PC Endgame activities?

[Ramethzer0]

this change of "rules" - like coh3   total war,dow2 retribution  etc. Just more advanced change of difficulty 

But this is not endgame - terraria have rly good endgame, some ff. 

For me 7dtd went from horror into  RUST or ARK

You come at me like somehow I was arguing what Endgame content was.

Yes, its a change of playstyle, Sherlock.

But if you want to argue semantics, let's do that:

Rust and ARK both have their nuances, but the Horror Genre that you are propping up also doesn't technically have a defined end point in terms of gameplay.   Without a storyline the goalposts are moved towards something a little more subtle.  Now, Survival Horror as a genre does have a point to it, and it's written on the tin.  Survival.  Survival means you end the game when you want to end the game.  You die.  You come back.  You can choose how to deal or mitigate when you reach that point of liminal space.  If you keep surviving, then you've skipped the notion of accepting death.   Therefore, death IS the endgame.   You get to choose how you meet that point, and what to do when you get there.  At least with ARK there comes a defining point at which you get to decide to ascend or not.

I would seriously caution you to not put everything into neat little bite sized boxes.   Nuance is the mother of all precedents.  And Assumption is the mother of all *&%#ups.

 

[Matt115]

You come at me like somehow I was arguing what Endgame content was.

Yes, its a change of playstyle, Sherlock.

But if you want to argue semantics, let's do that:

Rust and ARK both have their nuances, but the Horror Genre that you are propping up also doesn't technically have a defined end point in terms of gameplay.   Without a storyline the goalposts are moved towards something a little more subtle.  Now, Survival Horror as a genre does have a point to it, and it's written on the tin.  Survival.  Survival means you end the game when you want to end the game.  You die.  You come back.  You can choose how to deal or mitigate when you reach that point of liminal space.  If you keep surviving, then you've skipped the notion of accepting death.   Therefore, death IS the endgame.   You get to choose how you meet that point, and what to do when you get there.  At least with ARK there comes a defining point at which you get to decide to ascend or not.

I would seriously caution you to not put everything into neat little bite sized boxes.   Nuance is the mother of all precedents.  And Assumption is the mother of all *&%#ups.

God no. It doesn't need to have story to have for example bosses - honestly don't starve have only "simple story" that's say as 7dtd- minecraft have dragon as final boss - when you kill him you can get wings. So this is endgame item for example. you can die in anytime so this is not endgame. 

 

[Ramethzer0]

God no. It doesn't need to have story to have for example bosses - honestly don't starve have only "simple story" that's say as 7dtd- minecraft have dragon as final boss - when you kill him you can get wings. So this is endgame item for example. you can die in anytime so this is not endgame. 

I mean you can keep doubling down but all I see is you missing the forest for the trees based upon a preconceived notion of what you think this game should be, instead of what it actually is.  At some point you're going to have to reconcile the differences instead of leaning into them.

 

[White-Gandalf]

Speaking of securing a large area. Do you know or could you find out if putting down player blocks will stop zombies from spawning on them. I have heard sometimes it doesn't work. Would be nice for those areas sligltly larger than your land claim area.

I was thinking along the lines of digging up the ground around the area and replacing it with something like dirt blocks.

Since A16 - i believe -, the attribute "CanMobsSpawnOn" is off by default. Thus, all blocks that are player made will not allow any zombies - Bloodmoon as well as random spawns - to spawn on them. Only blocks that are explicitly marked as "CanMobsSpawnOn" will allow those spawns. The player made block has to be the highest in the column from bedrock to ceiling.

Those blocks, however, do not suppress spawns in POI's.

Thus, you can suppress Bloodmoon hordes as well as all random spawns including screamers by sealing a huge enough area with player made blocks (f.e. woodframes).

 

[White-Gandalf]

Survive 7 days without needing to kill a zombie 

That would be an interesting end game achievement of sorts. This means you have crafted a self sustaining base and that in an of itself is my personal "win" goal when I play 7 days to die. If I can survive and get everything I need without leaving my land claim for 7 days, and without killing a single zombie myself, then the game has ceased to be a challenge, and in a certain sense, you have beaten it.

Well: that's usually the way i START the game. I never go into POI's as long as i am not strong enough to do so, and i am usually not strong enough until after several weeks. Since i always play permadeath style survival with always running (at least jogging) zombies, death in a POI or in the wilderness is simply no option, while hiding and stealthiness is an absolute must. Self sufficiency is the precursor of adventuring.

