FranticDan
Well-known member
I'm not a fan of the ability to craft Q6, it kills looting once you're able to. Unlocking Q6 armour on day 24, every time I find armour its like, this is useless to me now. There's no more excitement in looting
PC Everybody wanted Traders nerfed
- Thread starter zombiehunter
- Start date
RipClaw
Well-known member
In A21 there were a lot of posts saying that traders, quest rewards and looting are too powerful and are killing crafting. Now the roles are swapped.
binf_shinana
New member
In a21, crafting was still the fastest way to get access to T3 weapons, but the specifications for magazine appearance rates were not well known to the general player, and many players first obtained T3 equipment as a reward from traders.
In other words, the magazine system was very confusing for many beginner players (and even some veteran players).
All the players I taught about it said the same thing: "I never thought that taking the Master Chef skill would make it harder to get gun magazines!"
Therefore, since the safety net for obtaining weapons from traders has been weakened in 1.0, I think it will be more difficult for beginners who do not yet understand the specifications of magazines than in a21.
For me, the fun of looting was already gone in a21, so there is not much difference, for better or worse.
In other words, the magazine system was very confusing for many beginner players (and even some veteran players).
All the players I taught about it said the same thing: "I never thought that taking the Master Chef skill would make it harder to get gun magazines!"
Therefore, since the safety net for obtaining weapons from traders has been weakened in 1.0, I think it will be more difficult for beginners who do not yet understand the specifications of magazines than in a21.
For me, the fun of looting was already gone in a21, so there is not much difference, for better or worse.
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Scyris
New member
Neither did I, I miss being able to get tools and weapons as rewards, mind you they DID need to scale down what tiers appear, as t3 quests should not be giving tier 3 ish steel tools, maybe tier 4 has a chance of a t1-2. Instead of tweaking the values, they basically brute forced it and just removed all equipment from it, as well as lowered the duke rewards.
FranticDan
Well-known member
I barely used traders in A21, I love playing it like we did in the legacy alpha's, earn your loot and progression the hard way
IMO looting was the only one with a fitting dependable progression, and conesquently loot-tables were not changed (except for different reasons like new items, ...) in 1.0, AFAIK. Crafting was too slow if you played "naturally" and distributed your points or too fast if you perked with hidden knowledge which a normal player had nearly no chance to know. And only the trader mostly in combination with INT perks (especially DA) was hyperfast.
Some players attributed quest rewards to looting and therefore said looting was too fast. I disagree, quests are part of the trader loop. My group got all their end-game stuff either from rewards or bought them off the trader with money mostly from rewards and selling items for too many dukes
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Kalen
New member
Thats because item degradation is no longer a thing. When it was, there was reason to keep looting/crafting because you knew eventually you'd need to replace gear.
Fenris
New member
Agreed. I always think it's a bad choice to let players make the best items. With how easy it is to get legendary parts, being able to make Q6 items just destroys any reason to loot, salvage , ..... leave the base, etc. By day 6 on my current playthrough I had 6 legendary parts. One I stole from Rekt, at least two where taken out of trash piles on the ground, and the rest in various containers you wouldn't expect to find them in.
I mean it was always annoying to loot that Q6 steel spear (was always that stupid spear for me) in the past since I never used a spear. But when I found the Q6 item I used that was a great feeling. Now you can just make one from parts I find in the trash. I do think legendary parts should only be found in end loot chests, with a small chance at lower tiers and a slightly large one at higher tiers.
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Rotor
Well-known member
I disagree and posit that if traders were removed, you would need to loot or craft everything.
Most of the problems would be resolved
.
Fenris
New member
You didn't have to buy from traders. In fact in a lot of my games in the past I only showed up to the trader to get the first quest done, and then never again.I disagree and posit that if traders were removed, you would need to loot or craft everything.
Most of the problems would be resolved
Rotor
Well-known member
I know, I dont. Just saying that letting someone craft stuph doesnt preclude you from looting.
Sounds like a nerf to Q6 parts is more what is needed. Afterall they nerfed water jars (yes, dead horse, I will flog it a while longer).
I am the odd one that walks around for days looking for bicycle parts, etc. So, yes, I want to craft everything........including the freaking water filter.
Yes, when I can play I use crafted water filter mod in A21.
Sounds like a nerf to Q6 parts is more what is needed. Afterall they nerfed water jars (yes, dead horse, I will flog it a while longer).
I am the odd one that walks around for days looking for bicycle parts, etc. So, yes, I want to craft everything........including the freaking water filter.
Yes, when I can play I use crafted water filter mod in A21.
