PC Do you like the A19 loot system?

[JCrook1028]

I think that is supposed to be the rear differential and axle of a rwd vehicle.

Ya, I don't remember seeing any power poles out there last time I hazarded the area. Haven't seen any on the ground either.

read the item name in the xml... pole top....

 

[hiemfire]

read the item name in the xml... pole top....

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not disputing what it is, I'm saying they also used the pole top asset to represent the rear differential and axle of a RWD vehicle since you can also find them  in home garages and car shops.

 

[Solomon]

When the idea was discussed in the dev diary, Joel indicated that they were only thinking about using this in the higher tier POIs, not all POIs.   Cause, yeah, that would get old fast.

Even in higher tier poi's like the SM factory it gets old fast, especially if its on some random zombie because that means you at no point can decide to go around a certain part because one of the 60 zombies in the area has the key and if its in a container that means we essentially get 2 loot rooms one to raid fastest ingoring everything and 1 to nerdpole into.

I much rather see adding more variations of the same building because that way every building keeps the sandbox aspect while they are no longer predictable that easily.

 

[IrishManJMo]

As someone who has done some modding on my server and have tweaked some loot mechanics in the xml files I will say that a19 is a step in the right direction. I voted NO currently but I have seen for myself that this loot system has a lot of potential but it takes a ton of time and effort to get it there.

 

[Daemonjax]

I like it.

I'm a new player that didn't experience the old system, but I can use my imagination.  This way, loot has a progression.  It's more gamist and less of a simulation, and so some players won't like that.

I would change it so that safes always have something worth putting behind the safe, though -- something like use a minimum total value of the loot based on current game stage and size of the safe.  The values of the loot already exist (trade prices) so this would be easy to implement.  For all I know, maybe it already is, but then it just needs to be tweaked.

 

[Solomon]

I like it.

I'm a new player that didn't experience the old system, but I can use my imagination.  This way, loot has a progression.  It's more gamist and less of a simulation, and so some players won't like that.

I would change it so that safes always have something worth putting behind the safe, though -- something like use a minimum total value of the loot based on current game stage and size of the safe.  The values of the loot already exist (trade prices) so this would be easy to implement.  For all I know, maybe it already is, but then it just needs to be tweaked.

The old system was not perfect but it made two things right:

* A gun safe or a type specific crate always had what you expect in them. Guns in a gunsafe and tools in a sealed crate. The current version makes sure that every gunsafe you open will only have primitive bows and blunderbusses, no variation at all.

* It was unpredicatable meaning that every container was "new" to a player, you never knew exactly what will be in a kitchen counter because the moment you thought it will be cans and water again you found an anvil or an AK.

 

[Weazelsun]

Even thats something i wouldnt want to see because that would need that in every poi i would always need to go around these long as hell routes just to reach something what is literally in arm reach.

For example theres that shop poi where the loot room is literally behind some iron bars, you could take the intented route what is unnecessearly long going up on the roof and all that jazz or like a true survivor of the apocalypse just whittle down the iron bars and get in.

Heck, the pawnshop poi, the loot room is basically right at the starting point. Just break the door next to the dumpster. lol

 

[Weazelsun]

I do hope that the loot becomes less dependent on gamestage sooner rather than later.

 

[Solomon]

Heck, the pawnshop poi, the loot room is basically right at the starting point. Just break the door next to the dumpster. lol

Seriously, places like this shouldnt have loot rooms. It makes sense for giant factories, laboratories and skyscrapers but not for those small as hell little rooms.

 

[JCrook1028]

A gun safe or a type specific crate always had what you expect in them. Guns in a gunsafe and tools in a sealed crate. The current version makes sure that every gunsafe you open will only have primitive bows and blunderbusses, no variation at all.

* It was unpredicatable meaning that every container was "new" to a player, you never knew exactly what will be in a kitchen counter because the moment you thought it will be cans and water again you found an anvil or an AK.

