PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Deraku]

hi i want to ask if there is any info when the 16K maps will work if you setup a server ?

at the moment only 8K maps are working :/

 

[Jugginator]

I notice this toolbar stuck in my game yesterday, happen to slot #5 only. all other works, not sure if it is related to slot. but just adding info.

It's happened to me in almost all slots. Idk, it happens frequently when in chests, but it's happened to me before I started going into chests. Usually, a bug presents itself in a reproducible manner, not this one lol.

 

[SickPuppy]

But just think of the rage if they were to remove cat food but *gasp* leave the dog food in! I'm not sure TFP would survive!

Don't dare touch my cat food, it's key to my survival.

While I'm at it can devs pls add Ash Williams elixir. For 10 mins female zombs give hp on hits.

Sawn off check

Chainsaw check

Hog check

Might aswell. Criminal that show got cancelled.

 

[FileMachete]

Cat people vs dog people is one we cannot touch!

ohhh but you did Gazz ... you ... did.

Dog Food = 10 Max Stamina, 5 Health

Cat Food = 5 Max Stamina, 2 Health

Now -if- you'd used the large can size like Lamb Rations for Dog Food, I _might_, -might-, have let it go... but you didn't... you used the -small- can model for, --both!-- Irrevocably implying while -laughing!- that Dog Food is massively BETTER than Cat Food!

This shall not stand!

I now call on all Cat People to unite! and begin Jihad! ( #catfoodgate )

 

[unlike them]

A question: what is this block/shape?

I decided to repair a broken bridge/highway in the Navazgane desert, and while examining the broken bridge, I found out this yellow stripe is not a paint, but a flat block. But I cannot find any shape like this in creative. Any help? (wood frame for scale)



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(edit added comment by QA Tester-unholyjoe)

 


the letter "I"

 


thanks

 


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[ieuri]

I'm very omnivorous. I've even eaten The Sandwiches when I had perfectly good food maybe a km away. I get by.


The funny thing is that I'm not even against learning by doing mechanics in principle - I just haven't come across one that doesn't revolve around sitting on your butt and crafting 3000 stone shovels or running a macro to fire 5000 crossbow bolts.

I know that some had suggested to have different grindable skills for stone and metal tools... but tripling the grind is not an effective way to reduce the grind.

All the MMOs and their crafting skills struggle with the same issue. It's boring as hell.

Base the crafting on some sort of rare loot or mined resource and it turns into a mining/farming game with the crafting being rather perfunctory.

The classic MMO solution is to throw mass amounts of content and recipes at the problem and mask the issue, an approach that would not work for TFP.

I think TFP need to move a little beyond worring about how every mechanic is abused. No matter what you do, people will find a way to abuse it. I can light off a bunch of campfires and just farm xp forever with screamers, that doesn't mean I should remove XP from zombies.

Someone away back made what was perhaps my favorite suggestion I ever heard, and that was to gain a level for every day your survived. It lets you play however you want, but everyone still progresses. Sure you could try to abuse it and just sit around, but you would still need food.

In regards to the attributes, maybe make it more RPG like and give people a fixed number of points to use on creation where you couldn't max everything. That would force specialization and let people develop. WIth gaining levels each day, even if you maxed INT at creation, you wouldn't be able to have high tier perks for a week or two.

Just trying to come up with alternate ideas for TFP. I really love your game, I just haven't been a fan of the latest skill system. Thanks again for the hard work.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

A question: what is this block/shape?
I decided to repair a broken bridge/highway in the Navazgane desert, and while examining the broken bridge, I found out this yellow stripe is not a paint, but a flat block. But I cannot find any shape like this in creative. Any help? (wood frame for scale)

View attachment 26726

I ?

(Forum wants 4 Characters)

 

[unlike them]

I ?

Indeed it is! thank you.

 

[Subquake]

The game is missing important trigger effects:

onSelfRunStop

onSelfWalkStop

onSelfCrouchStop

Because there is no way to check those states when using triggered_effect

 

[Gazz]

Now -if- you'd used the large can size like Lamb Rations for Dog Food, I _might_, -might-, have let it go... but you didn't... you used the -small- can model for, --both!-- Irrevocably implying while -laughing!- that Dog Food is massively BETTER than Cat Food!
This shall not stand!

I now call on all Cat People to unite! and begin Jihad! ( #catfoodgate )

Hmm. That sounds like a bug. We may need a vet.

 

[Menace312]

Hmm. That sounds like a bug. We may need a vet.

