PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gareee]

What's the rocket science behind dropping the bridge by 1 block, and then adding a plate to catch the new gap,so that the UNREALISTIC and BUGGY AS FRACK wedge isn't necessary?

The same rocket science that has pebbles exploding doing 1 point damage to vehicles. If I take a minbike or bicycle on a quest run, most of the time it needs to be repaired by the end of the day.

 

[meganoth]

And that is why I HATE the whole idea of them spawning as "open". They aren't just spawning as open they are spawning as static blocks and therefore never usable. It was a very poor design decision in my opinion. Yes, they made it easier to loot a building(I don't know why they felt the need to make it easier but whatever) but they also dramatically lowered the number of blocks that could be interacted with in any way other than destroy. By definition that made the game less than what it was before.

I can see a good reason behind this.

A typical poi with kitchen has lets say about 10 cupboards in it. In previous alphas (for example) 6 of them were empty and 2 others had a single glass char in them. Opening all these cupboards bordered on grind.

In A17 only 5 of them are lootable. Consequently the same loot now occupies only 5 cupboards making the loot per cupboard better. Now you might find none empty and the two glass chars in the same cupboard. **Without** changing the total amount of loot you get.

What does the interactivity of an empty loot container give you?

 

[Gareee]

i just looked at the bridge that is awesome. I hope that RWG is back a good playable version when the next experimental version releases.

I just hope this means we have rivers and bridges in the next update. Why they aren't designed flat is beyond me. I'm guessing they just took the vanilla navezgame bridge to test it working in rwg.

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i just looked at the bridge that is awesome. I hope that RWG is back a good playable version when the next experimental version releases.

Now IF they can only add this to roads and gravel paths to go through mountains.To form tunnels and have debris/objects added when this occurs.

Would save a lot of the wonky vertical drops the roads and paths do now.

Would make a fairly spooky area to go into.

I'd LOVE mountain tunnels! We have them near us on the Blue Ridge Parkway.

 

[Gareee]

i just looked at the bridge that is awesome. I hope that RWG is back a good playable version when the next experimental version releases.

If it is any consolation it IS broken. So much so that there is a fix for it, if you edit the dll and the assembly file. I know this because someone on my team FIXED it. Now containers give proper loot at 25 percent.
If someone higher up says its fine, then that's all I need to know about the new hires. Your research is correct Royal.

Since jax found the bug and fixed it, why are you guys still going on about it? Did you miss his post?

 

[The Gronk]

The same rocket science that has pebbles exploding doing 1 point damage to vehicles. If I take a minbike or bicycle on a quest run, most of the time it needs to be repaired by the end of the day.

To be fair, if I take either out for a day's ride in real life they usually need a few minor repairs when I get back. Hitting a rock at any reasonable speed can sometimes buckle a wheel or flatten a tyre... sometimes it leads to you becoming one with the saddle in a very painful way.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

The problem I see with this method is:
A player will, if he loots a box and find crappy loot, stop looting and wait a while before continuing.

If he instead finds good loot, he will go into a loot frency no piranha could have ever thought possible.

Well, if you like that, go for it. But wouldn't it be better if there just was a small chance to get some phenomenal loot at any time?

For example you could put in lines into each lootgroup with a very low chance but with a minumum of 2 times the maximum the normal would give you. Example:

In the ammo loot group there is the line

<item name="ammo762mmBulletFMJ" count="1,20"/>

Add a first line

<item name="ammo762mmBulletFMJ" count="40,80" prob="0.01"/>

Since this is the first line, every hundreth time you normally would get some small amount of ammo you would get 40-80 bullets of 7.62 instead

Its not so easy, thats why i have 3 Sequences inside the sequence, even if you know that you just had 200%, it last only for one second.

Sure you can sit there with a Stopwatch and count down the 27 Sesconds and hope to hit the right second with the next crate.

But you simply dont know in which of the 3 Subsequences your 200% loot was.

The idea of adapting all lootlists.... well sure finally you can adjust the working Lootslist to the (not working as i wish) Lootabundance. And your suggestion is a good one for that case. But i would like a small mod that change so less as possible

 

[meganoth]

Regarding Loot Abundance... What if this value doesn't apply to a container until there's loot in it?
...

As far as I know this is the case. But if you think about it, it still would mean that you get half of all stuff. Because there should be the same amount of empty boxes (independent of lootabundance) and at 50% lootabundance each non-empty box would have half the stuff. The sum would again be just half the loot.

The problem is probably more about the fact that 1 hunting rifle or one bullet can't be halved. if you would find a hunting rifle at 100% lootabundance, at 50% lootabundance you can't find half a hunting rifle. Optimally you would find a hunting rifle with 50% probability, instead the game seems to always round down and gives you no hunting rifle, always.

The question is

A) Can this alone explain the many empty loot boxes people are seeing at 25% loot?

and

B) Even if it explains it, should the in-game option "lootabundance" be a parameter only a mathematican with knowledge of the internal loot algorithm understands or should it be a parameter where a normal player can estimate the results?

A normal player might know that loot is too much and he wants to only find half of that amount. He can't really know which lootabundance setting corresponds to the loot abundance he wants.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

And its not only about understanding. 25% should (in my opinion) stretch the gameplay pace, and not make it completly senseless to loot.

Perfect would be loot you have the ammo back you invest into the pois and lets say one good drop (Weapon, tool, mod,...) per ingame day.

But sure thats really really hard to realize

 

[The Gronk]

Since jax found the bug and fixed it, why are you guys still going on about it? Did you miss his post?

