PC Does GameSparks integration imply micro transactions?

Liesel Weppen said:
Yeah, nice attitude... So basically i could also use unity to "mod" my own game.

For me vanilla is still a full game, and it should be somehow complete as a full game. It's a game, not just a construction kit to make a game.

Imho some total conversion mods did enhance the game much more than vanilla did. Adding mechanics, even graphical overhauls.

To be honest, i'd rather pay for darkness falls as a new game then paying anything for A19. Yeah, i know, i don't have to pay for any of them again, but what some modders did to the game is much more advanced that what TFP is doing atm.

Of course there is progress and not everybody likes every change, but basically 7d2d would have been worth selling every new major alpha for 20 bucks every year. But A19 then would be a version where i finally would say: I could have skipped this one.
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You do realize darkness falls will continue to get better because the game continues to develop?  I get you like it more then Vanilla A19 but try to show alittle respect...

 
Laz Man said:
You do realize darkness falls will continue to get better because the game continues to develop?  I get you like it more then Vanilla A19 but try to show alittle respect...
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You got me wrong. And it is not disrespect but more like disappointment.

Darkness Falls added a lot more to the game then every update since... A16? Which inherent means, it was already possible with what the base game provided, but vanilla didn't. And Darkness Falls is just an example.

From what i got, even TFP stated, polishing comes last, what makes absolutely sense in case of softwaredevelopment. What did they do with A19... polish graphics, but almost nothing to advance the gameplay. And to be honest, seeing just HALF of the zombies graphically overhauled looks like something half done half not done... even if it is "just" alpha.

 
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Liesel Weppen said:
Yeah, nice attitude... So basically i could also use unity to "mod" my own game.

For me vanilla is still a full game, and it should be somehow complete as a full game. It's a game, not just a construction kit to make a game.

Imho some total conversion mods did enhance the game much more than vanilla did. Adding mechanics, even graphical overhauls.

To be honest, i'd rather pay for darkness falls as a new game then paying anything for A19. Yeah, i know, i don't have to pay for any of them again, but what some modders did to the game is much more advanced that what TFP is doing atm.

Of course there is progress and not everybody likes every change, but basically 7d2d would have been worth selling every new major alpha for 20 bucks every year. But A19 then would be a version where i finally would say: I could have skipped this one.
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How did you ever come to the conclusion that I was saying TFP would stop before making the complete game? I guess we need to know your definition of "complete". They can make the game complete and yet approachable and playable by a wide range of gamers. Your original statement was that the game might be casualized by the use of analytics-- not left incomplete. Don't go changing the goal posts in the middle of the conversation you started. If the game is complete with all goals implemented but somewhat too casual for you there is nothing wrong with downloading a mod that makes it more of a hardcore survival simulation type of experience. There is also nothing wrong with the attitude of TFP finishing their game and making it 100% complete but in a way that appeals to the wider market while at the same time giving us the means to change it into something that fits our niche set of preferences.

I just don't understand people who look at the moddability of the game and instead of feeling excitement and gratitude for the possibilities granted, they feel disappointment and anger.

 
Mahnogard said:
I have a question. In the forum on the Steam threads, one of the mods said that GS would disregard modded games. Does this include only those with actual mods installed in the mods folder, or does it also include those categorized as "modded" due to using non-vanilla game options (from the options screens, not manual XML edits)? I ask because I'm happy to have my data sent but I almost never use vanilla options when setting up a new game.
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I believe if you change certain settings it doesn't gather any data. I'm not sure which ones though.

 
SylenThunder said:
It is interesting though.  I recall a discussion a couple of years ago in one of the dev diaries where they were very against the idea of micro-transactions.

Personally I don't really see a good way to integrate it into the game, and still keep the same focus on what the game is supposed to be.
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If we ever did anything it would probably be outfits and skins. We're a ways off from that because UMA is a mess yet, we will tackle that soon though and get the characters decent looking like the new zombies. Only after that is complete would we be partly ready to even consider it. It wouldn't be anything game changing, just visuals to make your survivor look cooler.

Liesel Weppen said:
You got me wrong. And it is not disrespect but more like disappointment.

Darkness Falls added a lot more to the game then every update since... A16? Which inherent means, it was already possible with what the base game provided, but vanilla didn't. And Darkness Falls is just an example.

From what i got, even TFP stated, polishing comes last, what makes absolutely sense in case of softwaredevelopment. What did they do with A19... polish graphics, but almost nothing to advance the gameplay. And to be honest, seeing just HALF of the zombies graphically overhauled looks like something half done half not done... even if it is "just" alpha.
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What? New weapons, new primitive stage, 3 book sets. Way better combat. That is pretty substantial to the game play. Alpha 18 was a masterpiece, you go start changing a ton of stuff and you are just going to piss people off. The game is basically 95% done so I don't know what you expect at this point. We're just fixing bugs, polishing and beating the ugly out of it, some QOL and bandits/main quest and we're gold. Bear in mind that is probably 2 years of work.

 
Liesel Weppen said:
You got me wrong. And it is not disrespect but more like disappointment.