Superior food for superior pet. Sounds alright to me

 

[meganoth]

At the moment I'm grinding zombie-heads, after some balancing I'll be grinding crafting and mining. The fact that I'm grinding to improve skills I use isn't the issue, it's how fun for the player is the most efficient way.

Why would you grind only one or the other if the difference were negligible? Isn't there a balance where you would finally say "Why bother?" and just kill and mine both?

I'm even doing it without the perfect balance, by the way. As materials and loot are both needed. For me the balance is only important because in a co-op game people automatically specialize and then they should hopefully advance all at the same speed if they all do their part of the work.

TFP is wrong in that regard: It isn't about risk/reward with zombie XP because you can attract zombies and shoot them like chickens. Only POI looting has this risk. So if they want risk/reward to work, the XP has to come mainly from container-opening (or quests) and not killing zombies.

And/or reward for the higher risk should only come through loot, not XP. If you add XP according to risk/reward you will always have an imbalance in co-op games. Not only because risk is very dependant on player skill but also because co-op just does not work (psychologically) if players advance with different speeds. Most players will just not accept that.

 

[SickPuppy]

...
Someone away back made what was perhaps my favorite suggestion I ever heard, and that was to gain a level for every day your survived. It lets you play however you want, but everyone still progresses. Sure you could try to abuse it and just sit around, but you would still need food.

...

It's not a terrible idea and would solve abusing mechanics. You couldn't really take advantage of it by sitting around as it's gonna take 100s of days to level up high. Like u said still need go out for food, water and by then irradiateds show up so I don't think it's possible to survive without proper gear.

Might also promote better play instead of going gung ho on day 1, u die u don't get a skill point. But I think it's a bit frowned upon as it's too passive, I recall TFP have stated killing zombies should be rewarded more for the risk involved.

 

[The Gronk]

Why would you grind only one or the other if the difference were negligible? Isn't there a balance where you would finally say "Why bother?" and just kill and mine both?

That is exactly my point.

I know there is balancing planned for this but as it stands although I'm playing a builder character I'm getting far more XP from wandering hordes and clearing the odd POI, I'm not even going out of my way to kill zombies. I'm a fighter who has a hobby as a construction worker instead of a construction worker who sometimes has to kill.

 

[HerrKingsley]

It's not a terrible idea and would solve abusing mechanics. You couldn't really take advantage of it by sitting around as it's gonna take 100s of days to level up high. Like u said still need go out for food, water and by then irradiateds show up so I don't think it's possible to survive without proper gear.
Might also promote better play instead of going gung ho on day 1, u die u don't get a skill point. But I think it's a bit frowned upon as it's too passive, I recall TFP have stated killing zombies should be rewarded more for the risk involved.

I have been trying to mod this but since I can't figure out how to give skill point through buffs I'm stuck.

 

[FileMachete]

Hmm. That sounds like a bug. We may need a vet.

oh suuure... why don't you just turn on the vacuum while you're at it?? Not _all_ cats are afraid of the Vet! <hissss!>

Superior food for superior pet. Sounds alright to me

Blasphemy! :rant: and to further heap puppy chow on top of insult I've just finished extensive research and found that -raw- Animal Fat is -also- better than Cat Food! Raw Fat has _0%_ chance to cause food poisoning! Outrageous!

#catfoodgate !!

 

[JaxTeller718]

I'm very omnivorous. I've even eaten The Sandwiches when I had perfectly good food maybe a km away. I get by.


The funny thing is that I'm not even against learning by doing mechanics in principle - I just haven't come across one that doesn't revolve around sitting on your butt and crafting 3000 stone shovels or running a macro to fire 5000 crossbow bolts.

I know that some had suggested to have different grindable skills for stone and metal tools... but tripling the grind is not an effective way to reduce the grind.

All the MMOs and their crafting skills struggle with the same issue. It's boring as hell.

Base the crafting on some sort of rare loot or mined resource and it turns into a mining/farming game with the crafting being rather perfunctory.

The classic MMO solution is to throw mass amounts of content and recipes at the problem and mask the issue, an approach that would not work for TFP.

So you yanked out the entire system because some morons made a macro to fire 5000 crossbow bolts. Sounds legit. The very worst thing you can do is to engage and battle exploiters to this degree. Cover up the basic exploits yes. But now you are significantly changing the foundation of your game to go to war with at BEST a handful of people who will bang on a wood block all night to level their stone axe. What about the majority of players who WOULDN'T employ this tactic but rather enjoyed the system as it was? And were looking forward to improvements to it?

