AtomicUs5000
New member
He messed up 6 more times?
lol... just kidding. That's great to hear.
PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
- Thread starter Roland
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lol... just kidding. That's great to hear.
HerrKingsley
New member
Oh a18 under cover.
khzmusik
Well-known member
Including Roland it seems. Not trying to re-open a can of worms, but if you want the background, here you go.
This sarcastic response likely comes from another thread about A17.2E RWG, titled "just when you thought it couldn't get any worse..."
In that thread, Roland said (or admitted) that A17.2 experimental was deliberately released with RWG so broken, that you (TFP) asked your own internal QA team not to bother testing it. So it wasn't even close to being ready for testing publicly.
His defense of that move was that it didn't have to be ready for testing publicly, because experimental releases are not public releases. So don't complain, and if you can't handle it, go back to stable. That response didn't sit well with a lot of folks (including, especially, me).
But, on to the positives: From Mad Mole's Twitter updates, it looks like the work Kin is doing will make RWG better than it's ever been. Hopefully it is ready in time for an A17 release.
Also, now that I finally stole a seed that produces a playable RWG world, I have been doing a lot of trader quests. I never realized how effective they are at getting players to explore, which is especially great in (working) RWG worlds.
Encouraging player exploration is definitely a good thing, especially in a game like 7D2D where sooner or later you have to dig in and build a horde base (which encourages staying put). It was something that I thought was lacking in A16, and this is a great improvement.
khzmusik
Well-known member
That's fine if it's the stated purpose of an experimental release. It is not. In fataal's own words, "The point of experimental is to test things publicly."
It's both TFP's own goal, and perhaps more importantly, it's an expectation of the community. (Not an unreasonable one either.) So, if you're releasing something that can't even be tested publicly, you're working against both your own goals and against community expectations.
Sometimes you have to do this - and in the case of RWG, I'm pretty positive TFP had little choice but to do it. That's fine - but the proper response is to acknowledge it, explain that you're working on it, and ask for patience while it's being worked on. Not to deny it was ever released to the public, then to tell people to shut up and stop whining.
...and now, finally, I will shut up and stop whining.
On a different subject: With my new playthrough, I've been trying a "nomadic" style, where you don't form a base, and move from POI to POI to spend the night. It's a good match with doing trader quests, or with any play style where exploration is encouraged.
I'm also playing a "high-risk death" style. Not dead is dead, but no bedrolls, and you lose everything on death. I like this, as it doesn't require you to completely create a new map when you die (problematic when there are only a dozen viable RWG seeds), but it still makes death something to be legitimately feared.
It's pretty fun, but there is one issue that makes it less so. You are discouraged from nighttime activities where you are at risk of being killed, so you have to find things to do while you sit in some reasonably protected area.
Without a stable base (and the forging, mining, etc. that you can do there), there just isn't enough to do. Cooking food, spending skill points, or organizing your pack just doesn't take up enough time, and you spend a huge amount of the night just sitting there.
Obviously I'm not required to play this way, but it seems like there might be a way for TFP to account for this play style, and give us something to do in situations like these.
I don't have a specific answer though. Maybe the suggestion that you have to take time to read books would be good for this? A way to sleep through the night - recovering health, fighting infection, etc. - would be nice, but TFP have stated they're not interested in adding this. (And they have good reasons.)
Anyone else in the same boat? Have any thoughts or suggestions? If nobody else finds this a problem, then maybe I just need to alter my play style.
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
Sleeping through the night is problematic in a MP environment to say the least.
I'm not sure if this will work but it might be worth a shot...
Mod a bedroll to have an inventory. When the inventory is open the bedroll provides incremental <whatever> buffs to the player, healing and a stamina buff are the obvious ones. Have the buffs stack over time to a certain limit and you essentially have a bedroll that provides you with a good night's sleep in game while you go and make a cup of coffee.
You could probably use Area Of Effect buffs within a block or two of the bedroll but that means that anybody could use it, the inventory version could most likely be locked for a single player.
Not the best solution but if you're getting buffs from resting it should feel less like the time is wasted.
Anthonydevidal
New member
My favorite zombie is the survivor who had a backpack and always appeared running and when you killed him released a juicy booty of war, I have not yet seen one in this alpha 17 ...
What was missing I loved seeing it and hunting it.
I have had bad luck or have disappeared in alpha 17?
please bring it back
What was missing I loved seeing it and hunting it.
I have had bad luck or have disappeared in alpha 17?
please bring it back
1) They might put out a game with an RWG that is known broken to test the REST of the game. Whether that was communicated well, don't know.
2) If you reopen a days or weeks old discussion or dispute again (which I would also advise not to do), please quote the offending person or link to his post instead of rephrasing what he said. The rest of us can't judge if he is wrong or you interpret him wrongly. Most arguments start from misunderstandings. I know because I fall into that trap often enough.
Ideas:
1) One forum poster said that with points in stealth night time questing is in some ways easier than at daylight because zombies don't see you at night and don't wake up as easy when you shoot other zombies in the room. Probably your top priority should be to look for night vision googles if you want to do this.
2) Don't bother to loot a house you intend to stay in the night, just clear it of zombies. In the night loot and scrap anything valuable in the house. Wrench the kitchen, lamps, beds. Cut the curtains. You might even cut wooden walls to save on tree cutting in the day. Anything that doesn't look like a stone walls really has some limited benefit.
3) (If you don't mind revisiting places you already have been you could set up bases all over the map and and on revisits start mining, use stationary forges with ores stored from previous visits. Ok, not really 100% nomadic, but maybe unavoidable on a limited map at the moment.)
