EULA / ToS Question

PurgatoryWolf

PurgatoryWolf

New member
So a new pop up came up today, and in it was;

VI. SERVER DONATIONSAnyone who has purchased or has received a gift or press release copy of the game has permission to receive server donations from players. Server owners MAY NOT charge hard currency (tangible money such as cash, credit, bitcoin, etc. that has monetary value) for soft currency (in game currency that has no monetary value) or in game items. Server owners MAY allow priority access to players that make a donation.
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Does this mean we can no longer offer things like reduced cooldowns for teleports, zcoin earnings increase, extra zgates, and zcoin lump sums, as perks for donating? (these are available to 7d2d servers that use CBSM/Envul)

 
Yeah, this is one of those really thin lines. It is acceptable to a point.

We had a discussion on this a while ago when a particular server was basically making it so you had to pony up cash to play on it. That was deemed not acceptable.

I'll have to give Roland and the team a poke to get you a more definitive answer on it.

 
The pimps position I thought was pretty clear on this? Server maintenance yes, anything game related no?

 
Well, I still wanted to ask and get a definitive answer from them.

Incase they don't know what zcoins are, they are a intangible points that people earn by being logged into the game, and for killing zombies. I think the standard is like 0.01 per 10 minutes logged in, and 0.25 per zombie kill, a little more for 1 shot kills, and a little less for trap damaged zombies. These coins can be used, on our server, for making a home location (cost of 1 coin) and the ability to teleport to that location every 30 minutes (cost of 1 coin). You can also create zgates (cost of 50 coins), which are teleport locations that you can make private for yourself, or public for anyone to use. You can teleport to zgates every 5 minutes (cost of 5 coins). We also have a /gimmie which will give players 3 food/drink items (cost 1 coin), which can be used every 30 minutes. And there is /grab lcb (cost 1 coin), which lets players pick up their own Land Claim Block, instead of having to "break it" to pick it up. You also lost 5 coins each time you die.

Players are able to trade zcoins with each other, but the cooldowns and % gain are player specific and cannot be traded.

The way we had donation perks set up, was depending on how much you wanted to donate, you would have your home and zgate cooldowns removed, you would get a bonus to your zcoin gain % from kills, and you were given set amounts of zcoins to use as you wished.

As zcoins are not actually part of the game, but added in through a "mod", so to speak, would that still fall under the Tos that I previously posted about? Or does it not matter it's not put in by TFP, being in the mod, is still being in the game?

Could we just remove the zcoin gift, and leave the cooldowns and bonus % gain as donation perks? Or would that still be counted as "soft currency/items" even tho those cannot be traded?

We'd love to know, so we can figure out what to do about our donations, because it does kinda suck that we wouldn't be able to thank our donors with something special. :(

 
So zcoins can be used to improve your game experience, and you can basically pay real $$ for zcoins. Thus, money for a better game experience. Doesn't matter how many layers you hide in in, the net result is the same.

You're not likely to get a pimp in here, because the topic has been covered by them, but good luck.

...the reality is though, I doubt they'd come after you.

I suspect though, that if you removed the vanilla game asset gains (food/drink items), you'd be fine, because then you'd only be "charging" for teleports, etc, which are part of the mod.

It's all about the assets. If you're charging people for assets, it's a violation.

But I still wouldn't worry about it too much homie. :)

 
Worst case they get a little email asking them to stop. But that would mean TFP would even have to notice the server exists. Which would mean someone would not only have to tell them, but make a complaint.

...but, I get it.

In lieu of that, the server web page can give props to donors, you can assign them different chat colors, give them some admin capabilities, etc...

 
The thought is that the license does permit the server owner to recoup reasonable operating expenses involved in the running of that server via donations, which can be offered with or without in-game perks. Paid perks that reward players with a vastly superior advantage over others, or that are required for enjoyment of the experience would be frowned upon though. As would outright charging people to play on the server.

As I stated before, it is a very fine line. We had a long discussion about it in February, and offered up some modifications to the ToS. That then needs to be disseminated and approved by TFP, and then again gone through further with their lawyers for final changes and modifications. I have no idea how long that would take, or if they are even going to worry about it much before they are getting ready for final release.

Now if we break it down directly....

Server owners MAY NOT charge hard currency (tangible money such as cash, credit, bitcoin, etc. that has monetary value) for soft currency (in game currency that has no monetary value) or in game items.

Basically, you can't direct convert real money for digital or direct items. (i.e. selling a 600 quality pickaxe for $3.)

Server owners MAY allow priority access to players that make a donation.

 


This allows you to give donators reserved access slots, or extra features provided by your server manager. Again though, it is a thin line.

 
So you think removal of teleport cooldowns, and % kill gains would be okay then?

Everyone has access to making and using the zgates, and has the ability to collect the zcoins. the perks would only increase earnings from like .25 coins a kill to roughly .30 coins per kill, and remove the cool down from the teleport system. It's a quality of life increase, but not really a superior advantage in playing the game itself. (most people use gates to allow people to come to their vending machines, or to a trader, or for group hordenight bases.)

We don't really have a priority access system right now, as server population has dwindled a bit as people wait for a17.

 
I'm not an attorney. My take on it is that to be safe you should eliminate the reward of a zCoin package, and possibly increase the zCoin boost % to compensate. Might also consider adding more variety to what's in the shop, so if somebody donates and plays on your server a lot they can get the exact types of armor and clothing that they want.

