PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jackelmyer]

I don't know what can and will help to change attitudes, confusion and suspicion of mods, of the changing of a game so that things are added or taken out is not a horrible thing and you shouldn't play on a modded game.

Generally speaking I don't think anyone has a problem with mods themselves. With the exception that some, like myself, often go without mods mostly due to maintenance and bugs mods can introduce.

But on average, people play with what they bought as is. If that doesn't play well, no mods going to keep them, as the player will be long gone before getting to modding, and possibly after leaving a bad review. Ultimately hurting sales and there by the continued development of a great game.

Happens all the time. No game or product for that matter is immune.

So great core game first. Mods as an answer last.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

As for mods, I'd say that there should only be one list for servers to not "ban the modded servers to second page" and there should be a lot more space to describe the server, even including a working link to a website... and the link ability will likely get taken out as soon as purveyors of malware discover this avenue.
Right now it's just hit and miss and the split is meaningless.

How about allowing only links to 2 Websites

* A/The TFP Forum

* Steam Forum

This way player have a way to find contact data and a way do write posts if there is no other contact given

and additional a Right click on server infopage what is a Simple Text File or HTML Page with maximal so many letters that it fits into one page for a fast viewover, maybe with a prepared Header

For point 3 we need a own diskussion, i think a way to sign mods like egosoft done it for their x merchandise would be a really nice thing.

This way modders would be able to request a sign. And then a Group of Player/Modders/Moderators/TFP Staff could check the mods for some attributes and Kategorize them

As example:

* How strong the mod change the world

* How original feel the Gameplay

* Difficulty of the mod

* Overall quality (Are there Items without Icons and equal stuff)

Sounds on the first sight as it would need to much work. But i really thik its doable if we get the Modders together on this boat.

 

[Tilleen]

From days ago, but I have been away. :-/

I don't have a problem with digging zombies, as long as the they only do it for a reason, ie, the hear sense you undergound (special power), and other wise will tend to try to get too the surface. Another idea is that since zombies don't pick up the dirt is could pile up behind them thus filling in the hole they have dug. I don't know if that would work correctly as a game mechanic, but it may reduce the SI issues. I would not expect them to place stone behind them if they are digging in it, maybe dirt, and maybe dirt gets replaced with sand, or nothing.

 

[rngchiefbob]

MM video please soon this topic has went everywhere lol and you promised more soon

 

[DaVegaNL]

Everyone and their mom seems to be discussing SI.. Which should not be the focus of TFP for now if you ask me.

On the other hand; when will we be seeing some actual content? I mean, a drawn picture of a bathtub is nice and all.. But rather lacking.

 

[beerfly]

A video and new content will be shown when ready. This is not a request thread. I can`t wait too, but I know its hard and long work. Cheers.

 

[7daysguy]

As for mods, I'd say that there should only be one list for servers to not "ban the modded servers to second page" and there should be a lot more space to describe the server, even including a working link to a website... and the link ability will likely get taken out as soon as purveyors of malware discover this avenue.
Right now it's just hit and miss and the split is meaningless.

We accidentally went to the modded category for a day, half the players could not find the server until the next day. Most new players are not even aware of the second page, they just see a list and click on something. Yes being modded is really a punishment right now.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I dunno. I think I may be on 7daysguy side on this one.
Basic game settings are offered in the vanilla game. As such, their a part of the vanilla experience. Developers put those settings in so players could change the default vanilla experience.

Mods, typically and traditionally, change game mechanics and/or content outside what you can do via game settings. Hence, truly modifying the game itself.

The server browser and start up categorization I think is something that TFP probably wants to enhance anyway. Ideally, a standard game tab with filters and showing the game setting tweaks a server did. With some search capability on game settings. Then a Modded tab that is for genuinely modded games. Custom blocks.xml, items.xml, etc. Custom DLL's.

But generally, in later game designs, whatever game loads customizations from a mods folder goes into a Mods tab would possibly be a common standard.

I'd like to see TFP, break out the blocks, items, and so on files so mods can host their own versions of these files that add to the content provided by the core game. With an option in a modders file set to denote a vanilla Item ID as removed from the game or extend an item or block of vanilla.

So no more modding vanilla xml files. You simply build your own with custom content with the same xml files or tweaks to vanilla IDs. Vanilla loads first, mods load last, first come first serve in load sequence. And wallah. Whatever is loading content from the this "Mods" folder becomes a modded game.