Darkness Falls added a lot more to the game then every update since... A16? Which inherent means, it was already possible with what the base game provided, but vanilla didn't. And Darkness Falls is just an example.
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This has been explained many times. Modders can jump ahead and do whatever they want because they are not held to the same standard that the developers are nor do they have to pay any attention to future plans or the scope of the game. Finally, modders are pure content adders while TFP has to focus on content, and performance, and Unity updates, and everything else so we get some new content but also new graphics and better lighting, and better performance, and other under the hood improvements.

madmole said:
...it would probably be outfits and skins...we will tackle that soon though and get .... ready to ...consider it.... game changing, 

New weapons.... book sets....better combat....substantial to the game play....a ton of stuff....95%...I....expect at this point. 
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Message received, big guy! Message received.

 
madmole said:
What? New weapons, new primitive stage, 3 book sets. Way better combat. That is pretty substantial to the game play.
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Yes, it is.

Alpha 18 was a masterpiece, you go start changing a ton of stuff and you are just going to piss people off. The game is basically 95% done so I don't know what you expect at this point. We're just fixing bugs, polishing and beating the ugly out of it, some QOL and bandits/main quest and we're gold. Bear in mind that is probably 2 years of work.
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I know that it is still a lot of work. So your plan is to add bandits as a major feature and some polishment, and then it's finished?

I heard of an event system, i put great hopes in. A system that makes the game way less predicitive and more surprising. That would be way more valuable than bandits, or even better it takes bandits into account. Something like that would be a killerfeature, imho.

 
madmole said:
If we ever did anything it would probably be outfits and skins. We're a ways off from that because UMA is a mess yet, we will tackle that soon though and get the characters decent looking like the new zombies. Only after that is complete would we be partly ready to even consider it. It wouldn't be anything game changing, just visuals to make your survivor look cooler.
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Good to hear. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fall under the classification of micro-transactions either. It's not like SE where you have to pay just to get paint textures. I can get behind paying a little extra for some custom outfits.

 
madmole said:
If we ever did anything it would probably be outfits and skins. We're a ways off from that because UMA is a mess yet, we will tackle that soon though and get the characters decent looking like the new zombies. Only after that is complete would we be partly ready to even consider it. It wouldn't be anything game changing, just visuals to make your survivor look cooler.
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Why don't you guys make a character creator that integrates a bunch of arrays with hair, faces, noses, mouths, bodies and clothing and generates npcs at random without ever having to think about UMA again?. Plus if you take away the clothing of that code, you get a brand new character creator interface. Everything will run better and less buggy.

With your current manpower, that's probably just 5-8 months of work to fully finish with 70% of hands on deck, but the benefits will save you guys tons of months and help you get to gold faster in the long term. Benefits:

1- You get full bandit models for any situation and with any clothing you like.

2- You get full npc models for any situation and with any clothing you like.

3-You get the character creator window with little to no work when the previous 2 are done.

4- You save time and work for the 3d modelling team because they don't have to make a full model for each npc every single time. Just for the main characters AND even then, you could even use only said custom character creator tool.

You can argue that yadayada gold etc. But taking the time and making the one fully fledged system will only save time. Development will take 2 more years anyway at best. You can make the most of it and then everything will get easier and way faster.

Idk. What do you think?

Edit: Knuckle rub moment?

 
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madmole said:
....

What? New weapons, new primitive stage, 3 book sets. Way better combat. That is pretty substantial to the game play. Alpha 18 was a masterpiece, you go start changing a ton of stuff and you are just going to piss people off. ....
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Pretty much describes my feelings when A17 dropped. A18 made it a little better, but A19 has me considering shelving it until some overhaul mods come out. Hopefully they will address issues I have with the game(stone age, crit system, hunger and stamina, candies, the list goes on). 

 
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You are an Even Update kind of guy Jeraal. Guaranteed Alpha 20 will be your ticket back on the hype train. Alpha 21 doesn't look to be pleasant though.... ;)

 
Man i WISH you would add skins. Id pay bucket loads cause im not a freeloader. Gotten thousands of hours out of this game, gotten a modding community behind me and met many friends. Serve up those walking dead skins MM and ill gladly support you guys.

 
JaxTeller718 said:
Man i WISH you would add skins. Id pay bucket loads cause im not a freeloader. Gotten thousands of hours out of this game, gotten a modding community behind me and met many friends. Serve up those walking dead skins MM and ill gladly support you guys.
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So here's my question since we have a modding guru here. How can TFP really add skins and such when their game is so moddable? They put out a map pack that costs $4.99 and someone uses Nitrogen to approximate those same maps....for free. They add some character skins and then a modder adds look-a-likes...for free. They add new gun skins and....too late....modders have had those for free for years now....

I just don't see a viable path for TFP adding such transactions while at the same time encouraging and allowing modding. I mean, I guess if people just want an excuse to support and give more money in exchange for a token game addition that's one thing, but we both know there will quickly be modded knock offs of pretty much anything TFP might add as a micro-transaction. Right?

