PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[stallionsden]

Madmole has also said the zombies are and always will be the main antagonists. So I think it's the most sensible choice for zombies to be part of the answer. You don't want them to dig and leave tunnels, dig and not leave tunnels, or spawn up close to your base, which would seem to be the only options to get zombies to your underground base. So we're at an impasse - we simply want different things.


While movies can inspire gameplay, there are also differences. Movies have an ending, and this game does not, at least for now. The survivor(s) winning the game in a few hours like in a movie would be one play style, but not the only one. Consider Royal Deluxe's play style: he mentioned he plays 'dead is dead'. I'm sure he finds it every bit as thrilling and compelling as someone role playing that they're the main character in a zombie movie.

The players will come up with a way to counter everything the game can throw at them! Well, no, that's not the case for every game. It's possible to design a game where the player can't counter everything, and you don't have to brutalize the player with ridiculous rules to do it, either: I refer you again to rock-paper-scissors. Too simple? Okay then, chess against Deep Blue.

Me, I derive more satisfaction from winning through sheer effort than by finding a way around the challenge the designer intended for me. Sure, I feel clever coming up with the latter the first time, but after that the victory feels hollow. I've discovered how the game is broken, and now I can't put that genie back in the bottle. That's my "back to not being challenged again" moment: I can only have a balanced, challenging game after that by hamstringing myself, pretending the game isn't the way it is.

A game would be again useless and not popular also killing future sales of future games as stated before.

A developer isn't going to make a game that won't sell. Sure you might buy it. But a game that has a unbeatable threat is a waste of both the players money and the developers time. And they will not survive in the game industry.

Your reply will be. It's got nothing to do with the sales. Your wrong. A game developer isn't going to make a game that won't sell. They won't make a game that will kill their chances of being successful nor being able to make more. Yes they make games that they think will be liked and loved by the community. But in the end it comes down to sales. Making money and giving the community a great game that will be so old and give then a large chance of being able to continue to make games.

In the end TFPs decision and I don't really care if they put a digging z in. I can always mod it out anyways. Which is the beauty of this game. But your gonna get people coomplaining bout magically spawning Zs after its put it lol.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Look at how many copies have been sold and look a the numbers of forum members, a huge, huge, huge difference. And I would make a bet that if you did get the majority to come here and vote, you would receive the shock of your life and find out that many would NOT want the diggers, in fact that many think the game is too hard in some areas. Not all, but enough to make a difference. There are many who are weekend players, have jobs, families, commitments who get to play only a few hours a week, not days and hours at a time. Some are casual and may even only play for a couple of hours a week. There are some who love the game not for the zombie survival aspect but because of how they can build in ways they can't in other games. Some play in creative, some just have zombies off, some mod it so they can in what they want and take out what they don't. But the majority will not want it so that players are kept from living underground.

Ill agree with this. All I ask is that the CODING for the diggers be put in at least so then I can mod it in. As for what actually makes vanilla, I'm ok with whatever they do to be honest. I'm just NOT ok with the REMOVAL of the ability to do things, as I am sure people like Guppy will agree with me on that. Do what you want in vanilla, just stop limiting us on the modding end side of it so those of us who can add things like diggers or, god forbid, city spawning zombies can still do so if we choose.

For example, sleepers are fine, but the removal of the ability to add in wilderness spawns to the point it used to be kind of sucks. I can see disabling that bit of code in Vanilla for the regular folk, but why remove it completely, even from modders. Keeping the code there doesn't harm anyone. Removing it stifles creativity.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

check this out

ok I know I can edit the crap out of everything but making those changes force your server to the modded list and that really reduces the players over time.

I wish TFP would reduce the server dashboard so it is not so cut and dry.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

ok I know I can edit the crap out of everything but making those changes force your server to the modded list and that really reduces the players over time.
I wish TFP would reduce the server dashboard so it is not so cut and dry.

Are you sure that the Visitmap move your server on the modded list ?

If this is so it is strange, or at least not expected by me

 

[JaxTeller718]

ok I know I can edit the crap out of everything but making those changes force your server to the modded list and that really reduces the players over time.
I wish TFP would reduce the server dashboard so it is not so cut and dry.

