PC Do not like the new crafting system skill breakout.

[Nox]

So the 16.0 (?) crafting system was to break out the ability to craft leveled items to the usage skill - so our hammer wielding 9 year old with the heavy armor is also now the only person who can craft tools unless someone else wants to dupe his stat investment.

The bow using scout crafts bows, and the base building engineer has to invest in a second skill tree because turrets / stun batons are not really effective/sensible due to ammo costs for us.

It worked for us when one person was the engineer/crafter. It doesn't really work to have the other players who aren't investing in crafting also have to learn/worry about/fiddle with levelled crafting issues.

It's also really made the engineering/building/crafting profile character much less meaningful, contributory and effective. The differences between a person with INT/dedicated crafter and anyone else is mainly quantitative in saving some margin on resources.

Anecdotally, I feel kind of dumb spending points in grease monkey to unlock a recipe that our group has already found the schematics for both 4x4 and gyrocopter before I've even gotten half way into GM. Cost reduction doesn't really matter for something you'll make once/twice even 4-5 times compared to the opportunity cost of character investment.

I would prefer and it would be more playable if blacksmithing, gunsmithing, and general crafting be their own trees. Or alternatively, if gunsmithing/weaponsmithing could be trees in INT unlocked by INT that would be an alternate path to crafting high level weapons.

Also we really need steel and are going to find a crucible schematic long before anyone has 10 int plus the 5 points to unlock down to expert to unlock crucible. This being buried so deep makes it seem unlikely it will ever be useful as an unlock.

Likewise, some of the stat to weapon links definitely do not work for our players - such as the scout who uses bow having to also invest in perception in order to get loot bonus. We don't want to give more points away but I don't know how else to get around this.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[Boidster]

Yeah, it's kind of a muddle. What's strange to me...no that's not right...

Among the many things that are strange to me is that other games have solved this levels/points/perks problem more gracefully. Many things about 7D2D are unique, but this part doesn't really have to be. I think all the arguments a year or two ago about "level gates" - a period which I refer to as Level Gate-Gate - caused TFP to take the progression system in a sort of weird direction.

Also, maybe, part of the problem lies with trying to give every type of player build access to every item. I'm not sure that's necessary for a good game. If you play a low-INT build, maybe the only way into a 4x4 or an M-60 is to buy one. Finding a schematic maybe ought not to confer the intelligence required to actually build and assemble the parts. Toss a coin to your Crafter.

I play as a high INT crafter, tho, and haven't experienced the game as, say, a STR+FORT brute. Might see things differently if that's how I played.

 

[FA_Q2]

Been advocating separating the building and combat styles for awhile now.

TFP does not seem to agree though

 

[Ghostlight]

Which is sad because the current design severely limits players' build choices.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

Yeah, it's kind of a muddle. What's strange to me...no that's not right...
Among the many things that are strange to me is that other games have solved this levels/points/perks problem more gracefully. Many things about 7D2D are unique, but this part doesn't really have to be. I think all the arguments a year or two ago about "level gates" - a period which I refer to as Level Gate-Gate - caused TFP to take the progression system in a sort of weird direction.

Also, maybe, part of the problem lies with trying to give every type of player build access to every item. I'm not sure that's necessary for a good game. If you play a low-INT build, maybe the only way into a 4x4 or an M-60 is to buy one. Finding a schematic maybe ought not to confer the intelligence required to actually build and assemble the parts. Toss a coin to your Crafter.

I play as a high INT crafter, tho, and haven't experienced the game as, say, a STR+FORT brute. Might see things differently if that's how I played.

I would have to agree. It is weird the direction the fun pimps have taken the skill system, almost as if they want to try extremely hard to be unique. In this area it is not needed at all, just adopt the system most other games use. Come A19 that will make what 3 or 4 big changes to how the skill system works...ummmm if you cannot get it right the second time something is wrong. I have faith though, that the finished product will be great.