PC Does Heavy/Light armor skill work?

[Catt]

Hey all,

I was curious as to if anyone has actually tested to see if the "increased effectiveness" of the armor skills actually works, and increases your armor rating as it states.

The reason I ask is, as some people may have noticed, your armor rating when viewed by the character info page under the trophy tab does NOT increase when you purchase/have ranks in your respective armor skill. (This needs fixed either way, but was wondering if, since it's not visible, does it even actually work?)

For example. If you had full steel armor, you'd have 45 armor provided by them. If you had a steel plating mod in each one, that's 15 more armor for a total of 60. So, in theory, if your heavy armor skill is maxed, your armor rating should be 90, but it does NOT visually show this number.

Does anyone know if you'd actually have 90 armor?

-and side question, does 1 armor equate to 1% damage rediction or is there a more complex formula for it?

Thanks for infoz!

 

[Catt]

Bump, surely someone has an answer

 

[Guest]

I think it works now, but haven't really tried to confirm it by comparing hits with and without. It should definitely show in the UI somewhere, hope that gets fixed.

 

[theFlu]

Since I had 15 minutes to kill, I decided to test it. Took half an hour, but w/e

17.4 (b4), tested on 7.7.2019

Summary: Armor perks work, UI doesn't reflect actual armor rate; effect of the perk doesn't show.

Side note, it is implemented as a straight up "percentage of damage reduced", which makes the last points exponentially better.

EDIT: Since I had it set up, I confirmed that military armor seems to behave the same, no UI armor update from skill, but effect works as expected.

Test data used, obtained in a new game in navezgane, using god mode, spawned items and spawned zombies:

Predictions:

armor, mods, skills, should add up to a value of:

full steel: 45

with full steel mods: 60

with full perks, no mods: 45 * 1.5 = 67.5

mods & perks: 90

Results:

No armor: UI armor 0

feral arlene: 20 / hit

radiated biker: 40 / hit

full steel: UI armor 45

feral arlene: 11 / hit

radiated biker: 22 / hit

full steel + full mods: UI armor 60

feral arlene: 8 / hit

radiated biker: 16 / hit

full steel + full perks: UI armor 45

feral arlene: 6 / hit

radiated biker: 13 / hit

13/40 = 0.325 => 67.5 armor

6/20 = 0.3 => 70 armor, assuming rounding errors

full steel + full perks + full mods: UI armor 60

feral arlene: 2 / hit

radiated biker: 4 / hit

2/20 = 10%, 4/40 = 10%,

Rounding errors occur, but looks like 90% armor to me.

Conclusion;

Heavy armor perk works, only the UI is incorrect.

 

[seagas]

Thank you for taking the time to test this!

 

[Catt]

Since I had 15 minutes to kill, I decided to test it. Took half an hour, but w/e
17.4 (b4), tested on 7.7.2019

Summary: Armor perks work, UI doesn't reflect actual armor rate; effect of the perk doesn't show.

Side note, it is implemented as a straight up "percentage of damage reduced", which makes the last points exponentially better.

EDIT: Since I had it set up, I confirmed that military armor seems to behave the same, no UI armor update from skill, but effect works as expected.

Test data used, obtained in a new game in navezgane, using god mode, spawned items and spawned zombies:

Predictions:

armor, mods, skills, should add up to a value of:

full steel: 45

with full steel mods: 60

with full perks, no mods: 45 * 1.5 = 67.5

mods & perks: 90

Results:

No armor: UI armor 0

feral arlene: 20 / hit

radiated biker: 40 / hit

full steel: UI armor 45

feral arlene: 11 / hit

radiated biker: 22 / hit

full steel + full mods: UI armor 60

feral arlene: 8 / hit

radiated biker: 16 / hit

full steel + full perks: UI armor 45

feral arlene: 6 / hit

radiated biker: 13 / hit

13/40 = 0.325 => 67.5 armor

6/20 = 0.3 => 70 armor, assuming rounding errors

full steel + full perks + full mods: UI armor 60

feral arlene: 2 / hit

radiated biker: 4 / hit

2/20 = 10%, 4/40 = 10%,

Rounding errors occur, but looks like 90% armor to me.

Conclusion;

Heavy armor perk works, only the UI is incorrect.