Adding some kind of brief overview of what kind of changes would be a great idea too so people know that a modded server may ONLY have changed say weather temps. Painting broad strokes by JUST saying "Modded" can be aturn off I am sure.

 

[stallionsden]

Stable, i guess

Lmao what the. Can you export that for me to see for myself lol. Please... that's ingenious if I think it is what it is

 

[JaxTeller718]

A game would be again useless and not popular also killing future sales of future games as stated before.
A developer isn't going to make a game that won't sell. Sure you might buy it. But a game that has a unbeatable threat is a waste of both the players money and the developers time. And they will not survive in the game industry.

Your reply will be. It's got nothing to do with the sales. Your wrong. A game developer isn't going to make a game that won't sell. They won't make a game that will kill their chances of being successful nor being able to make more. Yes they make games that they think will be liked and loved by the community. But in the end it comes down to sales. Making money and giving the community a great game that will be so old and give then a large chance of being able to continue to make games.

In the end TFPs decision and I don't really care if they put a digging z in. I can always mod it out anyways. Which is the beauty of this game. But your gonna get people coomplaining bout magically spawning Zs after its put it lol.

Yeah but this is why we get more Kardashian and Teen Mom shows and less Hannibal and Firefly. What you say may be true, but catering to the common denominator is what is killing the game industry and the entertainment industry. There is nothing wrong with being unique as long as you are excelling at being unique. Otherwise all we get are PUBG clones for the rest of time.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Lmao what the. Can you export that for me to see for myself lol. Please... that's ingenious if I think it is what it is

Sadly this was ingame on a wiped server.

I will add a comparable flying saucer in my mod dependent Poi set, but this still needs a few weeks

* [Wip] my Poi Prefabs

leads to

* My Mod

leads to

* small additional Poi Prefab Set that need Blocks from my Mod, inclusive the Blocks that hold the Flying Saucer

 

[unholyjoe]

ok I know I can edit the crap out of everything but making those changes force your server to the modded list and that really reduces the players over time.
I wish TFP would reduce the server dashboard so it is not so cut and dry.

can i please ask and no one get offended. Why do people really hate for their servers to show as modded... to me that seems to be the fair thing for both the player who wants to play on modded servers and for example me----- i dont play on other servers except testers servers when needed... but if i was looking for a server and looking in the server info a server doesnt show mods and i join it because its my preference and i find it has been modified... i expect to see that info from the get go.

please... i do not see a server that is modded as a bad thing and i think it should help get people who want to play a modded server more interested and not the reverse. dont base this off of me because i dont play mp on servers not rented or owned by me... its the way i am and counter strike and kids made me that way.

but i hold nothing against mods... i just dont use them unless..... get ready.... unless it affect graphics by giving me better graphics and not blurry crap.

i hope this didnt come off wrong (it is by no means suppose to) .. i just dont see why people see the servers as a bad thing because its in the modded category. : <puts steel pot back on head>

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Modded Servers get less players (at least many admins claim that)

Looks like many players understand under modded allways big mods that have not much left from vanilla

And there i can speak only for myself. I am carefull too, because there is no oversight what is modded and i dont like these big mods that left nearly nothing from the Vanilla Gameplay, or the "wannabe" Mods from some Admins that have Gamebreaking edits.

What we really could need would be a LARGE link to a webpage from the Server (for rules and Discussion, Contact Admins (maybe only a Thread on steam)) and a own Textfile you can read ingame where you can get a short overview about mods and Serverrules

 

[stallionsden]

Yeah but this is why we get more Kardashian and Teen Mom shows and less Hannibal and Firefly. What you say may be true, but catering to the common denominator is what is killing the game industry and the entertainment industry. There is nothing wrong with being unique as long as you are excelling at being unique. Otherwise all we get are PUBG clones for the rest of time.

