PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[petruherro]

Anybody knows when mm is gonna give us a new vid?

 

[Jedo]

But to be against something because it could damage a building? Damaging buildings is the very heart of this game. It is a fully destructible world. This isn't even about limiting someone's play style. This is blatantly saying "I don't want this because it would hinder my ability to make nice things". At some point large builders have to remember this is a game with threats and as such those threats need to be planned for.

The problem with a large forum like this is that we have many sides discussing, and not every side is coming from the same direction even if they seem to be. I preface my comments with this to say that I might not be speaking for Royal or Janna or Aldranon.

I don't think this is an accurate description of this side of the argument. I think the concern is about directly targeting a certain play style. Obviously damage to buildings is part of the game, "a game with threats and as such those threats need to be planned for." The thing is that underground builders have done just that. Having done that, a new mechanic needs to be introduced to counter their plan?

(I think I understand correctly that TFP always envisioned some sort of underground threat, so that takes a little wind out of this argument. However, it doesn't change the fact that I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem that underground builders have with underground threats.)

 

[Royal Deluxe]

But minibiome with no downside to it i am not sure of but it is an idea so i hope others treat it with reasonable questions and counters.

Why, if YOU want a Underground challenge 90% of all Underground is yours

WE have the 10% without this nonsense

So more i need to defend my way to play so less i accept any compromises.

I feel like talking against a wall, and i really tried to find Compromises and explain the problems for my way to play. Nobody cares, so i join this behavior.

Lets talk about removing spikes

 

[dcsobral]

Because of this nearly nobody build near a cliff. And this diggers would make every place to a cliff.The point is that there are a huge group of players who like to build really big. (With zombies in the world)

Look at this picture.

Dark Blue = Crates

Red = SI Pillars

to add a Defense against Diggers would mean instead 4x4 SI Pillars (16) you would need 6x6 Pillars (36).

I hope all that read this understand how much difference this makes. You suddenly would need more than the double amount of work and materials.

And if this would not be enough. Now imagine you will need to Defend 4-10 Storys. Means you spend the whole Horde night by running the Defence Rings of all storys. I cant see there any fun

I really don't understand the issue here. And I really mean "really". I don't have any problems at all with my base:

View attachment 23093

For that matter, before I realized the game was broken with regards to underground bases, this is how I built them:

View attachment 23094

So I can see a digger, and fight him.

So I truly don't understand what the issue is.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

So I truly don't understand what the issue is.

Show me one REAL bunker that is build this way.

And to quote myself

But thats the point, if Realistic bases dont work anymore you will see this "Cheese the system" bases much more often...

 

[Jedo]

In a real apocalypse I can think of many things in this game that wouldn't be real. So unless you want the game to be 100% real I can't follow where the parts you want real are good and the others are not.

I don't understand your point. You made the claim "no place should be 100% safe." I asked, "Why not?" and gave a reason why I disagreed with your claim. Your answer is to make a generalizing statement that I must mean that I want everything in the game to be based on (an imagined) reality? Why do you think that is an appropriate response which furthers the discussion?

I still think this is a good question for the underground threat supporters: Why should no place be 100% safe?

(I want the above question answered in its own right, but I also would ask a different but related question: Why shouldn't "surviving" give way to "thriving," i.e., winning the game? No game, not even an open-world sandbox goes on indefinitely.)

 

[Roland]

Normally I try to understand all sides of an argument but on this one I take a strong stance that if development is occurring around the ability for someone to make a huge untouched build then the game is heading in a direction I can no longer support. Thankfully I seriously doubt Pimps are worried about your Death Star build.
You want to make huge epic builds like that, turn the zombies off. That is what creative is for. Taking into account that someone wants to build a huge monstrosity like that and thusly shooting down the idea of advanced enemy threats is not in the best interest of content and longevity. The Pimps have given you a few options. Turn off zombies, or mod the ones you don't like out. It will take you 3 minutes to erase diggers from a spawn list.