But to secure the environment of a whole city with a far stretched network of traps or autoturrets is for sure something for end game.

 

[8_Hussars]

The Fun Pimps have a big problem in that they are tied to the kickstarter campaign and there is no overarching end game to keep players interested.

When I think of it the game transitions a bit like an abridged Maslow's hierarchy of Needs.

Early Game is about survival; establishing physiological security via a food supply and shelter.  With the loot linked to Game Stage TFP try to draw out the early game.  A lot of veteran players find starting over tedious at best.  The "tutorial" definitely should be on a switch or a way to autocomplete  (give me my four skill points and point me to the trader)

Mid game is about increasing safety through collecting of resources, increasing safety (through skills and looting), and supporting and expanding physiological security.  This is the hard core grinding phase.  The only reason we are grinding and mining is to build a bigger base.  Take that part out and all we do is loot and explore and gather enough to repair and maintain.

Late game is about achievement (builds, raids, storage, exploration, etc) and confidence in a players own abilities in the game (loot at night, increase zombie speeds, increase zombie amounts, play harder biomes, etc.) at this point all a player needs is to acquire enough resources to maintain the status quo.

End game (self actualization) is ... missing.  It exists for the content creators through videos and streaming but not for the player base in general.  Thus the appeal of the Darkness Falls overhaul (and others) as it has an actual end point.  Players can beat the game.

There is enough variety in the vanilla game and mods to keep a lot of players cycling through the first three levels including myself.  But there is a class of players that have other (and often better) games to scratch the first three needs individually.  In this case the tower defence, crafting, combat, RPG goals spread the game thin.  Obviously many like the breadth of the game but many also call it out for its thinness.


Random Thoughts

There was another discussion with a proposal to adjust the "quest rewards" to include skill benefits.  Like +1 Parkour for example, or if you already have it some arbitrary buff or maybe you could pick a recipe.  Something not overpowering but could assist in character development.  I would almost create a new skill currency (abilities) and put some QOL abilities as "rewards".  Like "Grandfathers Farm"  you remember your grandfathers farm and can harvest 2 corn (without "living off the land") or "Coffee @%$#" you're sick getting the office coffee order but you can manage to pour hot water over some grounds and can make coffee (without Master Chef perk) or "High School Sports"  Not as good as Al Bundy but you can do the Fossberry flop (+1 extra meter to no fall damage)

I would like to see true bartering introduced with the traders rather than quest/reward loops (and keep some store items (maybe for secret stash).  Want this crucible?  Do me 4X Tier 4 clears.  Want this bike chassis?  I need 4X Blunderbusses and a pistol.  Want this recipe? I need 40 rounds of 9mm.  All balanced of course and using TFP bathroom humour.

Not of that these really addressees the end game but it may add some depth to the journey,

 

[Slaasher]

So I've been playing 7DTD since Alpha 11 and is by far my favorite game. I mainly play Co-op with my wife, but also play solo here and there. A problem we've had with A18-A19 is getting board after day 30-40ish

For me, at a certain point it's all about building things.  I love renovating buildings and either renovating them or rebuilding them entirely.

One of the reasons that I am 100% in support of this Alpha 20 release. 

MORE building shtuff. It's so much fun.

This is one of buildings that I am renovating right now. I've gone a lot further in it but i cant seem to find the latest pics.

The inside is a total reno job. I am up to floor # 3 now.

In the garage portion of the building (which you cant see) I have built a mine that goes all the way to the earth base. I think I am mining all of my stuff there now.

A TON of materials have gone into this so far

 

[meganoth]

The Fun Pimps have a big problem in that they are tied to the kickstarter campaign and there is no overarching end game to keep players interested.

I very much doubt that they see this as a problem since they have "solved" it years ago, just not implemented yet. I have seen actual props of this end game story in vanilla since I have been playing this game. And I think even the kickstarter already talks about the "white river and the duke" story line that will surely end in the demise of one of them at least.

When I think of it the game transitions a bit like an abridged Maslow's hierarchy of Needs.

Early Game is about survival; establishing physiological security via a food supply and shelter.  With the loot linked to Game Stage TFP try to draw out the early game.  A lot of veteran players find starting over tedious at best.  The "tutorial" definitely should be on a switch or a way to autocomplete  (give me my four skill points and point me to the trader)

Mid game is about increasing safety through collecting of resources, increasing safety (through skills and looting), and supporting and expanding physiological security.  This is the hard core grinding phase.  The only reason we are grinding and mining is to build a bigger base.  Take that part out and all we do is loot and explore and gather enough to repair and maintain.