An ability to hook in custom DLL's would be awesome too as part of it.

Long story short... Mods as we know them today may be completely non functional compared to what and how things are modded in the future.

But game settings denoting mod status? Vanilla game settings? Meh.

Wait, are you saying that if you change a setting that normally is in the drop down menu as their own preset it goes to modded?

I was only speaking on if you alter an xml or say change stacknumbers. That's modding. But changing Loot respawn to a a preset from the Pimps own drop down menu is considered modded?

If so I am sorry but this is incredibly stupid. Like entry level stupid. Im totally on your side then. ANYTHING I can select as a preset should NEVER be in modded.

 

[Gazz]

How about allowing only links to 2 Websites* A/The TFP Forum

* Steam Forum

That's not a bad idea. These forums have spam filters in place and people are aware (or should be =) of the risks of clicking some link in a forum

For point 3 we need a own diskussion, i think a way to sign mods like egosoft done it for their x merchandise would be a really nice thing.This way modders would be able to request a sign. And then a Group of Player/Modders/Moderators/TFP Staff could check the mods for some attributes and Kategorize them

As example:

* How strong the mod change the world

* How original feel the Gameplay

* Difficulty of the mod

* Overall quality (Are there Items without Icons and equal stuff)

Sounds on the first sight as it would need to much work. But i really thik its doable if we get the Modders together on this boat.

Whoa there, cowboy!

Even "just" the layout of Egosoft's mod list would take quite some effort on the side of the moderators - and the modders who submit the entries correctly.

(I know. I was an S&M moderator on that site...)

That "staff" starts playing every mod long enough to give it a reasonable rating is out of the question. Not happening.

With Egosoft it was common to pick the S&M Moderators out of the modding community for the simply reason that

- they are dedicated to modding

- they have a clue about modding so might actually be able to answer relevant questions.

Wait, are you saying that if you change a setting that normally is in the drop down menu as their own preset it goes to modded?

I'm saying the entire dual system and what determines a "modded" server needs a serious overhaul.

Right now it's all kinds of backwards with the most heavily modded servers (SDX mods and server managers) being "vanilla" and if you change the stacknumber of bandages it becomes "modded".

That system has... accumulated. It wasn't designed like that.

A well readable list of WHAT is changed on a server would be far more useful than a binary modded yes/no - especially since the game can not tell if a server is modded or not - that already is a voluntary label... and most players are certainly not aware of that fact.

 

[Menace312]

Wait, are you saying that if you change a setting that normally is in the drop down menu as their own preset it goes to modded?
I was only speaking on if you alter an xml or say change stacknumbers. That's modding. But changing Loot respawn to a a preset from the Pimps own drop down menu is considered modded?

If so I am sorry but this is incredibly stupid. Like entry level stupid. Im totally on your side then. ANYTHING I can select as a preset should NEVER be in modded.

But it is... I believe setting the hour length to 60min no longer puts you in the modded category as of A16.

In past alphas this would push you to the modded category.

Do people really prefer to play on the non modded servers???

I never even look at the vanilla game list... Too boring...

I would, however, like to get some more info on what exactly has been tampered with in the server description.

Just simple stuff, like what xml files are changed and so on...

 

[wolfbain5]

Oh please! where is that a challenge ?

Yes it makes it harder to skip Hordedays.

Only thing you archive is that baserock dwellers leave their screwed ex safe bases and spend the Hordenight on top of such a Zombie Slicer

and this is not harder, its easyer.

One of the reasons i hate the 7th day hordes so much is because they are more a Loot delivery service" as a threat.

how the hell are you supporting such mass?

 

[Menace312]

how the hell are you supporting such mass?

A good way is to place a concrete plate on the floor.

Then place another concrete plate on top of this, but 180 degrees rotated.

This will give you nearly 2 blocks of space, while SI is still good.

A little bit af a cheat i think... But its possible in vanilla out of the box, sooo....

 

[SittingDuck]

Maybe in the "Subways, Sewers & Skyscapers" DLC @$9.95, they will increase the SI of reinforced concrete to a realistic level. Reinforced concrete was designed to give concrete a torsion strength to complement its amazing compression strength. Americans recently have made a concrete (HPC + UHPC) that is UNBELIVABLY strong, so if MM said 7D2D is near future then using 10 meters of that stuff will hold up anything within the games scope.
No need for magic, unless American ingenuity is magic.

