PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Oh man...this is minimap zombie radar blip playbook 101
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Watching a red dot on a map is WAY different than having an on screen cue to a sensation you could never actually feel because you are playing a game. My stomach doesn't often growl like it does in game, even when I am hungry. Likewise i can not see a person on my gps that I do not know by looking at a paper map. So one was removed to make the game more difficult. The other was removed for screen clutter.

I'm not sure this was a tactical move on Pimps part to enhance gameplay. I think MM and others wanted people to enjoy the distant POIs and the new textures etc and didn't want the screen cluttered. Not sure why are making this sound like Pimps is reinventing the wheel. Even Gazz seems to want it back.

 
Oh man...this is minimap zombie radar blip playbook 101.
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Really ?

(can be much more beautyfull if it is not a 2 minute image edit)

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And I get the whole modding in and out thing... I've made that same argument many times. But if we're really nearing the end of this whole thing then perhaps going forward work could be done on making these kind of things optional. So that when something is "removed" it is just simply set to invisible by default. Most players aren't modders, even in games like this.
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Going to be that guy again maybe because I play pc and console lol. But anyway console players can't mod so what you said goes toward them as well. I'm 100% game for this to be in the option menu. I can just leave it the way it currently is when playing both lol

 
You are just plain wrong on food and drink. Sorry but you live a very sedentary life if you truly believe this.
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In real i have around 72 Hours to Drink or up to 14 Days to Eat before i die.

When i feel that i need to drink or eat i have Hours before it starts to disturb me.

I can plan my actions along this

* After meeting i go to a diner

* Tomorrow i harvest some snowberrys, loot some Kitchens and try to Hunt a Deer.

Ingame

Ohh 22:00 and i feel first hunger damn at 23:00 i am death

Hot and cold shows up in the game as soon as you are. What's the issue with that?
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I wear my warm clothes not when i suffer Hypothermia, i wear them when i see that the weather changes

Stamina is a useless bar.
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In which game ?

 
At this point Roland has to be trolling. Stamina a useless bar? Roland you are treading VERY close to TELLING people what they should like in the game.

You love playing with a HUD less game. Thats awesome. More power to you. I love playing with zombies headshot only, and I feel NO weapon should do ANY body damage. But I'm not silly enough to suggest we make this part of the default game.

And you are overlooking one very important thing. You try to discredit Royal with your examples yet fail to explain how you can relate real life hunger to in game hunger when in game you need to eat and drink an ABSURD amount of times, to the point where even if you TRIED to use common sense it doesn't work. I would never die in 24 hours if I did not eat or drink. But in game I can die in 8.

But just over eat right? Well I turn animals way down in my game, and I also limit the harvest of meat. I also lower the amount food and water gives to make food survival harder. So these items aren't as abundant as they are in vanilla. Yep I mod it the way I like it. But I'm not going around trying to convince everyone that we need this to be the way the game handles default food, even though I for sure think it is the right way.

Food and Water bars on a UI are standard. I'd love the option to toggle each one off. Well wait, we DO have that option. I can guarantee you there are more people modding the bars back IN than there are taking more bars OFF.

 
Same is true of the food bar. Without it you may forget to check and then find yourself in a precarious spot with only 10% fullness left and what you choose to do at that point could lead to a triumphant moment or death and it is that specific scenario that makes this survival game addictive. Every time you find yourself in a situation where imminent triumph or imminent death are both very possible the game gets good.
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Why that pesky O2 gauge then? Without it you may forget to check and then find yourself in a precarious spot with only 10% Oxygen left and what you choose to do at that point could lead to a triumphant moment or death and it is that specific scenario that makes this survival game addictive. Every time you find yourself in a situation where imminent triumph or imminent death are both very possible the game gets good.

I mean...it's not like you could possibly know exactly how long you could hold your breath!

and...

Why should we have a detailed ammo level? Without it you may forget to check and then find yourself in a precarious spot with only 10% ammunition left and what you choose to do at that point could lead to a triumphant moment or death and it is that specific scenario that makes this survival game addictive. Every time you find yourself in a situation where imminent triumph or imminent death are both very possible the game gets good.

I mean...it's not like you could possibly know exactly how many 9mm rounds were in that pouch...right??

and...

Why should we have any buff indicator? Without it you may forget to check and then find yourself in a precarious spot presuming you were perfectly fine and what you choose to do at that point could lead to a triumphant moment or death and it is that specific scenario that makes this survival game addictive. Every time you find yourself in a situation where imminent triumph or imminent death are both very possible the game gets good.

I mean...it's not like you could possibly diagnose if you'd actually contracted some illness or broken your leg?...Whadru...somekindadoctor??

For crying out loud....we know how hungry and thirsty we are...almost always. This is a needless sacrifice of reality to enhance "gameplay". How about "Tetris Zombies" that force you to complete three waves of "Bone-Tetris" whenever you're hit....that'd sure add to our imminent gameplay; not so sure it'd make the game good.

