PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[meganoth]

Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment.

The comparison with Rust is not quite applicable since Rust is a pvp game. All pvp games have the advantage that you just need a working scenery and the players do the rest of the entertainment, the developer's only taskafter initial development is to balance everything.

Any single-player and even cooperative game has a limited life time (counted from release of the first playable version!), any amusement must come from stuff/stories/NPCs planted into the game at a speed that is much lower than the familiarization speed of the player. I bet you anything that maximal 2 days after TFP release the complete story module for Navezgane the first player will post "Killed the Duke, reached the end of the main story, what else is there to do?" in this forum.

Actually the early access development model best fits pvp games as only their lifetime is long enough to encompass the ea phase and a final version phase.

If you are speaking as a pvp player, well, lots of other fish aka games in that pool, I'm happy that this game caters to single/coop players first.

If you bring something like skyrim as a counter example to the limited lifetime of SP-games, all the bethesda games have a declining user base comapred to release, and that would be even more pronounced if they didn't have modders to add content all the time.

 

[wicketness]

a friend pointed out there is now 3 new games extremely similar to 7dtd this will be interesting to watch just saying.

 

[lobison444]

what are you talking about? Thats too soon!
Its between now and the end of the human race. I mean, how fun would it be to play 7 days to die, during an actual zombie apocalypse? Xd

loooooolll

 

[Katitof]

Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P

*until beta.

beta is for fixing bugs

alpha for adding features

and hopes are for release before we'll pass the alpha game on new generation

 

[Anabella]

Wow, didn't think anyone else here would have listened to that song

I use to own the 45 of that.

 

[fragtzack]

The AI (pathing)

Lack of end game challenge (behemoth, bandits, etc)

Underground issues (no danger, safe from zombies, etc)

The A17 features being shared by the pimps is cool stuff, but the above 3 items and previous posts on this subject seems much more worthy to work on if there is a priority list "before release".

I have not read all the posts however, if there is no gold release set in stone. Seems that A17 with the fluff (vs core stuff needed) is fine and come back to the core issues in a future Alpha release.

While I have been following the forums somewhat the last 6 months, I agree with the above posters. I stopped playing 7D2D in July after playing A16 because of the AI and lack of a meaningful end game challenge.

 

[Kamikaze]

Sorry for offtopic but Am I only one who don't care about singleplayer and play only multiplayer? Were here poll for MP vs SP sometimes?

 

[Royal Deluxe]

There is a poll thought for PVE vs PVP

>80% play offline

 

[lobison444]

who would like more variety of weapons to melee and shields

post page 444 yes

 

[rdunham3]

I have to laugh at folks who complain that alpha 16 is "so bad" and how the [early access] game is trending poorly on Google, Youtube or really anywhere.

20 years ago a game in this stage of development might get a magazine article, two if it was lucky. It would be a non-entity. You wouldn't get to see the inside of the sausage factory, for that matter they might or might not even admit to making this particular flavor of sausage. Many games got cancelled at or beyond this stage of their development cycle and nobody outside the company was the wiser.

You/we are not entitled to jack squat here. They could have left us with alpha 10 for the last couple of years with no dev chatter, concept art, or even whispers of things perhaps one day to come. I personally think it was a mistake to let a16 hit the general population in the playability state it was in, although 16.4 has treated me well, it's in many ways less interesting because of the system changeouts still in progress. It'll get better once all those dangling half-connected bits get put where they belong with the missing bits attached. Most people can't handle this sausage factory view and keep expecting each alpha release to look and play like a finished game. It's mind boggling, really.

 

[Ouch Quit It]

Hmm, you've never added new key members to a team, I gather...Otherwise, you must be the greatest leader there ever was...

I am.....chicks dig me...cause I rarely wear underwear...and when I do it's usually something special!

 

[Ayrton]

a friend pointed out there is now 3 new games extremely similar to 7dtd this will be interesting to watch just saying.

which?

 

[JaxTeller718]

Just to point out that A16 is trending down to the lowest point 7 days has ever been on google, and youtube, and many, many long time twitch streamers have switched games. If we have to wait well into 2018, with the AI being the way it is now, this'll be a very dead game. I appreciate you guys hired more devs, but that should have been done long ago, just like Ark, the reason it's successful, they kept growing. another year + wait for an Alpha is just unacceptable, this game should be well into Beta now.
I've spent a long time defending this game and the ultra slow dev of it, but I'm pretty much done. I know a lot won't care, but the hopes of a dev reading this and understanding that investment is key to a successful game, and having sold millions of copies, its not unjustified to demand it.

You stop being indy, when your pockets are full. than you're a studio. Hopefully we see some actual action out of this team, or this game is dead in two years. Esp with very little content added in A17, we need less poi's and more intense development of the core game. 4 years and nowhere close to beta.

Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment.

Let's step it up guys.

once again, i stand firm on saying there is NO excuse for the current AI system, which drove away all my friends that played the game since day 1. NO excuse. FIX it. A lot of other alpha devs fix and bug fix as they are building, the excuse that you'll fix them during Beta is no longer valid. that's only valid when a game spends a small amount in dev, not almost a year between major updates.

*edited. put 5 years instead of 4

VERY hard to argue against this. As much as I love the Team and the game, the stagnation is real. Modding will only take you so far. Who I feel bad for are the official streamers who seemed to have been used for their intended purpose and then left without much else to do.

It was initially said they would get previews and perhaps small glimpses of upcoming changes. This is initially what drove some forum-ers mad and started #streamergate. If only we had known how inconsequential they were to become I don't think anyone would have bothered to care to argue about it.

There are a LOT of new survival games featuring zombies being kick started. All it takes is a hungry dev with great work ethic and someone may be able to capitalize on this games success. Then they will no longer be the standard in the industry but merely the shell with which others built THEIR success on. A game like Dead Matter if developed properly could easily catch fans of the zombie genres attention, and a voxelized medieval or gothic style game could easily attract the builders and explorers. There is always someone out there looking at what other games do and then builds on what the fans are looking for.

I would hate to see another game take the throne from this one, but an update well into the New Year with so many games coming out that are similar? That is a bit risky.

 

[Guppycur]

I disagree; I came here to say what rdunham3 said... Basically, that under the old rules we wouldn't have even heard of this game at this stage of development... But we are playing by the new, and evolving rules, so we have to accept it for what it is.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P

You singled out ONE line from his otherwise spot on post.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Since when does expectations of players change the by natural laws given fact that a game need XY time to be produced ?

 

[Maharin]

Well, in all fairness, I'm the only one that matters.

EDIT: In all fairness, people should know I'm joking with this.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I disagree; I came here to say what rdunham3 said... Basically, that under the old rules we wouldn't have even heard of this game at this stage of development... But we are playing by the new, and evolving rules, so we have to accept it for what it is.

While this is true, under the new rules EA is a competitive market. Now companies and teams LOVE to stand behind the "Well you paid to be in on it so accept it" line but in truth once you SELL and release and outsource for a console release you are in competition with every other EA game out there, some of whom may be doing it faster and better than you are.

So yes we are given a peek behind the curtain we normally would never have gotten but EA is the new standard in gaming. Everyone is doing it and it is JUST as much a market as a gold release. As a matter of fact when a game DOES go gold after being in EA for a long while no one even seems to care. Its a formality at that point. Everyone has already bought into it by that point.

- - - Updated - - -

Since when does expectations of players change the by natural laws given fact that a game need XY time to be produced ?

Since competitive EA threw the rules out the window. We are playing by the new rules now where EA is an actual THING and it is competitive, just as competitive as actual gold releases.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I have to laugh at folks who complain that alpha 16 is "so bad" and how the [early access] game is trending poorly on Google, Youtube or really anywhere.
20 years ago a game in this stage of development might get a magazine article, two if it was lucky. It would be a non-entity. You wouldn't get to see the inside of the sausage factory, for that matter they might or might not even admit to making this particular flavor of sausage. Many games got cancelled at or beyond this stage of their development cycle and nobody outside the company was the wiser.

You/we are not entitled to jack squat here. They could have left us with alpha 10 for the last couple of years with no dev chatter, concept art, or even whispers of things perhaps one day to come. I personally think it was a mistake to let a16 hit the general population in the playability state it was in, although 16.4 has treated me well, it's in many ways less interesting because of the system changeouts still in progress. It'll get better once all those dangling half-connected bits get put where they belong with the missing bits attached. Most people can't handle this sausage factory view and keep expecting each alpha release to look and play like a finished game. It's mind boggling, really.

I would agree, but don't you think the fact that EVERY game now a days is EA means the rules have changed? Much like DLC was NEVER a thing back in the nes days now it is standard. EA is quickly becoming a standard way to fund projects further. It isn't all about bug testing. This game and others prove some bugs aren't even worth fixing right away. The main advantage of releasing today is the early influx of cash to continue the project. It is the new way of going to investors and asking for money.

As investors, and with this new attitude by the gaming industry you can't compare development from 10 years to today. If it is STILL supposed to take 10 years to fully develop a game then DON'T release to Early Access. Keep that to the Testing team. If you DO release to EA then yes you are subject to public scrutiny and competition from other EA releases in your genre. Its unavoidable.

 

[Guppycur]

I think the concept is new so that a lot of these companies are experimenting with what works and what doesn't. I don't think we'll know for another few years yet.