Thos are your 2 fav shows tho isnt it lol hehe. I nnot talking bout the challenge thhat is an important part of this game for sure and can always be made more challenging. But yeh anyways said my piece.. pieces. Lots lol hopefully something that is going to be in the game gets talked bout next lol

 

[unholyjoe]

Modded Servers get less players (at least many admins claim that)
Looks like many players understand under modded allways big mods that have not much left from vanilla

And there i can speak only for myself. I am carefull too, because the is no oversight what is modded and i dont like these big mods that left nearly nothing from the Vanilla Gameplay, or the "wannabe" Mods from some Admins that have Gamebreaking edits.

whereas i see a server in modded as being something changed and the choice would be mine to join it or not... i mean even changing the time or difficulty mode should still show as modded because it is modded yet i see people very upset about it and want tfp to change it so it doesnt show as modded... if i hop onto a server that has been changed to 120 minute days but cant see its modded til i get in, then i see it as false advertisement or plain deceitful.

but thats just me i guess. it takes all kinds to make the world as it is. thanks for your insight RD.

 

[graphite]

I have to agree that developers will set a difficulty and that balance will tip toward the player once most have read a guide or watched a video on tips and tricks.

Not sure if everyone was isolated from that they would work out how to circumvent and create tactical measures at an even rate or to a general effective level.

I think it is right that developers will give the player a chance as its what they like to do, create a game that is rewarding to play.

Setting the balance so the scales keep tipping from enemy AI to player is key to a good development team.

You can make a great game and then make it balanced without that balance sesaw and weight towards the player and the player will play it until they beat it a few times and say great game but i have overplayed it.

If the game keeps beating you now and again then it makes you want to try again.

Has anyone investigated about tic tac toe (naughts and crosses) when you program an opponent ai, look it up if you are interested and have time.

Making the frequency of this scale tip towards enemy AI high but not so it feels unbeatable is difficult and the game in fairly open development in early access will show its teeth.

Obviously getting the pathing and descison making of AI in an openworld where players can change every block is challenging but i believe it can be done.

I am not sure what is going to happen when the ruleset opens up regarding bandits as they have more intel and can do lots of devastating actions without the need of magic.

What does not get excepted for zombie to do within there descsion making capacity can be moved to the bandits or other events in the world so i dont think the diffculty will get any lower it just will shift between these.

Every build will change the shift so i believe its going to get choppy on balancing the closer it gets to beta before it starts smoothing out.

This is just my personal opion so dont take anything the wrong way it is just how i see it.

 

[unholyjoe]

Spoiler

I have to agree that developers will set a difficulty and that balance will tip toward the player once most have read a guide or watched a video on tips and tricks.

Not sure if everyone was isolated from that they would work out how to circumvent and create tactical measures at an even rate or to a general effective level.

I think it is right that developers will give the player a chance as its what they like to do, create a game that is rewarding to play.

Setting the balance so the scales keep tipping from enemy AI to player is key to a good development team.

You can make a great game and then make it balanced without that balance sesaw and weight towards the player and the player will play it until they beat it a few times and say great game but i have overplayed it.

If the game keeps beating you now and again then it makes you want to try again.

Has anyone investigated about tic tac toe (naughts and crosses) when you program an opponent ai, look it up if you are interested and have time.

Making the frequency of this scale tip towards enemy AI high but not so it feels unbeatable is difficult and the game in fairly open development in early access will show its teeth.

Obviously getting the pathing and descison making of AI in an openworld where players can change every block is challenging but i believe it can be done.

I am not sure what is going to happen when the ruleset opens up regarding bandits as they have more intel and can do lots of devastating actions without the need of magic.

What does not get excepted for zombie to do within there descsion making capacity can be moved to the bandits or other events in the world so i dont think the diffculty will get any lower it just will shift between these.

Every build will change the shift so i believe its going to get choppy on balancing the closer it gets to beta before it starts smoothing out.

This is just my personal opion so dont take anything the wrong way it is just how i see it.

i agree with all you said there, and each time the pimps team changes something, that is exactly what happens... it keeps teetering and tottering and should not be looked at as tho the pimps messed up when they didnt... changes will happen and i dont always agree neither but the game has to appeal to the majority and not an individual.

another aspect i would love to see changed is randomness (yeah i know that can only be so limited... random is not an undifined choice but an human made algorithm to follow), but random blood moon horde and not on every 7 days.... random air drops.... seriously the wondering horde is so to speak random so other events should be made random also.

of course that needs to be an option because not everyone wants that either.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Modded Servers get less players (at least many admins claim that)
Looks like many players understand under modded allways big mods that have not much left from vanilla

And there i can speak only for myself. I am carefull too, because there is no oversight what is modded and i dont like these big mods that left nearly nothing from the Vanilla Gameplay, or the "wannabe" Mods from some Admins that have Gamebreaking edits.