You know that concret of this kind is realy hightech and not buildable with a Stoneforge and a shabby concret mixer? We are more in Roman times with steel... speaking of steel... also hightech... it took about 2000 years to get from concrete to reinforced concrete... writing this i think the charakter progression is way too fast ^^

 

[stallionsden]

how the hell are you supporting such mass?

Nope you can layer 1 iron bar laying down outwards x 3 which holds you. We have it on our base and many others use it. Ours is about 10 blocks up. Nothing to do with the plate under. Also the plate under would be considered a whole block by the z in which it would destroy that block anyway

- - - Updated - - -

how the hell are you supporting such mass?

Its also only 1 block out even the lowest si would hold.

- - - Updated - - -

You know that concret of this kind is realy hightech and not buildable with a Stoneforge and a shabby concret mixer? We are more in Roman times with steel... speaking of steel... also hightech... it took about 2000 years to get from concrete to reinforced concrete... writing this i think the charakter progression is way too fast ^^

Well actually the game is set in 2038+ as stated by MM we should be at the awesome concrete by now

 

[Prisma501]

But it is... I believe setting the hour length to 60min no longer puts you in the modded category as of A16.In past alphas this would push you to the modded category.

Do people really prefer to play on the non modded servers???

I never even look at the vanilla game list... Too boring...

I would, however, like to get some more info on what exactly has been tampered with in the server description.

Just simple stuff, like what xml files are changed and so on...

Nuance: they changed the default daylength from 50 to 60. So changing 60 in any way will get you modded again.

Cheers

 

[meganoth]

Lol yes anyone knows that but then watch the sales drop. Watch players leave the game. Watch potential customers (whom also might buy the next game a developer brings out) plummet.

I'm just critizising your claims where you use words like "impossible" to mean something else entirely. You say "It is impossible to make zombies invincible" while you really meant to say "zombies shouldn't be made invincible by the developers if they want to sell the game".

World war z. The human race neutralised the zs did you not watch it lol. Never heard of dead snow but considering your first movie analogy was false I am gonna say this 1 is to lol.

I thought you were refering to the hidden subtext in many zombie movies that the humans are the bigger threat, for example in any John Romero movie or in "The Walking Dead". If you simply meant movies where the zombies are erradicated or there is a happy end, then yes, WWZ is a bad example, probably Dead Snow too, because it has a sort of happy end (which is turned into an unhappy end in Dead Snow 2). John Romero movies, "Dawn of the Dead" for example, or "Rec" don't have an happy end though.

So your saying players are dumb lol. I quite disagree. A developer puts a threat in for the player to deal with. How the player deals with the threat is purely the smarts of the player. The devs may add stuff that can assist in dealing with a threat.

I say players are given the means to overcome the threat. It is not left to the "ingenuity" of the players, it is carefully calculated by a game designer. Sure, there is lots of ingenuity involved when some tenacious players find loop holes to beat the game in ways the developers didn't intent too. But that is relatively irrelevant to the great mass of players who simply "eat the carrots" aka use the tools the designers of a game put in front of them so they "heroically" save the day (as intended by the developers).

 

[spud42]

Damn... none of the Abyss Class Battleships (WH40(30)K) are in the mix Ok I will take the Lexx then even if it looks like a dragonfly and its insides are kinda 'funky'...

only if Zev is on the ship...... ) (original by preference)

there are a lot of ships missing . my choices ,not in order would be the Eagle from space 1999, the Liberator from Blakes 7, the Serenity from firefly.... too many.to narrow down..lol

 

[Jackelmyer]

Morning fellow freaks. What are we redesigning today?

And Madmole is still alive right? His beard did rise up against him or anything did it?

 

[meganoth]

(about modded servers)

and the link ability will likely get taken out as soon as purveyors of malware discover this avenue.

Exactly. For security reasons but also because players don't like to wait for hundreds of web pages to load and those be shown in a different window.

Instead a simple text description should be shown as hover text or as addtional text below a server entry when you select the server on the list.

 

[Aldranon]

You know that concret of this kind is realy hightech and not buildable with a Stoneforge and a shabby concret mixer? We are more in Roman times with steel... speaking of steel... also hightech... it took about 2000 years to get from concrete to reinforced concrete... writing this i think the charakter progression is way too fast ^^

The Romans made a special type of concrete using volcanic ash that could set up underwater and to this day some roman structures using that concrete are still around! It took us a long time to re-figure out how they did it.