Trader quest rewards were definitely overboard in previous versions. That said the nerf to them in 1.0 is pretty incredible. I've had over 150 quest turn-ins so far and only had a half dozen times or so where I was really happy with the reward. Most of the time it feels like a slap in the face. The showcased reward isn't all that terrible so far as they go, as there is at least a legendary part on offer, and the two magazines could possibly be worth something if you didn't have them already, and are worth a hundred dukes if nothing else. A small partial stack of ammunition at that stage of the game though is pretty worthless. I think the most amusing rewards though are the single servings of a low quality food like bacon and eggs. It feels like the quality of reward range is just way to broad and should have the low end brought up significantly and the stack sizes for things like ammo and food increased.
warmer
Well-known member
You shouldn't use words like "everybody" to describe some people. I certainly didn't want it nerfed. 6000 dukes and 36k xp is a damn fine reward. If you are just talking about the actual items, that is secondary to the dukes and xp.
My opinion is the same.
Nerfing means reducing options and taking away choices. Better belancing? YES!
The pimps could do so many good things to improve the trader:
If your lootstage and or traderqueststage is below item quality, then prices should be doubled or trippled.
Progressionitems like vehicles, magzines or beaker should be always available, but also at increased prices and yes if your gamestage is to low, the price should be 5-10 times the normel price. Why? Because now you might have goals, ("only 50k more dukes for that beatufiul motorcycle) and you have to do tough choices. 750 dukes for that vehicle magazine or food, so I might not starve to death?
Mister Forgash
New member
I think the trader balancing is, overall, better than ever, but just needs more work. I agree quest rewards aren't quite there yet- Too often I think 'why bother' when I see the options: Bullets I wont use, food that will rot in my lootbox, or a single farming book. I think I'd rather see gunpowder/casings over bullets and remove single mags from the reward pool in favor of the mag bundles.. but as far as trader inventory stock progression, I've been really happy- With an exception I feel higher quality/level goods should be more expensive.
Edit: I'd also like to see more things like forged iron, clay, cobble stone etc.
Edit: I'd also like to see more things like forged iron, clay, cobble stone etc.
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Remember that if you play in a group you ALL get the reward but you can do such a quest much faster and easier than a single player. Therefore a bigger reward would upset the balance between single player and multiplayer. This is probably a reason for TFP to tune the reward down so much, no matter how much that change is liked or not liked.
Ammo is always in need. If you have too much ammo just play a difficulty step higher where you need more bullets for each zombie, eventually there should be a point where you are happy about ammo, no matter how much.
Naturally this now feels like a big nerf since everybody is used to getting showered with gifts by the trader. In a short time you will get used to it and see it as the cherry on top of a cake that is the POI itself. And at that point you might actually enjoy visiting a POI nearby without a quest, just because it looks interesting. In previous alphas there was always this thought in the back of my mind that I was loosing out on the big trader reward if I looted a non-quest POI.
zombiehunter
New member
You are right and that is why I posted this yesterday:
I should not have said "everybody." I should have said "many players."
Perhaps you didn't see that post.
The game isn't supposed to be balanced for multiplayer, as solo is the intended balance point. If they want to add a bit of code to use a separate loot pool when there are more than one players turning in the same quest, that's fine by me. If they did that they could even split the coin and exp as well.
In the first week or two 50 rounds of ammo isn't a total waste, especially if it's the proper caliber. But by the time you're doing T4's and better you probably have the capacity to pump out ammunition of whatever type you need in full stacks, if not boxes. Ammo of the wrong type usually just piles up and eventually gets sold, but with the nerfs to buy and sell prices ammo is hardly worth holding to sell. The people talking about ammo scarcity always confuse me, I've never noticed a shortage of ammo after the first week or two, are ya'll just praying and spraying for body shots of something. Rads can soak up a lot of rounds, even as headshots. Maybe I just melee more than most people, I usually save the guns for hairy spots and horde nights, or when I'm really just trying to rush a PoI ASAP.
In the first week or two 50 rounds of ammo isn't a total waste, especially if it's the proper caliber. But by the time you're doing T4's and better you probably have the capacity to pump out ammunition of whatever type you need in full stacks, if not boxes. Ammo of the wrong type usually just piles up and eventually gets sold, but with the nerfs to buy and sell prices ammo is hardly worth holding to sell. The people talking about ammo scarcity always confuse me, I've never noticed a shortage of ammo after the first week or two, are ya'll just praying and spraying for body shots of something. Rads can soak up a lot of rounds, even as headshots. Maybe I just melee more than most people, I usually save the guns for hairy spots and horde nights, or when I'm really just trying to rush a PoI ASAP.