 
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Liesel Weppen said:
You got me wrong. And it is not disrespect but more like disappointment.

Darkness Falls added a lot more to the game then every update since... A16? Which inherent means, it was already possible with what the base game provided, but vanilla didn't. And Darkness Falls is just an example.

From what i got, even TFP stated, polishing comes last, what makes absolutely sense in case of softwaredevelopment. What did they do with A19... polish graphics, but almost nothing to advance the gameplay. And to be honest, seeing just HALF of the zombies graphically overhauled looks like something half done half not done... even if it is "just" alpha.
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Here's a fun fact: All of these conversion mods that add thousands of new items? The base game isn't designed to handle all of those new assets and numbers of items. Vanilla would be like stuffing a box to the brim, while modded is stacking mountains of items on top of an already overflowing box. It might work for some people, but its unstable overall.

 
madmole said:
Wow, Idle hands are the devils workshop my dad always said. The things people dream up amazes me.

We simply want to know how many people are using clubs vs stun batons so we can make stun batons better if 9 out 10 players choose the club instead... or should add more shows to the in game television? OH wait 4 people out of 10 million use the television, so maybe we should just delete it instead, or find out why nobody is watching it.

Basically we want to balance the game, we have no plans for microtransactions at this time, nor do we collect any personal data.
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I think this is the first time I actually really am on your side. I have asked for this since A11, since there were so many things that I though were going the wrong direction and knew from ppl on steamforums and friendslist they didnt care about... but when I said anything its "just a small subset".

Now either of us can actually provide evidence (well not me... but you can disprove what I am saying). This is a great step for 7d2d. I just hope you don't start to wonder "what ABOUT microtransactions... maybe a few mods... maybe more pois..."

 
@Roland , to the dlc question. Not sure if 7dtd could pull it off, but the most inticing thing for me in the Space Engineers dlcs is the recent one where they basically added a several hours long 'mission'. SE doesn't really have 'npcs' they have some fairly basic attack ships/drones ai, nor is there an elaborate questing system. Just some basic trigger they leverage, and guidance is via notes or on displays.

Maybe 7dtd could do something similar where there's a partially hand created map (rest just there if players wanted to continue on into sandbox after completing) and in the "mission" area designers could control what tools/weapons were available, Signs to keep players in the right area, and give hints. Special model NPC to act as the handler. That kind of thing.

Merc seems like a decent option. I know I'd buy a T-shirt, if only they were offered in 100% Cotton.

 
Roland said:
So here's my question since we have a modding guru here. How can TFP really add skins and such when their game is so moddable? They put out a map pack that costs $4.99 and someone uses Nitrogen to approximate those same maps....for free. They add some character skins and then a modder adds look-a-likes...for free. They add new gun skins and....too late....modders have had those for free for years now....

I just don't see a viable path for TFP adding such transactions while at the same time encouraging and allowing modding. I mean, I guess if people just want an excuse to support and give more money in exchange for a token game addition that's one thing, but we both know there will quickly be modded knock offs of pretty much anything TFP might add as a micro-transaction. Right?
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I would pay a few dollars for a themed clothing pack, for example, not only to support the game but also because dev-created content receives support and is a lot less likely to break with a patch. I don't really use mods much in 7DTD (I actually like the game the way it is so much that I rarely feel the need to change it), but I've been using mods for years in other games and it can be a crap shoot. Yes, at the moment we have some really awesome modders in this community that update and support their stuff even through massive game changes, but later when it's Gold and there's Workshop support, the flood gates will open on mods and a large portion of the creators of those mods won't support them or update them at all.

Also, post-Gold there will be the other platforms to consider - and they can't do mods unless you set up a platform modding framework like Bethesda uses for their single player games.

 
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Roland said:
So here's my question since we have a modding guru here. How can TFP really add skins and such when their game is so moddable? They put out a map pack that costs $4.99 and someone uses Nitrogen to approximate those same maps....for free. They add some character skins and then a modder adds look-a-likes...for free. They add new gun skins and....too late....modders have had those for free for years now....

I just don't see a viable path for TFP adding such transactions while at the same time encouraging and allowing modding. I mean, I guess if people just want an excuse to support and give more money in exchange for a token game addition that's one thing, but we both know there will quickly be modded knock offs of pretty much anything TFP might add as a micro-transaction. Right?
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The technology would have to change. Right now you cant skin the players or add clothes. you can CHANGE exisiting ones but not add to them which .... kills a lot of potential.

If you guys can figure a way to open that up without exposing it you can have cosmetics. I can guarantee you I would rather pay for a pack than try to make my own or download someone elses but I 

1. Want to support in any way i can

2.  Know that every mod is more resources gone and if a modder who doesnt test or optimize just sloppily throws outfits out there it can actually hurt overall performance so I would rather go official for some things.

3. You guys have some serious artists on your team. There are a few in our community but most either work from pre bought assets or modify pre boughts in blender etc. YOUR DLC would be hand made by guys like Joel and would follow the same artistic design as we see in game now. So right there its a selling point. Id rather Joels interpretation of gear and police uniforms than a modder. 

 
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