Late game is about achievement (builds, raids, storage, exploration, etc) and confidence in a players own abilities in the game (loot at night, increase zombie speeds, increase zombie amounts, play harder biomes, etc.) at this point all a player needs is to acquire enough resources to maintain the status quo.

End game (self actualization) is ... missing.  It exists for the content creators through videos and streaming but not for the player base in general.  Thus the appeal of the Darkness Falls overhaul (and others) as it has an actual end point.  Players can beat the game.

Never heard of this phase being called "self actualization" but I like it.

There is enough variety in the vanilla game and mods to keep a lot of players cycling through the first three levels including myself.  But there is a class of players that have other (and often better) games to scratch the first three needs individually.  In this case the tower defence, crafting, combat, RPG goals spread the game thin.  Obviously many like the breadth of the game but many also call it out for its thinness.


Random Thoughts

There was another discussion with a proposal to adjust the "quest rewards" to include skill benefits.  Like +1 Parkour for example, or if you already have it some arbitrary buff or maybe you could pick a recipe.  Something not overpowering but could assist in character development.  I would almost create a new skill currency (abilities) and put some QOL abilities as "rewards".  Like "Grandfathers Farm"  you remember your grandfathers farm and can harvest 2 corn (without "living off the land") or "Coffee @%$#" you're sick getting the office coffee order but you can manage to pour hot water over some grounds and can make coffee (without Master Chef perk) or "High School Sports"  Not as good as Al Bundy but you can do the Fossberry flop (+1 extra meter to no fall damage)

I would like to see true bartering introduced with the traders rather than quest/reward loops (and keep some store items (maybe for secret stash).  Want this crucible?  Do me 4X Tier 4 clears.  Want this bike chassis?  I need 4X Blunderbusses and a pistol.  Want this recipe? I need 40 rounds of 9mm.  All balanced of course and using TFP bathroom humour.

Not of that these really addressees the end game but it may add some depth to the journey,

I like that idea with the barter quest rewards (assuming you meant the trader nerfed in the store and secret stash as compensation)

 

[Roland]

A lot of veteran players find starting over tedious at best.  The "tutorial" definitely should be on a switch or a way to autocomplete  (give me my four skill points and point me to the trader)

True veteran players should just cancel the tutorial quest and forego the 4 points starting from zero and finding the trader compound only if they happen upon it. I always begin this way now and never do the tutorial quest any longer. Simply hit the cancel button and it disappears from your quest list. It has made the beginning of the game much more enjoyable for me. 

 

[Laz Man]

For me, at a certain point it's all about building things.  I love renovating buildings and either renovating them or rebuilding them entirely.

One of the reasons that I am 100% in support of this Alpha 20 release. 

MORE building shtuff. It's so much fun.

This is one of buildings that I am renovating right now. I've gone a lot further in it but i cant seem to find the latest pics.

The inside is a total reno job. I am up to floor # 3 now.

In the garage portion of the building (which you cant see) I have built a mine that goes all the way to the earth base. I think I am mining all of my stuff there now.

A TON of materials have gone into this so far

View attachment 21117

View attachment 21118

View attachment 21119

View attachment 21120

View attachment 21121

Nice job.  Is that the tall remnant building that is destroyed diagonally?  If you haven't checked out the level design dev stream (#3?), I show cased the face lift I did on it using the new a20 shapes.

 

[Slaasher]

Nice job.  Is that the tall remnant building that is destroyed diagonally?  If you haven't checked out the level design dev stream (#3?), I show cased the face lift I did on it using the new a20 shapes.

Yep, that's the one. I will definitely look at that 

 

[kumarrkirann920]

The problem with this game is, that you progress way too fast. There is pretty much nothing that can stop you on day 30. You barely get to the point where hordes last all night before you are pretty much OP.

 

[Whorhay]

The problem with this game is, that you progress way too fast. There is pretty much nothing that can stop you on day 30. You barely get to the point where hordes last all night before you are pretty much OP.