But to be against something because it could damage a building? Damaging buildings is the very heart of this game. It is a fully destructible world. This isn't even about limiting someone's play style. This is blatantly saying "I don't want this because it would hinder my ability to make nice things". At some point large builders have to remember this is a game with threats and as such those threats need to be planned for.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but with a few around here more worried about the math behind their huge builds than actually making an interesting and challenging game Im just fine with my unpopular opinion.

The poll indicates it's not an unpopular opinion...

 

[Tilleen]

How is it more efficient if for every block you have to check a 3D cone with hundreds of blocks instead of a single column to bedrock?

Didn't say it was efficient, or practical for implementation. It is just what I would try to achieve, because it is closer to reality, if I was trying to code it. Technically the cone of checking would be optimised, every block would know if it is currently structural, when things changed the checks should be able to be optimised relatively quickly.

 

[graphite]

@RD

You have to sell an idea to the community it gets chewed up for visabilty and the devs decide if it is worthy data to take into consideration.

That is how i see it.

I was asking people to be reasonable to your idea that is all as i guess your going to have responses about minibiomes

 

[Tilleen]

Because of this nearly nobody build near a cliff. And this diggers would make every place to a cliff.The point is that there are a huge group of players who like to build really big. (With zombies in the world)

Look at this picture.

Dark Blue = Crates

Red = SI Pillars

to add a Defense against Diggers would mean instead 4x4 SI Pillars (16) you would need 6x6 Pillars (36).

I hope all that read this understand how much difference this makes. You suddenly would need more than the double amount of work and materials.

And if this would not be enough. Now imagine you will need to Defend 4-10 Storys. Means you spend the whole Horde night by running the Defence Rings of all storys. I cant see there any fun

Is this above ground? If so why worry about diggers, in my plan for them (-)) they would only go underground to they sensed you were there. Maybe sensed forges as well.

 

[dcsobral]

I'm pretty sure many of the proponents of Zombies everywhere, CM up their stuff. So when the radiated cops are destroying their base, are still having their version of fun, as they spent little effort. Good for them, adrenaline rushes are fun too.
BUT, the people that spend weeks building up their base without CM, quickly realize that a fair fight with a "Normal" base no longer exists and so look for alternate ways to keep playing and still have some fun too.

Non-sense. There's no game with creative mode -- I'd think that people who *don't* want zombies everywhere are more likely to be into CM, but, then again, I'm not one of them, so I don't know.

I want zombies everywhere because I don't want to dig a hole and call it a game, nor do I want to forsake simple solutions just because they are broken. I mean, sure, I could never go underground, but:

a) That removes a huge amount of possibilities for bases, and;

b) I don't want to impose artificial limits to my base designs, and I want *zombies* to constraint them.

 

[Tilleen]

or

3. Beta is a myth

That would not be a bad thing.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

@RDYou have to sell an idea to the community it gets chewed up for visabilty and the devs decide if it is worthy data to take into consideration.

That is how i see it.

I was asking people to be reasonable to your idea that is all as i guess your going to have responses about minibiomes

Finally its TFPs decision, thats right.

And i say not that they should not add diggers.

I say Diggers destroy the Game for architect style players and player that want a safe base. And all i ask for is to add it not without a option to disable it. Because people who cant mod would be extreme offended.

That we talk now over 500 Posts long about that topic is caused by the people that mean we should simply deaktivate Zombiespawn, play a other game and Shut up!

 

[graphite]

Didn't say it was efficient, or practical for implementation. It is just what I would try to achieve, because it is closer to reality, if I was trying to code it. Technically the cone of checking would be optimised, every block would know if it is currently structural, when things changed the checks should be able to be optimised relatively quickly.

Psuedocode it into simple rulesets

Sounds interesting calculating SI of an area instead of a single metre squared column.

I am interested how you get each connecting area to sync up.

 

[crazywildfire]

Why, if YOU want a Underground challenge 90% of all Underground is yoursWE have the 10% without this nonsense

So more i need to defend my way to play so less i accept any compromises.

I feel like talking against a wall, and i really tried to find Compromises and explain the problems for my way to play. Nobody cares, so i join this behavior.

