PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Royal Deluxe]

The problem was simply that by digging a 5 deep trench around such a spot the player would have a impenetrable platform.

So if we have no possibility to deny only damage from above it would be too imba.

Finally Vaults are only balanced because the player need to skip the Zombies and their loot, beeing unreachable during a fight dont fit to my opinion of balance.

Maybe dependent how the Digger will/would be implemented it is possible to deaktivate the digging ability inside the Biomes. That would work

 

[JaxTeller718]

How can you be against the idea of small biomes that are impenetrable to Zombies. After >500 posts long we "Baserock Dweller" need to defend our way to play this is a possibility to have both.Zero Influence to your Gameplay except you mean you must build on these rare spots.

And now there is a suggestion that allow the "We want underground challenges" side to do that and the "We not" side too and there is no way to harass the oposite because they take anything from you away. You ask for the removal of the topic^^

I'm not against it at all. I love and believe in modding and doing all you can to make the game playable as you wish through modding. But that idea does not belong in the game. Rentable spaces sure, towns where you can hole up and be safe sure. But zombies should still attack the outer walls, and bandits should still be able to get in. For every opportunity at a safe place there should be a challenge to KEEPING it safe. If you want to build without worry from any threats you play a creative game. In the actual Vanilla game as is? No there should NOT be a 100 percent completely safe area where you can dig and build in absolute safety.

It's only my opinion but it's also about keeping the integrity of the actual game world intact. Do what you wish AFTER you get the game in your hands. Mod it as you wish, choose the option to turn zombies off and build away. But in the default game, no. No safe biomes where you can play creative in a normal world. That is what creative is for.

What if I said I believe I should have an Admin Tool in the world because not being able to use an Admin Tool infringes on my play style. Would it make sense to let EVERYONE in the vanilla world have an Admin Tool? No it wouldn't.

Every living area should have its advantages and disadvantages. You only stifle content and creativity in challenges when you say something needs to be 100 percent safe without first setting up a series of challenges to get to that point. Underground living can be SAFER but should STILL come with its own challenges to overcome or the integrity of the survival game is at question. In any other game this would be considered an exploit. ANY OTHER GAME. Not modified but the default game. This is almost the only game I know of where you can completely avoid a game's basic challenges and people DEFEND that as a play style.

 

[graphite]

LOL! I bet Joel and the rest of the TFP crew are taking bets right now, on an outcome to the discussion. We the plebes are entertainment for the nobility!
-A

I would start talking about structual integrity again but i promised Roland i would not and i have already broken that twice today.

 

[Pille]

The problem was simply that by digging a 5 deep trench around such a spot the player would have a impenetrable platform.So if we have no possibility to deny only damage from above it would be too imba.

I think there are solutions to this problem but they're quite artificial/unnatural... I'll think about it.

 

[beerfly]

I agree but shooting one self in foot comes to mind with regards there was a scrap of an idea tossed into the inferno and we squabbled like rabid dogs only strengthing one of the issues of MM reasons to not release features that may or may not make it.
But yes video please

True. But its work in progress. You create something, try it , if doesn`t work you leave it for better stuff to implement. Joel was hyped as much as us , to give us this new experiense. It all have it costs. Lesson learned and pimps keep pimpin.

More of us haven`t seen game from A1 till now, blessed are ones that played since beginning and know how hell of a good this game is goin through time. Cheers.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

No there should NOT be a 100 percent completely safe area where you can dig and build in absolute safety.

Look in the survey 30% of the player wish that. And NOT as Creative game

 

[dhlmaster]

Lets talk about removing spikes

Do you actually want spikes removed, or are you using it as an example of something that people would get mad about having removed, as a parallel to you being upset about not being able to have your underground base with diggers?

I use spikes, but only around my base. I can hear the zombies attacking my spikes before I can hear the zombies themselves, so it's a warning system for my base. I hear the spikes breaking, and I come out and fight. I still end up getting some base damage from larger hordes or from bm night, and I go through a lot of wood to maintain that outer defense.

I don't go around spamming the whole map with spikes as a lazy way to slow down and hurt zombies that are chasing me. Taking spikes away from me because someone else exploits or you don't like them would be as ridiculous as making your underground base unviable because someone else abuses the system or doesn't like underground bases. So if you were going for an analogy, it was a good one.

 

[beerfly]

Look in the survey 30% of the player wish that. And NOT as Creative game

Do they know that they can switch off zombies ? Or change difficulty. Or set creative mode on. Hm.

Don`t know, if what they want happens 7 days to die 2 can be changed to Few days til I die.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Do you actually want spikes removed, or are you using it as an example of something that people would get mad about having removed.....

In real i dont care about this, oceans of Spikes i feel as really cheesy, but hey as long as nobody place them inside the towns/pois i really dont care.

But i really think that the most players who harass the Bedrock dwellers use one way to cheat the system.

* Oceans of Spikes

* CM menue

* Fake Ladders,Doors,Hatches

* Tootpick Design

* Bases on Pillars

* A high amount of Turrets (with raised Brass availability by modding)

* Abuse the imbalance of traders

* Respawn if they die

* Easy Difficulty Settings

* Loot Abundancy >25%

* Loot respawn < 30 Days

* Use the Previewer to watch the map

* 50% Pillars to melee through

* Killpits

* Reinforced Conrete and Steel Bases

* Mods that give benefits

...