I'm on day 68 and haven't had a horde last all night yet. I'm playing on default 60 minute days so maybe my nights are longer than yours. I am playing with max alive 16 though so the moments when there isn't a target to splatter aren't real common on horde night. I think the problem though isn't that players can progress too fast, I think it's that the game pushes players to advance as fast as possible. From day one you can run into ferals in PoI's that maybe we should know better than to be venturing into, and just sprinkled around after dark. Knowing that the horde is coming in a few hours and with pressures to get food and build a base, the game strongly pushes players to level up and fast. Personally I like that kind of pressure and stress in the game, as it is what makes replaying the game over and over fun.

 

[misrule]

Hey, this is the question (what to do towards the end) that we all face, my approach is to come up with my own goals, to keep interest going, I play on Loki server #1, over day 4000, I've been at max lvl for a long time, so the solution is to forget the game goals and be creative with my own, I like tactical zombie combat, already done a bunch of bases & established  a player store, latest goal is 250,000 zombie "deaths" b4 Alpha20, obviously the fate of the world hangs on this, lol

 

[Roland]

The problem with this game is, that you progress way too fast. There is pretty much nothing that can stop you on day 30. You barely get to the point where hordes last all night before you are pretty much OP.

So slow down. If you progress too fast you are probably doing things to progress overly fast. You can also change the xp gains to 50% and be slowed that way.

Next time you restart, cancel the tutorial quest and forego the free 4 points. 

Only take one quest per day (once you find a trader without being led to a trader).

Change the death penalty to "Delete all on death". That can set you back and slow you down by quite a bit. Nothing like losing all your prime weapons, armor, and supplies and having to return to primitive stuff until you can acquire new things again.

the game strongly pushes players to level up and fast.

I don't feel that pressure at all-- but probably because I understand that the faster I level up the higher the gamestage will be and tougher the hordes and enemies. If you understand how the game progression works then you are actually pushed to progress at a moderate to slow rate so that your gear levels all stay ahead of the gamestage curve of the game. If you level up fast then the gamestage curve can outpace your gear and make the game tougher.

Many games do promote grinding to quickly level up so that you can be higher level than the enemies around you but in this game your level is a factor of the gamestage difficulty so leveling up quickly can backfire on you if you don't expect it.

 

[Whorhay]

I don't race for levels or do stuff to deliberately pile up levels. Tons of stuff is level gated though, and so if you want to be able to do stuff other than deliberately hobble yourself then you'll take every opportunity to earn exp. Gamestage advances with days played as well as player level, so by not leveling you're possibly just hurting your chances by getting behind the curve.

 

[Laz Man]

I don't race for levels or do stuff to deliberately pile up levels. Tons of stuff is level gated though, and so if you want to be able to do stuff other than deliberately hobble yourself then you'll take every opportunity to earn exp. Gamestage advances with days played as well as player level, so by not leveling you're possibly just hurting your chances by getting behind the curve.

That is incorrect, I believe its based on a factor of days survived since your last death and your level.  Gamestage based on the day number was changed at least a couple of alphas ago.  This way, a level 1 character joining a server on day 1000 has appropriately scaled difficulty if not in party with others.

https://7daystodie.fandom.com/wiki/Gamestage#Calculation_-_Party

 

[meganoth]

I don't race for levels or do stuff to deliberately pile up levels. Tons of stuff is level gated though, and so if you want to be able to do stuff other than deliberately hobble yourself then you'll take every opportunity to earn exp. Gamestage advances with days played as well as player level, so by not leveling you're possibly just hurting your chances by getting behind the curve.

As LazMan said. Since "days survived" is capped at player level for gamestage calculation it is actually easier if you try to avoid getting xp and just collect loot (better equipment, books, mods and materials make you better as well while the zombies stay at the low gamestage). But even looting generates xp so you can't avoid leveling up, just slow it down.

 

[BFT2020]

Directly from the game file

DaysSurvived:
    This is a running total, kept for every individual player.

    Every 24 hours GAME time 1 (day) is added.
    On every death "daysAliveChangeWhenKilled" is subtracted from the total.

    After this the daysAlive is capped.
    It is low-capped at 0, high-capped at "your player level".
    At player level 41 you can have a daysSurvived value anywhere from 0 to 41.

gameStage = ( playerLevel + daysSurvived ) * difficultyBonus

So if a player was level 10 and survived 4 days playing when the game stage points are calculated the game stage points would be
gameStage = (Player Level 10 + Days Survived 4 ) X difficultyBonus 1.2

The total would be 16.8 or 16 game stage points.