PC Do zombies have i-frames now?

This game uses "accuracy" in some way. There are mods we can get that state things like "increases accuracy when aiming" or "increases accuracy when firing form the hip", for example. This makes me think there might be a "dice roll" somewhere where the game determines if you hit something or not. Thus having the target definitely within your cross-hairs when you fire doesn't guarantee a hit, it simply guarantees that you get to roll the dice to see if you hit. Just a theory. Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??

 
Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??
Click to expand...
Haven't seen a random chance in action.
Increased accuracy is about tightening the crosshair. And for that to make sense, I guess I'll need to explain the crosshair..? :)

The crosshair shows you the area where your shot will actually land. If it's wide, like running with a rifle, it'll land "somewhere", if it's narrow, it'll land, well somewhere, but in a smaller somewhere :) Always within the lines of the crosshair.

With a laser pointer mod, you can see the actual point where the shot will land. (Seems accurate based on my tests with a crossbow.) The point of aim travels around, in random moves within the crosshair area, spending something like 70-80% of the time very close to the center.

Adding accuracy will bring the crosshairs closer to the center, bringing the random travel closer to the center and thus making the shots more accurate.

 
This game uses "accuracy" in some way. There are mods we can get that state things like "increases accuracy when aiming" or "increases accuracy when firing form the hip", for example. This makes me think there might be a "dice roll" somewhere where the game determines if you hit something or not. Thus having the target definitely within your cross-hairs when you fire doesn't guarantee a hit, it simply guarantees that you get to roll the dice to see if you hit. Just a theory. Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??
Click to expand...
I think it just shrinks the aiming "reticle" is all. I see a noticeable difference if I swap out folding stock on a marksman rifle. Not huge, not enough to be worth it, but noticeable. If you fire a gun the strike can land anywhere inside that reticle in the center of your screen. Thats why I do not count "misses" that should have hit the zed when firing guns, I can usually see the bullet land somewhere just outside the zeds body area where the target area inside the reticle is and I realize the RNGeezus failed me and the round just didnt hit close enough to center. This mostly happens with the ak/marksman/hunter rifles obviously. I'm a surgeon with the shotguns and pistols by comparison, those simply do not miss.

HOWEVER, with melee the target reticle is very very small, which is actually kind of irritating. So you HAVE to line up a blow center mass or headshot (that head weaving around such as they do). Center mass it is, but you can see where you hit "should" go. And like others have said either when they are swinging or if they are starting to stand up, sometimes, your perfectly lined shot will seem to go right through them. Target area dead set in their chest, right in the 1/2 meter sweet spot or or wherever, skills and stat maxed out with rank 6 weapon all covered in mods and it just sails through the zombies incorporeal chest and your standing there looking at it like

what-to-expect-after-saying-i-love-you-to-all-12-zodiac-signs.jpg

Even the zeds behind him stop for a second and go "yea dog that shoulda been a hit". It really messes with the flow of the combat when it happens. You will be just knocking off heads like Babe Ruth and it happens you just gotta grunt, roll your eyes and grit your teeth while the moment passes. Try to get your head back in the game. Oh it's irritating.

 
I regularly see swings pass right through the zombie I have in my cross hairs, shooting not so much but my clubs and bats and every other weapon I have used since A18 started has every few fights gone right through center mass on a swing without any hit whatsoever. I don't even bother with headshots any more, just wasting stamina. This is a problem, it needs to be acknowledge by the devs and it needs to be fixed. Ignoring it and pretending it isn't happening is just causing frustration among a lot of players.
At this stage of the game with POI's full of nothing but glowies and ferals I honestly don't even try to melee any more, you can't trust it when it matters.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if I got running zombies coming at me I always aim for a torso hit and hope it knocks them down on the first hit, it usually does as long as its not a fat feral or a feral wight. Im on warriro with a t5 steel sledge and 4 in the sledge perk, can 1 shot female zombies with torso power attacks, and 2 hit male zombies with normal swings, probally when I get 5 in the sledge perk i'll be 1 shotting male zombies on body power attacks. Later game its better to aim for knockdowns first then go for headshots with a sledge, due to the wonky melee mechanics and running zombies just being a pain in the arse to headshot. I been saying this for a while they really need to tweak sleeper spawns, so poi's with nothing but ferals and rads shouldn't happen, higher gamestage means higher chance a sleeper can be one but it should never get to the point every single one is one of those, maybe 50% at max.