So why not make the witchhunter to the witch

- - - Updated - - -

Do they know that they can switch off zombies ? Or change difficulty. Or set creative mode on. Hm. Don`t know, if what they want happens 7 days to die 2 can be changed to Few days til I die.

I think the most do, but if you want it for sure, ask them.

I know it and i votet for safe places

 

[graphite]

In real i dont care about this, oceans of Spikes i feel as really cheesy, but hey as long as nobody place them inside the towns/pois i really dont care.
But i really think that the most players who harass the Bedrock dwellers use one way to cheat the system.

* Oceans of Spikes

* CM menue

* Fake Ladders,Doors,Hatches

* Tootpick Design

* Bases on Pillars

* A high amount of Turrets (with raised Brass availability by modding)

* Abuse the imbalance of traders

* Respawn if they die

* Easy Difficulty Settings

* Loot Abundancy >25%

* Loot respawn < 30 Days

* Use the Previewer to watch the map

* 50% Pillars to melee through

* Killpits

* Reinforced Conrete and Steel Bases

* Mods that give benefits

...

So why not make the witchhunter to the witch

- - - Updated - - -

I think nthe most do, but if you want it for sure, ask them.

I know it and i votet for safe places

I am not sure if all of those are cheats.

Actually i define poking memory a cheat and everything else circumventing design but hey.

But yes your right balance issues throw them all into the inferno and see what we can do with them.

There is plenty there i am hoping a 0.00000001 chance we forge something slightly usable

 

[Tilleen]

Psuedocode it into simple rulesets
Sounds interesting calculating SI of an area instead of a single metre squared column.

I am interested how you get each connecting area to sync up.

I don't do psuedocode, only C/C++ (also ksh).

Also sorry about making you talk about SI, I can talk about my ideas for water if you like. :-;

 

[beerfly]

@Royal Deluxe.

Good point. Nature know how to survive. But there must be a ballance. Since game is still in developement we all know there could be many ways that it could go different in a matter of surviving. Still, I think what you got in your list is true, people find ways. Such as nature to survive. I am sure there will be new way of survival after new AI is injected.

Can`t wait. Keep giving ideas and ways to keep devs from us players, having lazy ingame days !

 

[dhlmaster]

In real i dont care about this, oceans of Spikes i feel as really cheesy, but hey as long as nobody place them inside the towns/pois i really dont care.
But i really think that the most players who harass the Bedrock dwellers use one way to cheat the system.

* Oceans of Spikes

* CM menue

* Tootpick Design

* Bases on Pillars

* A high amount of Turrets (with raised Brass availability by modding)

* Abuse the imbalance of traders

* Respawn if they die

* Easy Difficulty Settings

* Loot Abundancy >25%

* Loot respawn < 30 Days

* Use the Previewer to watch the map

* 50% Pillars to melee through

* Killpits

* Reinforced Conrete and Steel Bases

* Mods that give benefits

...

So why not make the witchhunter to the witch

- - - Updated - - -

I think nthe most do, but if you want it for sure, ask them.

I know it and i votet for safe places

I guess the way that I see it, none of these things are exploits, including a base at bedrock. It takes a long time when you are at a low level to dig all the way down and clear a good sized area. I say anything that helps you survive the first couple bloodmoons is a good tactic. I personally like to build a 2x2 pillar of cobblestone with iron bars at the top. I will shoot from safety for the first couple waves, and then when my structure becomes compromised, I jump down and do melee. I do this away from my home base. Home base for me is usually a POI that I reinforce, then eventually dig into the ground. I don't have the patience to do a lot of digging until I have been able to get a good mining skill and a good pickaxe. If you do have the patience to dig a good base underground, then you have done at least as much work as someone who builds above ground. You deserve whatever safety that afforded you.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I am not sure if all of those are cheats.

Depends on the context, if a Bunker 50 Meters underground with 4xSteel in each direction is defined as Exploit if safe, then this list is 100% a cheatlist ^^

 

[Roland]

How much safety do you deserve digging down 3 meters and sticking a Frame block over your head?

Because it’s 100%.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Screw it. I want a mid game shield generator feature. Creates a 5x5x5 immunity bubble and floats in air. Can build anything in it. Like... Storage.

So there. ;-p

 

[dhlmaster]

How much safety do you deserve digging down 3 meters and sticking a Frame block over your head?
Because it’s 100%.

Never tried that. Still, I would think that missing out on all of the XP and loot from fighting the horde is its own punishment.

 

[Pille]

How much safety do you deserve digging down 3 meters and sticking a Frame block over your head?
Because it’s 100%.

The bloodmoon hordes dig. This is the result of two bloodmoons:

So it's not 100%.

 

[graphite]

Depends on the context, if a Bunker 50 Meters underground with 4xSteel in each direction is defined as Exploit if safe, then this list is 100% a cheatlist ^^

Some of them are standard ingame options etc ?

I dont clase underground dwelling as an exploit in fact do and would use it with UDZ but i would rather funnel zombies down to the bedrock and have a way of getting a vehicle up and down then deal with the unknown threats TFP are hatching.

Itt could be equipment related to suvive and/or events that are just as destructive to your base.

Or they might just leave it a safehaven ?

 

[Jackelmyer]

How much safety do you deserve digging down 3 meters and sticking a Frame block over your head?
Because it’s 100%.

Roland... that's long been the silliest argument to anything. Who plays this game in a 1x1x3 deep hole for 200+ days? More importantly, what majority does that? pffft