PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
- Thread starter Roland
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JaxTeller718
New member
How did i MISS this! Nice work!!
petruherro
New member
Where is the video that he promised?
crazywildfire
New member
I don't recall him promising but maybe something came up and he wasn't able to make a video. It will come soon just hang in there.
Red Eagle LXIX
Community Moderator
If the intent to cause player error about something they should have innate unerring knowledge with just a simple thought (no menu looking in a backpack) then that is indeed trolling and being purposefully a bad design. End game, no point even talking discussing it if the goal is to punish the player for not having the innate knowledge that should be provided by the their body.
Even in real life when you get distracted (and when you are distracted you are often not looking at the GUI) you can miss queues. Correct, but it only takes an instant or even passing thought to remind you. You don't have to make a conscious effort to look in a backpack, looking down at an out of the way GUI element is the equivalent of said passing thought.
You've made quite clear your intention is to punish the player for not knowing something they would innately know if the body was their own. This is an encouragement of bad design.
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Lonestarcanuck
New member
since we are not on the subject of brass. lets talk about how it can become a shortage, especially in a server that has gone on for 100s of days.
Facts:
-- Brass in game comes from finite objects, car parts, house parts/items.
-- Ammo needs brass
-- you don't get your casings back
-- can make brass because the game does not have copper and Zinc
We need a solution - maybe a Geology perk that allows for discovery of other resources like Zinc/Copper that can be smelted?
Facts:
-- Brass in game comes from finite objects, car parts, house parts/items.
-- Ammo needs brass
-- you don't get your casings back
-- can make brass because the game does not have copper and Zinc
We need a solution - maybe a Geology perk that allows for discovery of other resources like Zinc/Copper that can be smelted?
crazywildfire
New member
Maybe the way it is said could be looked at it that way. But personally I don't think the way it is now is a bad design. It is just simply a opinion of if you like it the way it is or don't like it. But I wouldn't call it a bad design. I happen to be one of the ones that do like the way it is and I don't ever open the character menu up to check where I'm at. So I personally don't need anything in my face 24/7 showing me where I'm at. It already has the info I need when I need to know. But this is my preference and I'm not saying it is the best and the other is worse. So I can understand where the ones that want it in the face all the time are coming from. But I wouldn't call what is in place right now a bad design.
Odetta
Tester
I have tons of 7.62 rounds that don't use brass but a steel casing. They are actually the cheapest option too. I think brass should only be used in electronics and be sold in ingots at the trader. Steel for bullets 2017!since we are not on the subject of brass. lets talk about how it can become a shortage, especially in a server that has gone on for 100s of days.
Facts:
-- Brass in game comes from finite objects, car parts, house parts/items.
-- Ammo needs brass
-- you don't get your casings back
-- can make brass because the game does not have copper and Zinc
We need a solution - maybe a Geology perk that allows for discovery of other resources like Zinc/Copper that can be smelted?
Just adding for myself.
Nor does stating your opinion based on how you like it, is encouraging bad game design.
Srry Red, it's just your opinion that it's encouraging bad game design and it's Roland's opinion on how he likes it and would like to see it go.
Roland can't help it if he's an 'M'. It's just how his brain is wired. (jk jk)
DaVegaNL
Beloved Curmudgeon
As the resident geologist; I approve of this!since we are not on the subject of brass. lets talk about how it can become a shortage, especially in a server that has gone on for 100s of days.
Facts:
-- Brass in game comes from finite objects, car parts, house parts/items.
-- Ammo needs brass
-- you don't get your casings back
-- can make brass because the game does not have copper and Zinc
We need a solution - maybe a Geology perk that allows for discovery of other resources like Zinc/Copper that can be smelted?
Red Eagle LXIX
Community Moderator
Correct, it is my opinion that it is bad design to punish the player with an error of wasting resources or going out when not properly fed or hydrated because the innate knowledge that their own body would have told them was hidden in a menu in a backpack instead of where a passing thought would have filled in the information just as a passing thought in real life answers the state of own's own body.
crazywildfire
New member
I know how more options isn't always the best thing but in this case I don't see why or where it would hurt to have a hub option menu in the vanilla. That way everyone gets what they want with no worries of mods one way or the other. Because it is pretty clear what one thinks is a bad game design the other does not. Where one doesn't ever open up the pack but yet still knows where they are on food and water the other does not. Just seems something like this would be better off having it in the option menu along with what you want to show and not show with no mods needed.
Locnar
New member
Perhaps a few new buff icons would suffice
Full = :fat: small negative to stamina regen
Normal = (No icon / negatives or positives
Hungry =
ffended: no negatives or positivesVery Hungry = :distrust: Stomach grumbling sounds
Starving = :upset: Standard negatives
Just a thought.
I relay don't have a strong feeling one way or the other...
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Roland
Moderator
This isn't my argument for not having the food bar. This is my argument for why removing everything and playing with invisible HUD is so awesome. On the issue of popups, however, which one is it? Are they too distracting or too unnoticeable? Seems pro food bar people will say whatever they want. If the pop ups are more distracting then why are you missing the notification?