- - - Updated - - -

This game uses "accuracy" in some way. There are mods we can get that state things like "increases accuracy when aiming" or "increases accuracy when firing form the hip", for example. This makes me think there might be a "dice roll" somewhere where the game determines if you hit something or not. Thus having the target definitely within your cross-hairs when you fire doesn't guarantee a hit, it simply guarantees that you get to roll the dice to see if you hit. Just a theory. Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??
Click to expand...
Its not a dice roll, what it does is tightens the crosshair. Shotgun choke, foregrip, laser sight, you'll notice the crosshair get smaller as u apply each of these mods. Apply all 3 to a pump shotgun and you get some insanely accurate buckshot spray there with virtually no spread.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Haven't seen a random chance in action.
Increased accuracy is about tightening the crosshair. And for that to make sense, I guess I'll need to explain the crosshair..? :)

The crosshair shows you the area where your shot will actually land. If it's wide, like running with a rifle, it'll land "somewhere", if it's narrow, it'll land, well somewhere, but in a smaller somewhere :) Always within the lines of the crosshair.

With a laser pointer mod, you can see the actual point where the shot will land. (Seems accurate based on my tests with a crossbow.) The point of aim travels around, in random moves within the crosshair area, spending something like 70-80% of the time very close to the center.

Adding accuracy will bring the crosshairs closer to the center, bringing the random travel closer to the center and thus making the shots more accurate.
Click to expand...
The laser pointer is pretty accurate as to where a shot will land, i've messed with it with the ak and pistol, there is a debug command you can enter to see hit markers when you hit something that shows "where" it was hit, and for me the laser pointer generally lined up. Only exception is shotgun with buckshot, as it fires 8 pellets, the laser is only correct for 1 of the 8.

 
Do zombies have invunerability frames now in a18? I notice sometimes when they swing, even though I have a clear shot at their body (the arm is not blocking it), it sometimes doesn't even register as a hit, almost as if the zombies have been given iframes during certan parts of their attack animations.
Click to expand...
^ If this is accurate, this must be why I miss with slower weapons all the time.

I am garbage at Sledgehammer and Fire Ax attacks. They miss even though they clearly should have passed through their torso or head., yet almost never miss with clubs and knifes even though I am in closer range and ripe for hits.

 
^ If this is accurate, this must be why I miss with slower weapons all the time.
I am garbage at Sledgehammer and Fire Ax attacks. They miss even though they clearly should have passed through their torso or head., yet almost never miss with clubs and knifes even though I am in closer range and ripe for hits.
Click to expand...
It sure feels like it is, if you try to hit a zombie with melee during certan frames of its attack, the zombie completly ignores the hit, even if its a dead center torso hit. Doesn't do any damage or anything, I have it happen to me all the time I main sledge for my melee weapon as its the only one really viable past midgame. With club/baseball bat right behind it. Its not the sledges damage that makes it so viable thou it IS pretty nice, a T5 steel sledge can hit for 70-80 damage with mods, and this is before perks are factored into it, Its good because it has a really high knockdown chance, and a zombie on the ground is one that is no longer a threat. Same for clubs, fairly high knockdown chance on normal swings.

 
After playing more with the clubs, I still think it's mostly people not being aware their reticle moved off the zombie's hitbox for a split second when the game is checking for a hit. I'm not saying you guys' aim is bad or that it should work like this, I just think there are no actual "i-frames", missing hitboxes or even actual bugs. Just a weird ray-cast system together with jerky animations that make it hard to tell whether your reticle is sticking on target throughout the swing.

It's why the problem is pronounced with the slower weapons: with fists and spears, your attack is fast enough that there's little delay between mouse-press and the game doing an actual hit check, but with the sledge there's a significant wind up before the weapon and zombie collide. If your reticle moves off the hit box while this check is happening, even by just a pixel, the game will count it as a miss.

I can hit zombies that are lying prone or standing up in the head just fine, but I have to ignore the visual arc of my weapon and purely concentrate on making sure my reticle is on their head (and not on a hand or shoulder) at the right time in the swing.

It's a silly system with dirt-poor visual feedback and I hope they redo it from the ground up, but I don't think there's actually anything "broken".

 
After playing more with the clubs, I still think it's mostly people not being aware their reticle moved off the zombie's hitbox for a split second when the game is checking for a hit. I'm not saying you guys' aim is bad or that it should work like this, I just think there are no actual "i-frames", missing hitboxes or even actual bugs. Just a weird ray-cast system together with jerky animations that make it hard to tell whether your reticle is sticking on target throughout the swing.
It's why the problem is pronounced with the slower weapons: with fists and spears, your attack is fast enough that there's little delay between mouse-press and the game doing an actual hit check, but with the sledge there's a significant wind up before the weapon and zombie collide. If your reticle moves off the hit box while this check is happening, even by just a pixel, the game will count it as a miss.