They're still complaining because the vanilla game is still bugged.

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And its not only about understanding. 25% should (in my opinion) stretch the gameplay pace, and not make it completly senseless to loot.
Perfect would be loot you have the ammo back you invest into the pois and lets say one good drop (Weapon, tool, mod,...) per ingame day.

But sure thats really really hard to realize

Especially when someone like me would clear the POI with melee or arrows and keep the extra ammo for horde night.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Especially when someone like me would clear the POI with melee or arrows and keep the extra ammo for horde night.

I do it the other way arround, why use ammo in the hordenight when i stand in a safe base and can melee them ?

Same for the Zombies on the streets.

Ammo i use primary in POI´s and WTF moments

(But your point is valid. Too many ways to play the game for such a balance)

Melee base

 

[Gnomaana]

I can see a good reason behind this.
A typical poi with kitchen has lets say about 10 cupboards in it. In previous alphas (for example) 6 of them were empty and 2 others had a single glass char in them. Opening all these cupboards bordered on grind.

In A17 only 5 of them are lootable. Consequently the same loot now occupies only 5 cupboards making the loot per cupboard better. Now you might find none empty and the two glass chars in the same cupboard. **Without** changing the total amount of loot you get.

What does the interactivity of an empty loot container give you?

It gives me the sense that I am in an actual real place. The more things you can interact with in the world the more the world "feels" like a real place. Oh, someone already looted that cabinet so now no one can put anything in it EVER again just seem cheesy.

 

[Gnomaana]

As far as I know this is the case. But if you think about it, it still would mean that you get half of all stuff. Because there should be the same amount of empty boxes (independent of lootabundance) and at 50% lootabundance each non-empty box would have half the stuff. The sum would again be just half the loot.
The problem is probably more about the fact that 1 hunting rifle or one bullet can't be halved. if you would find a hunting rifle at 100% lootabundance, at 50% lootabundance you can't find half a hunting rifle. Optimally you would find a hunting rifle with 50% probability, instead the game seems to always round down and gives you no hunting rifle, always.

The question is

A) Can this alone explain the many empty loot boxes people are seeing at 25% loot?

and

B) Even if it explains it, should the in-game option "lootabundance" be a parameter only a mathematican with knowledge of the internal loot algorithm understands or should it be a parameter where a normal player can estimate the results?

A normal player might know that loot is too much and he wants to only find half of that amount. He can't really know which lootabundance setting corresponds to the loot abundance he wants.

Too much of the loot in this game comes in stacks of 1 to make that use of Loot Abundance useful as an actual setting. If it really does just affect the amount of each item you get when you do find something then 25% and 100% are the same setting if you don't round down to 0. The intuitive way to do it would be that the 25% would be used to determine the chances of actually getting loot from any given container. Whatever the current formula is just multiply that by the current Loot Abundance setting to get the new probability and THEN do the loot check. If your RNG algorithm is any good, that would give you the result most people would assume that setting does.

 

[Gareee]

They're still complaining because the vanilla game is still bugged.
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Especially when someone like me would clear the POI with melee or arrows and keep the extra ammo for horde night.

Thats what mods are for.. to fix things before tfp can fix them in experimental.

... and exactly what we do... we rarely use guns at all because it wakes everything up, but on horde nights its no holds barred!

 

[The Gronk]

Thats what mods are for.. to fix things before tfp can fix them in experimental.

My inner pedant is curled up in the corner of my mind gently rocking back and forth while sobbing.

 

[beerfly]

Thats what mods are for.. to fix things before tfp can fix them in experimental.

Mods cannot replace what Pimps plan to do.

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My inner pedant is curled up in the corner of my mind gently rocking back and forth while sobbing.

Be brave, sir. Just another confused (hopefully) player. He will get it, matter of time.

 

[DaVegaNL]

Any idea on when 17.2 might come out? Else I'm craving to play a bit of crusader kings 2.. want to marry my 5-year old daughter to the 80-year old byzantine emperor, whilst simultaneously plotting to kill my 3rd concubine because she's been cheating on my chancellor.

You know.. relatable stuff.

 

[sillls]

Bridge building

I posted an article about my new bridge build in the forum with some screenshots. But I haven't gotten any feedback. I don't know why. I was hoping to find out if this was something that could help the game.

It's on Pg.3295 if your interested.

 

[Kamikaze]

Bridge building
I posted an article about my new bridge build in the forum with some screenshots. But I haven't gotten any feedback. I don't know why. I was hoping to find out if this was something that could help the game.

It's on Pg.3295 if your interested.

Your bridges are awesome. Your way is the same as i did in my game. If you place fence over a hole, Your vehicle is free to go over this steps withput any issues. I think this is way TFP should go with bridges.

I am sorry about my english.

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

It gives me the sense that I am in an actual real place. The more things you can interact with in the world the more the world "feels" like a real place. Oh, someone already looted that cabinet so now no one can put anything in it EVER again just seem cheesy.

The fridge is the worst offender.

The pre-looted fridge with its door open is visibly full of food - yet is supposed to be empty. Whoever did the models could have least made the "empty" and unsearchable fridge actually be empty.

 

[beerfly]

Any idea on when 17.2 might come out? Else I'm craving to play a bit of crusader kings 2.. want to marry my 5-year old daughter to the 80-year old byzantine emperor, whilst simultaneously plotting to kill my 3rd concubine because she's been cheating on my chancellor.
You know.. relatable stuff.

Don`t forget to throw a rock at the bouqet when the new wife throws it backwards for the single ones. Then run, just run.