PC Dew collector nerf in New update?

warmer said:
if you have enough dew collectors you essentially have unlimited money because you can sell fresh water. Unless I am mistaken. Thats a good 1000 dukes a day for 5 water collectors. the same reason they nerfed corn. Once you have enough to create more wealth resources per day that it cost to create another, the economy completely breaks.
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You can also easily farm up crazy amounts of stone and sell each stock for 1.2k, brass is collected very easily and also sells for alot with minimal effort. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of mods, tools, weapons and armor we find in a PoI that then sells for a bunch. 

The economy in this game has always been broken. Here are more easy to collect and sell things like plastic, same with mechanical parts, hell even spam running low tier infestations can net you alot of dukes from selling the ammo.

The time it takes you to collect all that water you could have easily made 5 or 6x thats amount from collecting and selling resources or doing some low tier infestations.

 
Lasher said:
As in they'd know what a proper dev process looks like - yes.
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You're confusing "typical" with "proper". Just because that's how things typically work in AAA gaming studios (or even many indie studios) does not mean that what TFP have chosen to do isn't proper. It's a perfectly viable way of doing things and thousands of gamers seem to be perfectly fine with it.

 
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Syphon583 said:
You're confusing "typical" with "proper". Just because that's how things typically work in AAA gaming studios (or even many indie studios) does not mean that what TFP have chosen to do isn't proper. It's a perfectly viable way of doing things and thousands of gamers seem to be perfectly fine with it.
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I think we'll just agree to disagree on that one as I really don't want to keep arguing the point.

If you think that for a game of this scope it's ok to still be in EA 10 years on then fair enough.

I've made my point often enough and if you're ok with it then that's fine.

 
hiemfire said:
If the game day is still 24hrs long then 1 game hour at default time settings is 2 minutes and 30 seconds.
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Oops, correct. And that frequency is more in line with what I remember from using an auger in some previous alpha and it could be too much

 
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Lasher said:
Firstly - go and ask ANY serious game or software dev if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years.
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I am a 'serious software dev' (a Software Solutions Architect) and I disagree with your statement.

I would appreciate if you stopped saying you represent my opinion in your posts.

 
Slingblade2040 said:
You can also easily farm up crazy amounts of stone and sell each stock for 1.2k, brass is collected very easily and also sells for alot with minimal effort. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of mods, tools, weapons and armor we find in a PoI that then sells for a bunch. 

.
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you are confusing passive vs active. You dont spend any game hours "making water" you can be grabbing stacks of stone while you wait. lol

passive vs. using precious game hours is a big difference. Then add to the fact that mining will level you up which increases game stage and get stacks of water doesn't in anyway level you like mining. Completely passive income and no influence on game stage = broken economy.

you example is the exact opposite of what I am describing

 
Selling water.. really? I just pulled a stack from my store, it's 80 dukes for stack. Trader takes three stacks per the three day reset, so a stack a day.

Just to pay for the filter, 2250 (?), that's 30 stacks, or about 100 days (as one filter produces 3 water a day, 30 stacks = 300 water = 100 days). After 100 days of daily looting the water and "3-daily" selling, you've earned yourself a new filter.

So, yeah, it's "profitable", but the growth rate is ridiculously slow. And each new filter needs one new trader to accept all of the produced water, so your selling trips grow with every addition.

EDIT: I thought I had had a brainfart, but I was just currently having one - so I clarified the "100 days" a bit.

 
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theFlu said:
Selling water.. really? I just pulled a stack from my store, it's 80 dukes for stack. Trader takes three stacks per the three day reset, so a stack a day.

Just to pay for the filter, 2250 (?), that's 30 stacks, or about 100 days. After 100 days of daily looting the water and "3-daily" selling, you've earned yourself a new filter.

So, yeah, it's "profitable", but the growth rate is ridiculously slow. And each new filter needs one new trader to accept all of the produced water, so your selling trips grow with every addition.
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I'd rather just do 3 t1 clears, or 2 t2 clears and just buy one, much faster. Beside you need that water why would you sell it of all the other possible things you could make a better profit of it anyway?

 
Roland said:
I was counting the debate on forums and social media when I said the debate. That's what I meant. You might not see it because you prefer that TFP capitulate all the way to the way you want it but that doesn't change the historical facts that TFP almost always adjusts back to some degree many of the changes they made that caused in heated debates on this forum-- much to the ire and consternation of other forum users who liked the full changes and then claim TFP gave in to "casuals". (I'm not saying I agree with that--just reporting what I've seen every cycle)
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The only way I could see around this is probably not possible as would most likely be too long to implement.

As you say appeasing one side group would most like likely @%$# off another side group.

The only way I could see to fix it is to make pretty much everything adjustable in menus with buttons, sliders and switches.