Let me clarify. You are correct that eating for the purpose of finding out if you are hungry is backwards and not intuitive. My point has always been that you are not actually starving until you are at 0%. There are zero penalties for any percentage of fullness and if you overeat you get the extra even though it the popup will only show 100% as the max. So if you think about it (as you would in real life) and wonder if you could eat something and you know its been at least a few hours since the last time you ate then the answer is that you can go ahead and eat and you don't have to check a bar for permission. I agree that 11% is a critical stat for needing to eat and its also literally only a few seconds away from the permanent indicator of 10% that will count down to 0% for you. The only time when eating at 11% vs eating at 10% is going to be a matter of life or death is.....never. So I'm not really saying to eat in order to know-- I'm saying that you can eat pretty much any time you are worried about it and want to check because from 11% to 99% the feeling of "I could probably eat something..." is the same.
No. It's more like that at 100% you can't eat another bite. From 11% - 99% you are satisfied and not really hungry at all but you also aren't full and you could eat something if you wanted to but its not really necessary. In other words, I don't really even think the pop ups at 75%, 50%, or 25% are even necessary. All you need is the tummy rumbling and and the permanent 10% icon. The other popups are just twinges. You can certainly think about whether you are wanting to eat something more often than those notifications and when you think about it you can eat instead of going to the character screen.
The personal example was simply to show that in real life you can often not feel hungry when you are. People who say that they are always aware of how full or how hungry they would be in the environment depicted in the game are simply wrong. They would not. Three days of real life loss of appetite has nothing to do with proving a need for a bar. Your admitted profound unawareness when playing the game is actually the proof that perhaps you personally do need the crutch of an always visible bar although from your own description maybe you also need that bar to pulsate.....
I don't need it or want it.
These are the same arguments that came up when the minimap was removed. "The game will suffer." "The map simulates our ability to be aware of our surroundings in a way that isn't possible in a first person perspective video game" "People will die having to go to a different screen to check their map and that is bad design"
But the result is that it was great design and people got used to it. The only difference here is that most of the people who complain are those who never got used to it because they immediately modded bar back in. I played this game for almost 1000 hours while it had the food and water bars and I never looked back after they were removed. I like it a lot better without the bars. But I realize that its just my preference and I'm not against playing a modded game so if they put the bars back in I'll be fine.
Roland's post came up before I saw it, busy typing the post below. I still don't agree with him, but that's okay, it is our opinion. He doesn't have to agree with me in how I see it. If you are busy busting up rocks and your hunger has dropped to 0% and a zombie horde shows up, you will probably die before you finish killing them as you didn't have time to check and see if you are hungry, missed the percentage that states you are hungry. You may not have time to kill all the zombies and then go and find some food as a new player who hasn't seen any game for two days and found very few cans of food.
**************** my post before I added to it.
On hunger, all I know is that in real life I can physically feel when I am hungry and thirsty. My character can only let me know by sounds and the silly looking pop-ups that half the time I miss as she is busy doing stuff. Sounds that I can miss when running for my life, fighting to stay alive, digging, busting rocks or other activities where I am focused on them. I'm not physically feeling the hunger/thirst so I don't know she is hungry or thirsty.
As for the temp. Sorry, but I think the sun and snowflake are downright silly, idiotic looking. I get a silly frown when I am too hot! Or a snowflake when it is getting cold. I can see that in a kiddie game, but a zombie game?
There needs to be a bar for hunger, thirst, heat and cold, wellness, health. I don't care about experience, stage, levels or such. I can check them when I am free and not in danger. I don't have time to check the others when I am fighting, struggling to stay alive. They can be as simple as a glass that has blue in it for water that drops as you get thirsty or looks full and lowers with your need for water. Thermometers that show red for hot and blue for cold. Bars work also, but if they want something that doesn't take up room use symbols like I have seen in other games. A plate for food that loses color; a circle that has blue ring for water and gold for hunger. A quick glance lets you know your hunger/thirst is dropping and you need to take care of it.
It doesn't have to take a lot of room, but I personally think it is needed, not the xp, or skill level or something that isn't connected to my staying alive; just my opinion.
**************** my post before I added to it.
On hunger, all I know is that in real life I can physically feel when I am hungry and thirsty. My character can only let me know by sounds and the silly looking pop-ups that half the time I miss as she is busy doing stuff. Sounds that I can miss when running for my life, fighting to stay alive, digging, busting rocks or other activities where I am focused on them. I'm not physically feeling the hunger/thirst so I don't know she is hungry or thirsty.
As for the temp. Sorry, but I think the sun and snowflake are downright silly, idiotic looking. I get a silly frown when I am too hot! Or a snowflake when it is getting cold. I can see that in a kiddie game, but a zombie game?
There needs to be a bar for hunger, thirst, heat and cold, wellness, health. I don't care about experience, stage, levels or such. I can check them when I am free and not in danger. I don't have time to check the others when I am fighting, struggling to stay alive. They can be as simple as a glass that has blue in it for water that drops as you get thirsty or looks full and lowers with your need for water. Thermometers that show red for hot and blue for cold. Bars work also, but if they want something that doesn't take up room use symbols like I have seen in other games. A plate for food that loses color; a circle that has blue ring for water and gold for hunger. A quick glance lets you know your hunger/thirst is dropping and you need to take care of it.
It doesn't have to take a lot of room, but I personally think it is needed, not the xp, or skill level or something that isn't connected to my staying alive; just my opinion.
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The-Walking-Dad
New member
I like no (main screen) HUD!
I would love it if that became an option.
I would love it if that became an option.
JaxTeller718
New member
But poor game design doesn't allow interaction with the world when you do that
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