-Morloc

 
But it MAY showcase the XP Bar!
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Or more. Maybe this is why it is taking a extra day or so to release the video hahahha

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Food and Water bars on a UI are standard. I'd love the option to toggle each one off. Well wait, we DO have that option. I can guarantee you there are more people modding the bars back IN than there are taking more bars OFF.
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Of course because the food and water bar is already off lol

 
Roland

You know there are other ways to let the player know that there avatar is hungry, sick or not well.

\

Being hungry and/or thirst would effect overall performance such as running speed and endurance (stamina). Burning through a lot more stamina per second for example.

A bad injury could effect this AND make the player hobble due to a leg injury. Not just slow down.

Weaker when fighting as well or if real bad stumbling and missing all together.

Other indicators could be things like screen goes in and out of focus at times (blurred vision).

Avatar view suddenly changes as if falling down due to weakness. Could also stumble as well.

Cuts or gashes on the avatar's hands and arms to show injury's and infection.

Infection getting worse over time if left untreated.

Trembling due to cold.

Sweating due to heat showing up on hands and arms.

Moan due to injury or illness.

Adding this to the other Q's already in the game such as.

Sounds like stomach growling. Heartbeat when bleeding out.

Color change due to injury (bleeding out).

This could go a long way to showing the player problems and soon removing on screen icons due to them not being needed.

As it would not break immersion.

 
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Punishing and allowing for human error that can have survival repercussions are two different things. Keeping the food bar off the screen is "punishing" in the same sense that removing the minimap with zombie radar blips was "punishing" players. The same exact arguments were thrown out at that time. The radar blips were said to compensate for the lack of environmental awareness that a video game has compared to real life and those who wanted it called its removal "poor design" as well. (I even recall a deaf guy threatened to cause bad press if it wasn't reinstated)
My intent is not to punish players but to remove unnecessary crutches from the game if that removal results in more situations where survival is threatened and the player has to adapt and fight for their life. Without the blips one could get hit from behind and stunned and then killed. But that risk adds value to the game and forces the player to be more vigilant and when something bad happens and you survive it creates a triumphant moment that makes the game feel awesome.

Same is true of the food bar. Without it you may forget to check and then find yourself in a precarious spot with only 10% fullness left and what you choose to do at that point could lead to a triumphant moment or death and it is that specific scenario that makes this survival game addictive. Every time you find yourself in a situation where imminent triumph or imminent death are both very possible the game gets good.

The food bar on screen is too much of an aid in my opinion. It robs the gameplay of those moments of triumph vs death just like the minimap with zombie radar blips robbed the game of those same type of moments.

The only real difference between the two was that YOU were able to reverse the food bar with your HUD mod probably almost immediately and never gave it a real chance whereas modding in the minimap was not possible so you had to adapt. If the minimap could have been modded back in immediately and with the same relative ease as the food bar you can bet that it too would be a hugely popular mod and a whole faction of the community who never really gave it a chance or adapted their gameplay to the new normal would be still calling its removal "punishing" and "bad design".
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Minimap and food bars are not even close and if you cannot tell the difference then there is no point even trying to discuss the issue with you. We will have to disagree if you cannot see the difference between a magic GPS mapping system with blips for beings versus something your character would innately, intimately, and with a single thought be able to decide. If you can actually tell the difference between the 2 then you are just trolling and purposeful trolling would be rather rude.

Anything you've said while comparing the 2 just illustrates your lack of comprehension of the difference or the level of trolling ocurring. As such, like I said, just have to agree to disagree. Not going to play this out whilst you compare a magic minimap with motion sensors and being/animal identification to something your own body would tell you.

 
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Oh man...this is minimap zombie radar blip playbook 101




You are just plain wrong on food and drink. Sorry but you live a very sedentary life if you truly believe this.

Hot and cold shows up in the game as soon as you are. What's the issue with that?

Stamina is a useless bar.

Health bar is critical. I agree with that but I also play without that and function just fine....
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If you remove the bar and give us other indicators, like Hurting soungs or a bloodied vision on the screen I would also like to get rid of the health bar...of it coulds just blend in when you reach a certain level like 25% HP btw i love the frozen screen in savage lands when you get too cold.

the toolbelt on the other hand is nice just because i like easy play ^^ but if it would fade away when not used... that would be nice ^^

 
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Roland
You know there are other ways to let the player know that there avatar is hungry, sick or not well.

\

Being hungry and/or thirst would effect overall performance such as running speed and endurance (stamina).

A bad injury could effect this AND make the player hobble due to a leg injury. Not just slow down.

Other indicators could be things like screen goes in and out of focus at times (blurred vision).

Avatar view suddenly changes as if falling down due to weakness. Could also stumble as well.

Cuts or gashes on the avatar's hands and arms to show injury's.

Trembling due to cold.

Sweating due to heat showing up on hands and arms.

Moan due to injury or illness.

Adding this to the other Q's already in the game such as.

Sound.

Color change due to injury.

This could go a long way to showing the player problems and soon removing on screen icons due to them not being needed.

As it would not break immersion.
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Like this ?

7A9E643119A0E10E9EF5DA4BD65A82654F404D21


 
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