You sir are seriously dope, thank you for taking the time to test. I'm too dumb to try and figure it all out. Figured someone might have already tested already amd knew but this is great. Seriously thanks

 

[Wyrda78]

Percentage reduction is a bad way to do it because of exponential increases in survivability as armour rating increases. Instead, armour rating should be redesigned so that it gives good protection for attacks with a damage value of at or under the armour rating value, but little protection for damage values higher than your armour rating. This makes it more intuitive and balanced.

 

[theFlu]

Yer welcome. I have tested it earlier, but I didn't remember which patch it was, figured it was worth a redo and some public notes. (It's not difficult, F1:dm, F1:cm, F6 and 'u', just takes getting started .. numpad '*' will stop/start the AI when needed )

Percentage reduction is not a great solution for balancing for sure, at that 90%, getting 1% more will give you "10% more", effectively. Of course with rounding the damage numbers, it's probably even worse, that arlene might end up doing 1/hit at that point depending on the rounding, reducing damage taken by 50%... a feral taking 200 hits to take you down... sounds almost dangerous... not that the 100 is much better

 

[Catt]

Oh, forgot to ask how yall think pain tolerance skill factors into all of this. I figure if you take 100 damage, and have 50 armor, it'll be reduced to 50, and if you then have rank 4 of pain tolerance (20% reduction) it'll knock it off after the fact and drop the 50 to 40.

Just a theory unless someone knows the truth

 

[theFlu]

Darnit, you went and reminded me..

This was a little more entertaining.

Pain tolerance seems to have been implemented as an extra little heal after taking damage. You'll die even if the last hit would logically be "reduced enough" by PT. Still works fine for general combat of course.

So essentially, you'll get hit and then you get healed for whatever percentage your PT is, rounded down. Take 20 damage, get healed for 5% = 1 point. Take 19 damage, 5% is below 1 => get 0. So, while wearing any armor, the first rank is pretty useless alone.

I didn't test the stun reduction part in any proper way, but it seemed to be 100% effective already at 3/5 with steel or military armor on, so the stun protection stacks, somehow.

Data set tucked inside a:

Spoiler

Version 17.4 (b4)

Test subject: Radiated biker

Based on earlier test, so already had full armor talents:

5/5 in heavy armor

5/5 in light armor

no armor, no pain tolerance:

40 / hit

1/5 PT (5% resistance): 40 / hit, two points restored after getting hit (in UI numbers), so 38 per hit

at 40/200 health, taking a 40 point hit, death occurs (so, not Only in UI) (only one test)

3/5 PT (15%): 40 / hit, 6 restored

5/5 PT (25%): 40 / hit, 10 restored

full military, no mods: UI armor 30, actual 45

22 / hit

1/5 PT: 22 / hit, 1 HP restoration after = 21 / hit

at 22/200 health, death (one test)

3/5 PT: 22 / hit, 3 restored

5/5 PT: 22 / hit, 5 restored

full military, full mods: UI armor 45, actual 62.5

13 / hit

1/5 PT: 13 / hit, no restoration

full steel, no mods: UI armor 45, actual 62.5

13 / hit

1/5 PT: 13 / hit, no restoration

3/5 PT: 13 / hit, 1 restored instantly, usually 1 more a second or two later (a healing tick from a rounding issue or something? Could NOT repeat extra tick without armor)

full steel, full mods: UI armor 60, actual 90

4 / hit

1/5 PT: 4 / hit, no restoration

3/5 PT: 4 / hit, no restoration (4 * 0.15 = 0.6, only the full points are returned? as in no rounding from 0.5)

5/5 PT: 4 / hit, 1 restored

Secondary testing, fall damage:

Didn't set up a proper test location, but dropping from god mode caused a normal looking fall damage, which also was restored by a percentage after impact. Was getting to 4 damage, 1 restored repeatedly. Trying for higher numbers mostly caused a broken leg, which causes loss of fortitude, which changes health numbers; not worth testing further - maybe with parkour 5/5 eventually.

Side notes:

Armor getting damaged reduces it's effectiveness. I didn't test if it is linear or something else, but it didn't start happening early in the testing. So I'm assuming there's a limit, at around 50% durability (like in earlier alphas with tools).

Completely damaged armor still slows you down. It seems to grant the effect of the armor mods at least, so probably other mods remain functional as well.

 

[Catt]

Interesting info on PT...Thank you!

And very great to know on armor durability...I remembered how in earlier alphas that was the case but assumed it didn't matter anymore. I'll have to make sure my armor is in great repair all the time.

Thanks for all your info sir!