Lets talk about removing spikes

Let's talk about it. I don't use them at all so no problem. But this is kinda stupid. It is two totally different things here.

Nobody forced anyone to take advantage of a broken system that one day could be addressed. Seems the days are coming where 8t is being addressed. I could be wrong and happy to be if I am but I'm pretty sure MM himself said long time ago that underground would be addressed one day. Maybe not those words but pretty close to the point. I recall him saying no place should be safe. Nobody is forcing anyone to play anyway. If someone wants safe simple turn off zombies and have at it. When you want to fight turn them back on. From the way you have talked you don't like them anyway so why have them turned on? No not putting words in your mouth. Just saying the way you have talked about it you seem not to care for them. Either way nobody is forcing anyone to pay our way. It is just simply put no place should be safe.

Like others have said the coin could be flipped and we say them same things your thoughts are forcing us to stay above ground. Again pretty stupid to say but just pointing it out.

Underground or above whatever way I build I plan to prepare and defend. In updates I have changed my building style to fit what TFP have placed in front of me. Some ideas a have failed some have not but I have managed through it and will keep doing so. Because everything they have put in front of me has a way to deal with it. Just like if they move forward with this I'm sure it will be pretty balanced it will work out pretty good. Other then the fact of being 100% safe when zombies are turned on.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Is this above ground? If so why worry about diggers, in my plan for them (-)) they would only go underground to they sensed you were there. Maybe sensed forges as well.

Because they cant sense you normally on 30 Blocks deep you can be sure that they would be GPS digger

 

[dcsobral]

Show me one REAL bunker that is build this way.And to quote myself

You mean real as in real world, where there's no such thing as zombies?

Or real as in someone actually built it in game and live in it? Because the top one is my 16.2 base, and the bottom one my 16.0 base.

 

[Aldranon]

Im starting to think you and a few others are forgetting the fact that you are playing a survival game set in the apocalypse. Losing your stuff is about 80 percent of what the game is ABOUT. Instead of pointing out others as not understanding the point because of creative (which by the way I never touch) I think it is important to remember that if you want an undisturbed build GO to creative. You are trying to say people do not appreciate hard earned things if they use creative. There is another side to that coin.
Eliminating or down playing threats to your hard earned things results in your hard earned things not really being hard earned. What did you have to endure to get and keep those things? In the current state of the game it is VERY easy to secure your builds. Do you see what Royal is building? Yeah hard earned because he made it, but what did he actually do to defend it? Dig a hole? What threats is he facing?

Currently I let the Zombies pour down four shafts to bedrock, there I fight up to four battles, trying to kill the radiated cops before they explode.

I few more weeks and they will breach one if the containment cells and death and a game restart will be not far behind. My above ground base is wrecked (had 7 meter thick walls of reinforced concrete.)

I play below ground, not for the safety, but to avoid the trivial annoyances.

I argue for options because some people want a more peaceful game and I always support them.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

@ crazy

I only hate the GPS steered endless 7th day Hordes and i skip them mostly.

Not because i am afraid, because this gameelement is stupid and the opposite of a challenge

So to say "turn off zombies" is one of 2 things

* thought as offense against me, or

* the inability to understand what i say

(or maybe simply missing the 20 times i allready said that)

(not meaned as offense against you)

 

[crazywildfire]

@ crazyI only hate the GPS steered endless 7th day Hordes and i skip them mostly.

Not because i am afraid, because this gameelement is stupid and the opposite of a challenge

So to say "turn off zombies" is one of 2 things

* thought as offense against me, or

* the inability to understand what i say

(or maybe simply missing the 20 times i allready said that)

I get what you have said over and over. Did I say turn them off permanently? You can always turn them off on horde night. Then simply turn back on. Also never said you was afraid not once. Again understand what you are saying. But again still goes back to no place should be safe.

We agree on one thing out of this topic it comes down to TFP. So I will just wait to see what they end up doing and trust in it. I have said what I needed to say on the topic so to keep from repeating over and over I will move on to another topic and have nothing more to add to this one.