Not moddable but actual adjustments you can make in the vanilla game so that veterans and noobs alike could do it

I have no idea on how to program a game but I can speculate that it would be very difficult to do it for a multitude of settings so

that everyone could adjust the game to their liking.

The closest thing I can see is the path they are on now. Add menus for as much as they can and make everything else moddable so

hopefully modders will come up with enough changes to please the rest.

 
theFlu said:
Selling water.. really? I just pulled a stack from my store, it's 80 dukes for stack. Trader takes three stacks per the three day reset, so a stack a day.

Just to pay for the filter, 2250 (?), that's 30 stacks, or about 100 days (as one filter produces 3 water a day, 30 stacks = 300 water = 100 days). After 100 days of daily looting the water and "3-daily" selling, you've earned yourself a new filter.
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I see what you are saying. That's at base selling prices, and only to traders. That doesn't count any player vending machines on an MP server. It wouldn't be perfect, but you could certainly abuse the mechanic pretty easily. The prices of the water filters go down and your selling price of water goes up as you level the associated skills, so day 1 sure it sucks. Max out better barter and those filters cost 1688 and that water is worth 10 each. 5 stations time now goes down to 11 days and you have another filter.

This is only if you are selling to traders and not other players using trader stores in MP. Solo who cares if you cheese it. MP it BREAKS when things like this get out of hand. This isn't as bad as it could be, but if you sold 15 water a day to players at store prices, that's a new filter everyday with barter 5.

 
warmer said:
on an MP server.
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I don't do MP servers, so I may be off by a wide margin, but.. you're essentially arguing that a Free Resource will make so much free money that it needed to be limited. If it's free for you, then it's free for everyone else as well, no?

If you can talk people into throwing money at you then great, but usually a free resource isn't exactly great at making money ... :)

In something like generating inflation, as in printing new dukes, I could see some level of caution required; but this would not even do that, the dukes need be generated by other means.

(For clarity, I don't have strong feelings of the heat mechanic, either way. Screamers are mostly fun, but I do play SP so I rarely see one)

 
warmer said:
I see what you are saying. That's at base selling prices, and only to traders. That doesn't count any player vending machines on an MP server. It wouldn't be perfect, but you could certainly abuse the mechanic pretty easily. The prices of the water filters go down and your selling price of water goes up as you level the associated skills, so day 1 sure it sucks. Max out better barter and those filters cost 1688 and that water is worth 10 each. 5 stations time now goes down to 11 days and you have another filter.

This is only if you are selling to traders and not other players using trader stores in MP. Solo who cares if you cheese it. MP it BREAKS when things like this get out of hand. This isn't as bad as it could be, but if you sold 15 water a day to players at store prices, that's a new filter everyday with barter 5.
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TFP only balances servers up to 8 players. With only 7 potential customers for water you can't get rich even if there were demand for easily obtainable water. So this doesn't work as a motive for TFP to introduce any limits or detriments

 
IMHO, some person in this thread is worthy of  moderator action (suspended post creates for like 14 days). 

 A constant toxic drip of negativity. 

 
Riamus said:
Few developers give this kind of information out, or rarely do.  They don't have to explain themselves to us.  I agree that more communication is great and I applaud the developers who do provide a lot of details on the process involved in the decisions they make but that is rare and not to be expected.
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No, they do not have to explain anything to us, but it helps the players to understand why this decision was made. It is usually the responsibility of the community manager to communicate changes to the players and give feedback to the developers.
 

 
RipClaw said:
No, they do not have to explain anything to us, but it helps the players to understand why this decision was made. It is usually the responsibility of the community manager to communicate changes to the players and give feedback to the developers.
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Yes, it helps... Some people.  But as we have seen here, even when they do tell us the reasons why, it doesn't really change anyone's opinions or make them least frustrated or annoyed.  Part of that is that when decisions aren't logical many people feel like it is just a response to something players are doing that the devs don't like.  If things actually made sense then there'd be less frustration even if people didn't really like it.  I don't even really care about the water changes and magazines and I still think there are things there that are illogical and contradict the stated goals of the changes.  But I don't expect any changes and can only hope my opinions at least get heard by the devs even if they don't care.

 
theFlu said:
If it's free for you, then it's free for everyone else as well, no?
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Free no.

Time+money. In a game where time is more valuable than money in certain scenarios, waiting for it to be created is the worse choice to make when you can buy it to craft much needed duct tape which you end up using a TON of while leveling up weapons/vehicles. I purposely skip every other tier I unlock simply because the cost in duct tape makes it not worth it. 

As far as player count. I have seen servers with 64 players. To say this is only relative to 8 is missing the point. I just did a search for MP and there are dozens of servers above 20. All that to say. Water is incredible value and when it take a lot of time to wait when you don't have all the time in the world, it becomes worth it to buy as a player who needs a TON of duct tape for their next weapon/vehicle upgrade.

 
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