1. People were waiting to loot safes because the loot was low quality anyway pre A19.

2. Totally untrue. Pre 19 containers also had their own loot lists by types as they do know.

 

[BFT2020]

* It was unpredicatable meaning that every container was "new" to a player, you never knew exactly what will be in a kitchen counter because the moment you thought it will be cans and water again you found an anvil or an AK.

I don't recall ever finding an anvil in a kitchen counter.  I found a lot of them though in Working Stiff boxes.

 

[Solomon]

1. People were waiting to loot safes because the loot was low quality anyway pre A19.

2. Totally untrue. Pre 19 containers also had their own loot lists by types as they do know.

1. I never once seen here any complain about how the loot in safes and such is bad so they have to wait for it, this type of complain started to appear en masse after the A19 experimental came out but if im wrong please provide source of your claim.
   
2. Yeah thats true to some degree, if you looted a WS container you had your random chance of getting somekind of tool, repair kits and nails if i remember right. Now in A19 this is no longer the case because for an absurdly long amount of time the same loot will be in that container till your GS rises up enough.
   

 

[meganoth]

1. I never once seen here any complain about how the loot in safes and such is bad so they have to wait for it, this type of complain started to appear en masse after the A19 experimental came out but if im wrong please provide source of your claim
   

Safes were commonly kept for later and their locations noted. But a mayor reason for this was that opening one with a stone axe was just taking too long. Lootstage concerns were much less important.

 

[TheRani]

I think the sealed crates should at least contain Parts, so people with points in the appropriate perks can at least start collecting materials to make their own.

 

[alanea]

1. I never once seen here any complain about how the loot in safes and such is bad so they have to wait for it, this type of complain started to appear en masse after the A19 experimental came out but if im wrong please provide source of your claim.
   
2. Yeah thats true to some degree, if you looted a WS container you had your random chance of getting somekind of tool, repair kits and nails if i remember right. Now in A19 this is no longer the case because for an absurdly long amount of time the same loot will be in that container till your GS rises up enough.
   

1) because pre-A19  safes usuallyd ropped some tier 1 gun kicking  you ot  of stone age on day 1

2) a19 WS box drops nails repair kits and tools

absurdly long ?  7 days +-  but  to be fair  you can craft low quality iron tools on day  1-2

i don't recall ever finding an anvil in a kitchen counter.  I found a lot of them though in Working Stiff boxes.

and you are  right .. its just another madeup   story from him again ...WS boxes barely changed  .. we just get stone age tools instead day  1 nailguns/steel .... and 25 repair kits instead 2-3(for some reason)

I think the sealed crates should at least contain Parts, so people with points in the appropriate perks can at least start collecting materials to make their own.

sure broken guns/tools  in form of part would  be best option  on other side stone tools should stay easily accesible in loot q5 stone tool is still better than your q3

I do hope that the loot becomes less dependent on gamestage sooner rather than later.

TFP made clear it wont .... they just add modifier .. either percentage or fixed  to  biomes .. and maybeeeee some pois

Heck, the pawnshop poi, the loot room is basically right at the starting point. Just break the door next to the dumpster. lol

most POI  is abusable like this its just faulty design  they need to fix somehow not sure why they decided to put all loot on one place where its easily accesibleby entering poi by exit/nerdpoling

 

[RipClaw]

most POI  is abusable like this its just faulty design  they need to fix somehow not sure why they decided to put all loot on one place where its easily accesibleby entering poi by exit/nerdpoling

The reason for this is that you don't want to let the player run back through the whole POI when he has finished the dungeon. In most games you have a quick way back out of a dungeon like a door that can only be opened from the inside. That the whole world is destroyable leads to the problem that the exit can also be the entrance.

 

[Solomon]

Safes were commonly kept for later and their locations noted. But a mayor reason for this was that opening one with a stone axe was just taking too long. Lootstage concerns were much less important.

Yeah that i do remember, thought we played in pairs so most of the time we just hammered stuff till it opened.