What we really could need would be a LARGE link to a webpage from the Server (for rules and Discussion, Contact Admins (maybe only a Thread on steam)) and a own Textfile you can read ingame where you can get a short overview about mods and Serverrules

I totally agree. We need a way for people to be able to see what is modded. A link that opens a mini browser we admins can update is perfect.

I don't know of any admins that complain about modded servers getting less players. If they do then that's not on the Pimps but the player to educate themselves and STOP being afraid of anything modded. I don't see anything Pimps can do to change that mindset. People are gonna bias no matter what.

But I would LOVE a way for the listing to show with a click what mods are installed.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I don't think people here understand common user behavior. SDX team seems to be in the right track but still.

Modded server main reasons they're played less is:

#1 - Laziness/Interest (effectively the same here)

#2 - Intimidation

Generally, people buy things, especially things they don't understand and don't want to, and expect them to just work. Most people don't have the energy or interest to go figure out how to install a mod much less troubleshoot installation problems.

When it comes to complex processes, especially via computing, people get intimidated by complexity. Even today, with the millennial generation. Tech everywhere. Computers everywhere. And the vast majority aren't any better at using a PC than Paul, the guy who never gave up the mullet he grew in the 70's.

So modded will always get less play. Which is why ultimately, Mods need to install as seamlessly as any DLC. To get any substantial traction.

So no. Mods aren't going to keep this game flying off the shelf any time soon. Vanilla keeps it flying off the shelf. Mods maintain and prolong the web based hype.

Vanilla = Direct Sales and sales maintenance

Mods = Good advertising investments and longevity of web presence.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I don't think people here understand common user behavior. SDX team seems to be in the right track but still.
Modded server main reasons they're played less is:

#1 - Laziness/Interest (effectively the same here)

#2 - Intimidation

Generally, people buy things, especially things they don't understand and don't want to, and expect them to just work. Most people don't have the energy or interest to go figure out how to install a mod much less troubleshoot installation problems.

When it comes to complex processes, especially via computing, people get intimidated by complexity. Even today, with the millennial generation. Tech everywhere. Computers everywhere. And the vast majority aren't any better at using a PC than Paul, the guy who never gave up the mullet he grew in the 70's.

So modded will always get less play. Which is why ultimately, Mods need to install as seamlessly as any DLC. To get any substantial traction.

So no. Mods aren't going to keep this game flying off the shelf any time soon. Vanilla keeps it flying off the shelf. Mods maintain and prolong the web based hype.

Vanilla = Direct Sales and sales maintenance

Mods = Good advertising investments and longevity of web presence.

I don't think anyone said mods WOULD keep the game flying off the shelf. Merely that there needs to be a way for people to view which mods are on a server so they know if they are getting into just a backpack mod or an entire overhaul.

Sphereiis Launcher goes a LONG way in helping with that very thing though. Makes using multiple mods a piece of cake.

 

[bgriffin1217]

I would like to see some bear traps added in as a trap option. A nice addition to go with spikes and barb wire. The recipe could be forged iron or steel, and springs

 

[Jackelmyer]

I don't think anyone said mods WOULD keep the game flying off the shelf. Merely that there needs to be a way for people to view which mods are on a server so they know if they are getting into just a backpack mod or an entire overhaul.
Sphereiis Launcher goes a LONG way in helping with that very thing though. Makes using multiple mods a piece of cake.

I thought Sphereiis was a part of the whole SDX team/group. But yeah. That's what I was referring to.

And yeah there does need to be a way to see the mods used. From what I've seen from TFP, full mod support isn't fully implemented. So support for mods is probably still on the way.

 

[Doombringer101]

Next 3 Hours everybody stop posting and look for his perfect Ship ^^Btw i would take the Stargate

USS George Hammond/Phِnix (no idea if it is inside the chart(Edit: its not with only around 200 meters lenght))

Its the newest earth ship from SG Universe

Or the Voyager with the engine from the Phِnix

Damn... none of the Abyss Class Battleships (WH40(30)K) are in the mix

Ok I will take the Lexx then even if it looks like a dragonfly and its insides are kinda 'funky'...