGRY!
My son took 2 points of iron gut perk, he swears its a placebo that does nothing and wants his points back.
An obvious improvement is to just half the distance between LotL 1 and 3 for LotL 2, so LotL 2 gives back 5 produce.
The improvement I would definitely do too is to leave returning seeds in their pots. That means still half the plots have to be refilled which is a good compromise between lazy non-farmers and true farmers as defined by Roland
Maybe those pigs and deer have very little usable meat as they may be infected or deseased. Anyway if you made charred meat you won't get far. You need to be able to cook grilled meat or better cooked meat, and also loot nests for eggs to make bacon&eggs. Then you won't be that hungry after an elk and a pig.
Are you running and wearing heavy armor? That sucks food right out of you
The improvement I would definitely do too is to leave returning seeds in their pots. That means still half the plots have to be refilled which is a good compromise between lazy non-farmers and true farmers as defined by Roland
Maybe those pigs and deer have very little usable meat as they may be infected or deseased. Anyway if you made charred meat you won't get far. You need to be able to cook grilled meat or better cooked meat, and also loot nests for eggs to make bacon&eggs. Then you won't be that hungry after an elk and a pig.
Are you running and wearing heavy armor? That sucks food right out of you
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theFlu
Hunter
The exact numbers evade me, but the minimum for a larger animal is 20 meat, so you had at least 40 = 8 charred meat. Probably a little more. Each should give 10 food, getting you up by 80 in total. The hunger meter grows by levels, but I think 80 shouldn't be on the yellow before something like level 60.. how high were you?
Roland
Community Moderator
It wasn't a whole Elk and Pig. Without skills you wasted most of the meat and charred the rest to smithereens. As for iron gut, it offends me to take that perk as long as they have breath holding attached to it while water and player movement in the water is in the state it is. I hope someday that holding your breath for a long time is actually useful...
TFP seems to go back and forth every other alpha on how heavy-handed they are with hunger. Every time in the past when people complained about maintaining fullness they relaxed things and made it easier (yeah yeah I know...its not challenging its just tedious). I wonder what will happen this time. Will they start feeling the pressure to ease up on food consumption again or stick to their guns?
My guess is they will moderate things again like they have every time in the past.
The exact numbers evade me, but the minimum for a larger animal is 20 meat, so you had at least 40 = 8 charred meat. Probably a little more. Each should give 10 food, getting you up by 80 in total. The hunger meter grows by levels, but I think 80 shouldn't be on the yellow before something like level 60.. how high were you?
Oops, just checked and even charred meat doesn't look so bad anymore with 10 food value. Wasn't it 5 once?
theFlu
Hunter
hiemfire
Refugee
BFT2020
Hunter
This is assuming worst case that you lose every seed every time you harvest, which is not going to happen all the time.
And sometimes right now is 50%. So on average you will be getting half your plants back as seeds (when aggregated over time: sometimes you will get 2 back out of 10, sometimes 8 out of 10; but over time it comes out to 50%).
Even if you are the unluckiest person in the world, the system will eventually catch up:
- Perk 3 - 6 per harvest (5 to make seeds)
10 plants - 1st harvest 60 veggies, no seeds, turn all to seeds - 12 seeds
- 12 plants - 1st harvest 72 veggies, no seeds, turn all to seeds - 14 seeds, 2 in the bank
- 14 plants - 1st harvest 84 veggies, no seeds, turn all into seeds - 17 seeds, 1 in the bank
- 17 plants - 1st harvest 102 veggies, no seeds.....
If you don't increase the number of plants each planting (say once you reach 10 plants), you will still gain 10 veggies each harvest....
Throw in the fact that seeds drop more during looting and you will be fine. The thing is (especially if you are playing MP), your group needs to bring those seeds back if they are out looting and you are serious about making a farm, they can't just toss them out to get the 'good' stuff. And the farmer of the group? They now have to actually invest perk points into LotL to be viable (instead of A19 where you can eventually get a self sustaining farm with zero investment in the perks).
You can see where I am going with this.
Yes, as I said, this current iteration sucks, as clearly demonstrated by what you've written out above....
This is particularly true when recipes need multiple of each ingredient, not just one.
Actually, for my reward for completing tier 3 of quests, I got a Farm Bundle 03 (or Seed Bundle or whatever it's called) and got 3 plots and 3 seeds out of it, one of which was super corn. Now obviously I'd never harvest that seed before having LotL 3, which to me seems like not great design. Admittedly, I did later find Bob's Boars (haven't raided it yet) but getting to run it repeatedly due to quests seems fairly unlikely, as I don't think I've been sent to the same POI twice for a quest yet and I'm midway through tier 4 and live in a medium sized town (not skyscrapers or anything, but a relatively built up town center.)