Sure, a skirt is great for staying cool, but do you really want to have your male character wearing one because they haven't looted a decent quality pair of shorts yet?

 
Here's what I know. The EULA you quoted in the top post is the same EULA the game has always had (source: https://7daystodie.com/eula). Nothing is new; nothing has changed. I also know the issues you raise have been the subject of TFP staff discussion in the past, as Sylen alludes to. Lastly, I know this thread in particular has been brought to people's attention, and at least one TFP staff member has seen it.

Unfortunately that's as far as I can go as moderator. I've seen TFP staff write in no uncertain terms that they're philosophically opposed to pay-to-win. If one is concerned with how TFP would prefer things to be, this would seem relevant. But as for specifics on how the current EULA should be interpreted, we don't have a clear directive on that. So hopefully TFP staff can provide further clarity at some point.

 
I think donations for a priority slot is a good idea. Server managers allow teleporting, grab bags and other such things useful in the game, imho all things allowed by the owner/admins should be available to all players. A perk for being a doner would be a shorter cool down time to use the commands. For example, Botman has a /setbase command, it lets you set your base and when you're out and about hunting/gathering you can do a /home and it will teleport you back to your base. I allow this with no cooldown on my pve server, however, on my pvp server, there's an 8 hour cool down. If I took donations and gave someone donor level in Botman, it would cut down the cool down time to 4 hours. Everyone has access to those commands, but donors just get to use them more often. Another idea, Botman has a currency known as zennies, I don't use them, but if someone did, they could set it up that commands use zennies and donors cost for using said commands would be half the price of a regular non donor player. I've had to spend money on my server for some issues, I self host, and I had players want to donate. I haven't taken any donations because I don't to feel I owe people anything. Most people would like to chip in when and what they can, but you get that 1 person who thinks because they freely donated some money that you owe them the world. To me that's not worth the hassle. But there's my .02c

 
That's what I was asking. I understand the no goods for cash thing, which would mean no item gifts or goodie bags, but reduced cooldowns on commands everyone can do.

 
I think donations for a priority slot is a good idea. Server managers allow teleporting, grab bags and other such things useful in the game, imho all things allowed by the owner/admins should be available to all players. A perk for being a doner would be a shorter cool down time to use the commands. For example, Botman has a /setbase command, it lets you set your base and when you're out and about hunting/gathering you can do a /home and it will teleport you back to your base. I allow this with no cooldown on my pve server, however, on my pvp server, there's an 8 hour cool down. If I took donations and gave someone donor level in Botman, it would cut down the cool down time to 4 hours. Everyone has access to those commands, but donors just get to use them more often. Another idea, Botman has a currency known as zennies, I don't use them, but if someone did, they could set it up that commands use zennies and donors cost for using said commands would be half the price of a regular non donor player. I've had to spend money on my server for some issues, I self host, and I had players want to donate. I haven't taken any donations because I don't to feel I owe people anything. Most people would like to chip in when and what they can, but you get that 1 person who thinks because they freely donated some money that you owe them the world. To me that's not worth the hassle. But there's my .02c
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Wait a minute... How do you 'put in' your "zero point zero 2 cents" in? That's 1/50 of a penny!!! lol

I have it in my head that all the 'server issues' were all related to 'public servers' but I can't find anything on that... Someone point me in the right direction?

 
Server issues are server issues whether they are public (open to anyone) or private (pw protected). Even if private, if you charge to play, it's in violation of the agreement you agreed to by purchasing the game or running a server.

 
Our server is public. (also, allowing donors to have a guaranteed slot / priority access on the server feels kinda like pay to get in to me.)

This is what our Perks used to be:

Perk Level 1; $5; 10 zCoins added to your wallet. External Map access (if requested)

Perk Level 2; $10; 50 zCoins added to your wallet. 5% zCoins Bonus on Zombie Kills. External Map access (if requested)

Perk Level 3; $20; 100 zCoins added to your wallet. 15% zCoins Bonus on Zombie Kills. Avoid zCoin Death Penalty. External Map access (if requested)

Perk Level 4; $30; 150 zCoins added to your wallet. 25% zCoins Bonus on Zombie Kills. Avoid zCoin Death Penalty. Ignore Teleport Cooldowns. A Tazas Stone Axe (if requested). External Map access (if requested)
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Here is what we are discussing to change it to now;

For helping keeping our servers running via a donation, we offer perks only on the 7 Days to Die servers via a MOD. These perks only change what the MOD brings to the game, and does not offer any in game monies or items, only the behavior of certain aspects of the MOD. What is offered:

Perk Level 1 – $5 -- External Map Access

Perk Level 2 – $10 -- 5% zCoin Bonus on Zombie Kills, External Map Access

Perk Level 3 – $20 -- 15% zCoin Bonus on Zombie Kills, Avoid zCoin Death Penalty, External Map Access

Perk Level 4 – $30 -- 25% zCoin Bonus on Zombie Kills, Avoid zCoin Death Penalty, Ignore teleport cooldowns, Ignore teleport delays, External Map Access
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We Removed the Taza's Axe, since it's an in-game item, and removed the zCoin lump sum, since it could be considered a tradeable currency, even tho it's only through the mod.

Would this be ok?

 
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