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The Gronk
Colon Pounder
I'd like to see each block given a porosity and water level, kind of a primitive compound block system.
Simply overlay water onto whatever block is there. If it's porous then water can pass through it otherwise the water is contained. You should be able to have underwater objects such as workbenches or zombie corpses without having to re-mesh every block in the game.
khzmusik
Well-known member
Yeah, I do remember that reason for not adding sleep to the game. I think there are others. They are good reasons and I fully understand why sleeping isn't implemented.
Starvation mod had a similar mechanic, where if you were on top of a bedroll, you got increased health and stamina recovery. It also had a "tired" mechanic so you were required to do this occasionally.
It was not a bad idea, but it did lead to kind of the same issue, which is that you have to sit there with your character doing nothing while you get a cup of coffee. Buffs or not, it's not particularly fun gameplay.
I also don't know how that mechanic worked in MP, so maybe it had that same issue, where other players could also benefit from it. IMHO that is less of an issue than the fact that you're sitting there.
1) That is not a bad idea. It certainly would not be boring. There are a lot of higher priority perks that I want to spend skill points on right now, but maybe after those are at a decent level, I'll try it. (Still reluctant to go out, stealth or not, but maybe that's part of the fun.)
2) This is also not a bad idea, and if I were not "cheating" and occasionally staying at the same place, it's probably the best solution here. So maybe in reality this is my fault for cheating. (In my defense I do this usually when it's too late to clear a POI, and the "high-risk death" style encourages that behavior.)
3) Well I'm already "cheating" (see above), so maybe I have to embrace the fact that I'm not actually "nomadic" and do exactly that. (I did exactly that in an earlier A16/WotW playthrough.)
All good ideas, and thanks.
Is there anyone here that ENJOYS randomgen more than previous versions? The terrain is more natural, there are mountains, burned out sections of towns (though I still question how things can be on fire 150 years later), and the graphics are simply amazing. The only thing IMO they need to fix is roads and transitions into other biomes and RWG would be perfect. The only 'wishlist' I'd have for RWG is:
1) True interstate highways, complete with busted up cars where people tried to leave populated areas
2) When generating the world, take full advantage of all cores available to speed up world generation (I haven't tried it, I simply create many threads instead, but https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1542213/how-to-find-the-number-of-cpu-cores-via-net-c seems to have the answer)
3) More water. streams, rivers, ponds, lakes. Water wouldn't disappear due to the apocalypse. If anything water towers would dry up and you'd have to rely on natural resources for water.
A thought for you that don't like Alpha 17:
1) Turn down tree detail and lower the view distance to medium. The game runs fine in 1080p, 1440p, and even 4k on my system (though 4k gets down into the upper 30s/lower 40s FPS wise for me).
2) Stop comparing it to Alpha 16, it's not Alpha 16, it's an entirely new game.
3) The game already looks better than some AAA games I've played, and while I hope TFP focuses on optimizations, I also hope they don't do so at the expense of graphics quality. The game runs AMAZINGLY well on Linux under Steam/Proton, much better than Windows, so at least part of the problem is Microsoft.
To the TFP: Make sure you max out the graphical and core usage for the game. Get a Threadripper 1950x or 2950x and make sure it scales. The one thing I noticed is that it does not appear to take full advantage of the CPU or the GPU, so there is likely an engine bottleneck. Don't be afraid to write some shaders to assist with AI or something.
EDIT: Oh and to help with XP gain, give each town a name and give the player a small amount of XP for discovering it. Similarly, give each house a backstory, and have a journal or something that describes what happen. Let the player read through it and also give the player a small amount of XP for reading that.
1) True interstate highways, complete with busted up cars where people tried to leave populated areas
2) When generating the world, take full advantage of all cores available to speed up world generation (I haven't tried it, I simply create many threads instead, but https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1542213/how-to-find-the-number-of-cpu-cores-via-net-c seems to have the answer)
3) More water. streams, rivers, ponds, lakes. Water wouldn't disappear due to the apocalypse. If anything water towers would dry up and you'd have to rely on natural resources for water.
A thought for you that don't like Alpha 17:
1) Turn down tree detail and lower the view distance to medium. The game runs fine in 1080p, 1440p, and even 4k on my system (though 4k gets down into the upper 30s/lower 40s FPS wise for me).
2) Stop comparing it to Alpha 16, it's not Alpha 16, it's an entirely new game.
3) The game already looks better than some AAA games I've played, and while I hope TFP focuses on optimizations, I also hope they don't do so at the expense of graphics quality. The game runs AMAZINGLY well on Linux under Steam/Proton, much better than Windows, so at least part of the problem is Microsoft.
To the TFP: Make sure you max out the graphical and core usage for the game. Get a Threadripper 1950x or 2950x and make sure it scales. The one thing I noticed is that it does not appear to take full advantage of the CPU or the GPU, so there is likely an engine bottleneck. Don't be afraid to write some shaders to assist with AI or something.
EDIT: Oh and to help with XP gain, give each town a name and give the player a small amount of XP for discovering it. Similarly, give each house a backstory, and have a journal or something that describes what happen. Let the player read through it and also give the player a small amount of XP for reading that.
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beerfly
Colony Rounder
I like it with all its flaws. Its a good challange to have fun around a random generated world under construction. Easy as that. (Expectations are excluded since so much of evolution it got that we really can`t expect something less than better).
Get the oportunity to have fun, not complain is my strategy and it worked for few thousands of hours on my two Steam accounts.
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