Biggest mistake I learned on my mod was removing fun things, sensible things that people liked to wreck an exploiters day. I lost a lot of players doing this on my server. It became a war. You exploit this, ok ill take it out now what. Well, you found a new way? Ok ill just remove XP from digging now what. You know who pays in the end when you do this? Your customers. You're never going to stop the player who will sit in bis base and craft 500 shovels because they have an insane amount of patience. You may as well lock the xmls too since an explorer can add 500 skill points to his starter quest. At what point do you draw a line in fighting something like that?

Mind you not everyone shares your opinion on MMO crafting, but theres a way to have BOTH if you have an open mind about it and not jump straight to a solution of "just remove it".

 

[khzmusik]

I notice this toolbar stuck in my game yesterday, happen to slot #5 only. all other works, not sure if it is related to slot. but just adding info.

I've encountered this issue (many times) and they have happened in different slots. Only one slot at a time, but they can be a different slot each time it happens. So, for example, it's not limited to just the fifth slot.

At least it's a known issue, reported by many people, so I'm pretty sure TFP are going to fix it in the next patch.

 

[wolffblood]

That is exactly my point.
I know there is balancing planned for this but as it stands although I'm playing a builder character I'm getting far more XP from wandering hordes and clearing the odd POI, I'm not even going out of my way to kill zombies. I'm a fighter who has a hobby as a construction worker instead of a construction worker who sometimes has to kill.

Makes sense. But that's the issue with xp balance for what people want to do :/

Especially since many people will think "Why does the builder level just as fast, if not faster than me, but doesn't do anything that could kill them or have negative repercussions?" I add the faster since if a person dies, they then have the debuff, then have to run all the way back for their stuff, etc. and a builder wouldn't have to do that since they will not likely die and if they do, they're usually right next to their base anyways. Then the builder is now stronger than the fighter, etc. etc.

A fighter does have a lot more risk involved, so a builder wouldn't inherently be a higher level than the fighter since majority of games base levels, progression, etc. based on risk involved. But to then balance it out, a player level in general is an issue alone for specializing. Some of the best games I've played with specializing were ones that had no player level and everything was based upon use (but it was a SP game, so not this issue of a builder lvling faster than a fighter since you were the only one actually getting anywhere. For the life of me I cannot remember the game). The big issue right now is just that a fighter can lvl like 10x faster more or less. Drop that to like 3x or so, then it would make more sense.

There's just so many factors to figure out and balancing to be done. A bit more insane than I want to care for currently, lol. I'll let TFP and the modders figure it out. Just means more different ways to play this game and more fun I'll have trying them all. Like now, I did make a joke map like I was talking of yesterday. Slower lvling, max perks, going to raise water/food back to normal, and no level gates. Pretty fun to just make bases and explore. Shoot, I may raise max stam and max hp up to 300 just for fun. Or just make it to like 500 stam, 500 food, no perk points. So have to find everything. Who knows. So many ways to play this game, hehehe.

 

[dregonazure]

So you yanked out the entire system because some morons made a macro to fire 5000 crossbow bolts. Sounds legit. The very worst thing you can do is to engage and battle exploiters to this degree. Cover up the basic exploits yes. But now you are significantly changing the foundation of your game to go to war with at BEST a handful of people who will bang on a wood block all night to level their stone axe. What about the majority of players who WOULDN'T employ this tactic but rather enjoyed the system as it was? And were looking forward to improvements to it?
Biggest mistake I learned on my mod was removing fun things, sensible things that people liked to wreck an exploiters day. I lost a lot of players doing this on my server. It became a war. You exploit this, ok ill take it out now what. Well, you found a new way? Ok ill just remove XP from digging now what. You know who pays in the end when you do this? Your customers. You're never going to stop the player who will sit in bis base and craft 500 shovels because they have an insane amount of patience. You may as well lock the xmls too since an explorer can add 500 skill points to his starter quest. At what point do you draw a line in fighting something like that?

Mind you not everyone shares your opinion on MMO crafting, but theres a way to have BOTH if you have an open mind about it and not jump straight to a solution of "just remove it".

sitting in your base just crafting 500 shovels isnt exactly fun gameplay though, and that exp should only help you make a better shovel rather than other tools. if crafting was more like say finalfantasy 14 or say dragon quest 11 where you actually have to pay attention and basically do a crafting mini game to make the item, maybe then they could have it give exp again but just clicking a button to craft 500 shovels and then tossing them out as they are being made is not exactly fun gameplay