I guess my real issue is that if you find few of a seed/vegetable (in my case mushrooms and pumpkins) without at least LotL 3, RNG can screw you if you only have a single seed (or even 2) to start with.
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I got a POI twice already, but generally the POI selection is much better this time.
If you already decided to eventually get LotL3, then keeping a single seed is the safe route. If you don't intend to then you might as well gamble on getting more than measly 4 or 8 supercorn
Darklegend222
Refugee
That's the point, we're robust farmers growing crops from FLESH. FLESH I say!
Food, seeds, and crops require perks to get better and better at. Corn on the cob and corn bread give 10 food, same with cooked potatoes. There's no reason to be starting an "early game" farm, save it all for end-game foods like meat stew, vegetable stew, and chili dogs, the great foods. Have you explored the outer rims of towns? There are literally hundreds of corn stalks and the odd berries/potato farms you can take from.
Not to mention that loot from shamway crates has a very good chance of giving veggies and seeds, your highly encouraged to loot seeds and to become a master farmer if that's what you want. I've ALWAYS put 3 perks in LotL, it's stupid not to if you want to grow a sustaining farm, especially in a group. The only tedious things is that crops don't replant, so I think the developers should work on implementing a feature that if a crop gives a seed, it will instead replant itself to save 50% of the hassle.
Your not going to be eating chili dogs, blueberry pies or the likes sustainably on any 7 days save before the first horde, your gonna be chowing down on what vending machines and traders offer. The animals you kill for bacon and eggs is the next best thing! I believe this is being thrown massively out of proportion. I used to have a chest full of blueberry pies and vegetable stew because of the MASS amounts of plants we had. It would take 2 hours in game at 90 minute days to harvest it all, and we only needed about 20 of each plant for 4 people.
I think this is a good mechanic because not only does it require me to have the same specs as before, we also get MORE than what A19.6 offered and that's absolutely amazing! Plus it makes sense since we are literally growing crops from.. FLESH! It's not the best resource in the world, this isn't fertilized soil with that ultra-grow 4000 and we can only hope to be master farmers.
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IgnyteZero
Refugee
But that's the point, isn't it? If there's no economy in trying to start a farm before you have LotL 3, why even have 3 skill levels for it? Just have one and gate it higher in that case.
No, you should be able to start a farm early on, even if you don't produce much. I still think the easiest answer lies in adjusting the seed loss percentage slightly somehow, with say LotL 2 at least having a 60-70% chance to keep seeds and maybe just gate LotL3 a bit higher. Or add a random chance to sometimes get an extra seed back also, such as 20% with LotL 1, 40% with Lotl 2 and 3. Something like that. (These numbers are not calculated, they're just to demonstrate my line of thinking).
Also, because of RNG not all starting towns have those fields. In our game there was NO potato or corn field at all in our starting town. Once we got to the nearby towns however there was an abundance of corn fields.
While that exercise might amuse you on a personal level, I fail to see the point. Of course we can come up with any new system or way to balance it better, the only limit is imagination there. But seconding guess what TFP is thinking on the matter? That's just weird. But you have one suggestion above. Hope it entertains you.
Happy to hear they are adressing the issue and aim to rebalance it though.
Lets hope not.
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Roland
Community Moderator
If the pattern holds in your posting style, you like to write douchebagish stuff like this first and then apologize afterward <shrug>
Sharing ideas and opinions about how people would like features to be like is a pretty frequent exercise around here and if people thought second guessing what the devs planned was weird we wouldn’t read the oft posted excited boast of “I’ve been saying the devs should do that for the past three alphas!” whenever the devs do something that someone second guessed.
I suppose trying to guess what adjustment might be in store could be seen as pointless, though, so we probably should just get back to the super productive complaining….
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IgnyteZero
Refugee
Well, I found your post douchebag-ish hence that reply. It had this atmosphere of "You think you know better than the devs"? Maybe that wasn't your intention then, but that is how you came off to me with that post. And that's why I went defensive.
And my point was that second guessing indeed is pointless. Giving feedback ("complaints") or suggestions is another thing entirely though.
But we're going OT, so I'm leaving it at that. You don't need to like me, but I'm here to give honest feedback on my gaming experiences with 7dtd.