2) a19 WS box drops nails repair kits and tools

absurdly long ?  7 days +-  but  to be fair  you can craft low quality iron tools on day  1-2

I mean, i could already do that? We were usually out of stone age on day 3 in A18. I took advanced engineering and started making tools while the others were gone to hunt down resources.

Compared to this nothing has changed except that now i NEED to take advanced engineering to go forward unlike in A18 where it was convenience option.

Steel was a bottleneck in both version because the damned crucible is nowhere to found.

 

[alanea]

The reason for this is that you don't want to let the player run back through the whole POI when he has finished the dungeon. In most games you have a quick way back out of a dungeon like a door that can only be opened from the inside. That the whole world is destroyable leads to the problem that the exit can also be the entrance.

well yeah but there could be  7k metal doors  ... or visually less fitting 21k instead wooden ones with key in chest especially in high tier poi like waterworks where you have concrete walls and cant easily bypass those doors on day 1 .. they have some plans on keys  etc  so lets wait and hope .. its significant flaw of game  ....but we will need nerves of steel for future forum

A19"omg loot sucks we are stuck in stone age you destroyed game"

A20 "omg i cant skip poi and go straight for loot you destroyed game"

A21 "omg those bandits shot on me instead limping to me get slaughtered by club you destroyed game"

A22 "village and pillage"?

but loot often have no barrier at all on roof ... or its in wooden room  ideal case would be loot distributed across dungeon rather than single room its weird and abusable design

Yeah that i do remember, thought we played in pairs so most of the time we just hammered stuff till it opened.

I mean, i could already do that? We were usually out of stone age on day 3 in A18. I took advanced engineering and started making tools while the others were gone to hunt down resources.

Compared to this nothing has changed except that now i NEED to take advanced engineering to go forward unlike in A18 where it was convenience option.

Steel was a bottleneck in both version because the damned crucible is nowhere to found.

day 3 is quite late in A18 i never used stone shovel until A19 and had atleast one steel tool and gun on day  1

basically loot few cars  or raid working stiff tool  shop with few walkersinside to skip both stone and iron age ... while crafting stuff to finish tutorial quests

while current system is far from finished ... atleast we have some progression unlike previous alphas people are now disapointed by stone shovel ...  in A8 they used to be disapointed when WS crate dropped trash q4  iron axe in first days instead steel one

A17 crucible was locked behind lvl  80 A18 was pure rng A19 start appearing with iron tools i think ?   but recipe is  same in all three versions   just get  damn better barter 

- its one of best perks overall multiplying all your loot/quest rewards by increasing its price ..

- traders sell almost everything need 30 ductapes ? bunch of steel ? advanced turrets or guns ? rare mods .. or books you missing ?  day 1  concrete ? ammo ? food ?  candies ? dukes are all you need

- 5/5   is only way to get solar bank

- rank 3-4 makes crucible very common in secret stash for +- 6k dukes

in multiplayer its even better to have one person designed for selling/crafting stuff  with int tree

while the other one focus str for mining or perception for looting

A19 made recipes very common making int less usefull as you can ignore all perks and get recipes from random bookstore anyway

 

[JCrook1028]

day 3 is quite late in A18 i never used stone shovel until A19 and had atleast one steel tool and gun on day  1

and that is exactly what TFP fixed with A19.

 

[Stranded_Napkin]

But when it comes to items that are essentially needed for further progression, like a crucible, pure RNG is ... stupid.

We all remember the calipers problem. The only reason I disagree as to it being stupid is the focus on the RNG rather than the low number of actual sources. RNG isn't a problem if you can get something from a bunch of sources, but when it's only available from one or two it becomes a problem. Calipers were only available from lumberjacks and Working Stiff boxes, not to mention the incredibly low probability they'd drop in the first place. You have to be able to hit up those sources enough to make it possible to efficiently find them in a given time. Treasure maps don't have high probabilities but they drop often enough due to being able to find them literally anywhere due to them being in the trash.