I can hit zombies that are lying prone or standing up in the head just fine, but I have to ignore the visual arc of my weapon and purely concentrate on making sure my reticle is on their head (and not on a hand or shoulder) at the right time in the swing.

It's a silly system with dirt-poor visual feedback and I hope they redo it from the ground up, but I don't think there's actually anything "broken".
Click to expand...

Nope, 100% no.

I literally said the crosshair can be dead center on the torso the entire swing and it happen. It is not like I spasm so hard that my swing starts with my crosshair off the zombie somehow. Not even talking about headshots either.

Idk about clubs, It only happens with sledges for me that I know of (I dont use clubs)

But it seems to happen during or near the time of zombie animations (ragdoll, attacks, etc.) and not 100% of the time, but enough to make it seem ridiculous.

It only takes 1 time to whiff a raging zombie with what appears to be a perfect, clean hit to think "well thats dumb af"

Or to power attack a stunned zombie on the ground and see the terrain block behind it take damage but not the zombie.

And yes, I can hit a zombie in the head fine too. Been using sledges for 6000 hours in this game and it is 100% "broken" when these bugs happen during combat.

 
Too many times I sneaked up on a sleeping zed on the ground and have sledged the ground under him instead before they started falling down to the previous floor. But it isn't reproducible on demand.

EDIT: I agree with Maynard69.

 
It is definitely more noticeable with sledges than other weapons due to how slowly the weapon swings. You notice each whiff a lot more than say bats. When I right click with a bat and see the hit fail when it should have it I grit my teeth and acknowledge its effed up but can follow through with another strike a second later. With a sledgehammer there is a good 2-3 seconds of rage building up and gives you time to look at the 30 stamina you just threw out the window for an easy hit that went nowhere before you can swing again.

 
Has anyone been able to post a video of this happening? Saying it's apparent to everyone is nice but having something to document this will go a long way to getting the devs involved.
Click to expand...
Devs have already been shown a very clear video of this happening.

EDIT: I played about 9 straight hours of A18.1 b7 today and I have rarely missed. So maybe the issue has been fixed?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
this video brought to you by about 2 dozen wights sacrifice, never forget ô7

the zed was definitely within range, as shown in the vid, I didn't move and got the hit after . Pretty much confirm my suspicion from the last time I test these stuff. either

A: the zed shoulders hitbox are wonky (unlikely from this vid, swing would have continue down and at least hit torso)

B: zed straight up missing hitbox collider in some frame

C: weapon hit detection are wonky

was gonna test every weapons, but doing like 5-6 test each weapon and have to check the video very closely in between sound like too much work, luckily I got one so soon.

If I have time, I'll test throwing spears since that the second most apparent hitbox bug. Sledge show nothing so far. I think people think their hit "miss" due to glancing blow somehow instead of a clean hit as hit should have been, it barely does any damage. This is why I advocate for remove glancing blow and just make it straight up hit like any other game with melee mechanic.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now that is a straight up bug, good job capturing one live :)

My money would be on B, that looks like the zombie swing animation related wonkyness.

 
Kinda settles it. Glad to see we are not all crazy. Least not about this.
Click to expand...
So yep, they basically have i-frames for certan parts of the animations for whatever reason. Missing collider also can count as i-frames imo at least in this instance, as the video shows there is no reason that did not count as a hit and the hit markers being on also helps to show it kinda i-framed what should have been a clean torso or maybe arm hit since there was no marker after the swing. I knew I wasn't crazy when I was noticing this. I mostly use melee in 7dtd, have since alpha 9 or 10 whenever I first got the game, so something this wonky is deff going to be something i'd notice with how long i've usually been mostly melee.

You notice this the most with the sledgehammer, I'd say one in every 3-4 zombies will magically avoid what should have been a sure hit, thats seems to be about how often it happens to me. Also yes, I know how far away I can hit things with the sledge, so its not me being out of range thats for sure, in fact most of these misses are when the zombie is .75 to 1 block away from of the sledgehammers 2.6 block max entity damage range.

Due to how wonky the hitboxes are in a18 I mostly aim for body shots later on with sledgehammers, as at least I have a good chance of it not glitching and hitting and knocking the zombie down. Compared to a headshot that more often than not doesn't register or it janks out of the way a split second before the raycast is fired to determine a hit. I think the main problem is melee weapons are using raycasts like its a gun.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top