PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[wolffblood]

It seems like the current AI scripting has them beeline for the source of a sound in the highest aggression possible, without any timeouts or anything. They *will* get to that location. Only then do they lose their laser focus and start bumbling around like mindless undead again.
It would be nice if they ratchet up. The first noise has them wander less-aimlessly towards the noise, but be ok with going off on a tangent and lose interest quickly. Only if they hear continued noise do they aggro up to manic breaking, and it ought to take a few iterations of noise to get that focused.

I've had things go 20+ blocks, up, around and through, over a single small noise. There isn't any of the movie-like "move close, shuffle and snuffle, sense nothing else and shamble away" that makes cowering silently in the dark worth doing. You activate anything now, you HAVE to run far or kill it. No cowering allowed.

Hmmm, once you get enough of the From the Shadows, you can do that. Plenty of times I've hit a sleeper, they come to check, and I've walked just off to the side. They walk past, I shoot them again in the head, dead. Move on to next. Even a few times I've shot one that came to investigate while outside, stealth off, shoot in head, move while they go to where I just was. Even a few times where they would just come close, I'm on the other side of the wall, they then walk off. But as I said, you need From the Shadows. If you don't have any, yeah, it doesn't work as often if at all. At least that's what I've noticed.

 

[Boidster]

Why does everyone use this example when it hasn't been a thing since A15?

I dunno, are you reading the thread? "Learn by doing" is a big thing with people. For example (emphasis mine):

I would like some sort of progression benefit. I would change all the main attributes (Perception, Strength, Fortitude, Agility, and Intellect) to be progression based (1-100). You would gain experience in them (by the activities below) and IF you wanted you could spend 1 perk point and get 10 points.
Perception - Ranged Hits / Looting

Strength - Melee Hits / Carrying Encumbered

Fortitude - Running / Absorbing Hits

Agility - Sneaking / Swimming (cause swimming is an agility perk)

Intellect - Crafting

I would also separate some of the sub-perks under Intellect out because Intellect is way to powerful. I made a post about moving Barter/Daring Adventurer to a trader reputation progression idea.

Ed

I don't want to get better at running by running around the map. It becomes "oh I better run around for an hour or two today to make sure I grind out some Fortitude XP." As Gazz said, it's not great gameplay.

I think it'll be better after they balance the non-zombie XP.

 

[The Gronk]

I dunno, are you reading the thread? "Learn by doing" is a big thing with people. For example (emphasis mine):


I don't want to get better at running by running around the map. It becomes "oh I better run around for an hour or two today to make sure I grind out some Fortitude XP." As Gazz said, it's not great gameplay.

I think it'll be better after they balance the non-zombie XP.

We call those kind of people "joggers" in real life. Nobody is forcing you to max out your character, that's a choice you are making. I've played many rpg games where I ignore a portion of the mechanics because the character has no interest in them.

I've advocated movement speed being tied to how far you've traveled on foot, if you want to sit in a car all day then go ahead but don't expect six-pack abs and a decent cardiovascular system from doing it.

 

[lord_ahriman]

So, minibike disappearing still a thing? Lost almost 2 days of progress due to rollback. I just did that because all my money and ammo recently bought was storaged in the minibike. What annoying bug from A16...

 

[wolffblood]

We call those kind of people "joggers" in real life. Nobody is forcing you to max out your character, that's a choice you are making. I've played many rpg games where I ignore a portion of the mechanics because the character has no interest in them.
I've advocated movement speed being tied to how far you've traveled on foot, if you want to sit in a car all day then go ahead but don't expect six-pack abs and a decent cardiovascular system from doing it.

Whie that's true, most everything else goes along with game though. Fighting, looting, etc. Maybe if they did a good balance with the running, but if it's the same, yeah, not wanting to run everywhere. Takes away a bit from the gameplay.

Also, getting xp to raise a stat from being hit is always a dumb idea since the idea is to NEVER be hit. Then you have to game the system by sitting on a cactus again. So basically, Fortitude never goes up, lol. You could also have Fortitude raise while in combat, harvesting, etc. Because I bet people that mine all day then go home and sit on their butts, never jogging, etc. would have great endurance and strength with it.

 

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

Fortitude could also be raised by surviving food poisoning.

You'll get people min-maxing no matter what system you put in and then complaining about it.

 

[wolffblood]

Fortitude could also be raised by surviving food poisoning.
You'll get people min-maxing no matter what system you put in and then complaining about it.

That works too, but I tend to only eat cooked food. Have yet to be forced to eat canned stuff. Even on low loot abundance. But, that'd be a good way, too.

And ain't that the friggin truth, lol. I do feel attributes/perks would be better if there was a mix, but I understand that it may not be feasible currently (or ever) and am okay with that. I'd bet some mod though will come out with "on use" attributes and "points" perks.

 

[ieuri]

I dunno, are you reading the thread? "Learn by doing" is a big thing with people. For example (emphasis mine):


I don't want to get better at running by running around the map. It becomes "oh I better run around for an hour or two today to make sure I grind out some Fortitude XP." As Gazz said, it's not great gameplay.

I think it'll be better after they balance the non-zombie XP.

The point I feel is being made is that we want more interaction for progression. A17 has you basically killing zombies just to get better at everything. Quite a few of us preferred the learn by doing model and would love to see that brought back even if it is just for the attributes. Grinding on zombies to improve INT is more ridiculous in my opinion then grinding on crafting. Either way it is a grind, but at least it feels more natural to do things related to the attribute.

 

[Fren]

I use BlueFang and have been able to do RWG on my server since the 1st A17e... sounds like your hosting company is giving you the run around.

wouldnt be the first time ....

probably have to contact support again I guess... thx for ur reply

 

[HungryZombie]

I dunno, are you reading the thread? "Learn by doing" is a big thing with people. For example (emphasis mine):


I don't want to get better at running by running around the map. It becomes "oh I better run around for an hour or two today to make sure I grind out some Fortitude XP." As Gazz said, it's not great gameplay.

I think it'll be better after they balance the non-zombie XP.

I have to agree. It sounds nice in theory but it reminds me of games like Skryim where to get better at sneaking people walk into a wall or run around damaging & curing themselves to get better at Restoration.

 

[wolffblood]

The point I feel is being made is that we want more interaction for progression. A17 has you basically killing zombies just to get better at everything. Quite a few of us preferred the learn by doing model and would love to see that brought back even if it is just for the attributes. Grinding on zombies to improve INT is more ridiculous in my opinion then grinding on crafting. Either way it is a grind, but at least it feels more natural to do things related to the attribute.

I feel like TFP just doesn't want someone to be doing the same exact thing over and over and over and over to increase that skill, but wanted you to be more free to go about normal activities and still get better at everything. The grind tends to push people away more than not. Repetition is a lot of people's weak spot, lol.

Though if you widened the range of what lvls up an attribute, even if it builds xp for multiple attributes, then that could work. But even fighting would raise INT, because you would then learn better ways to deal with zombies, learn how to use your environment around you, learn what materials are best against them, learn how each zombie acts and best way to deal with them. While out fighting zombies, you could see new things, and by doing that, learning how to make them or what materials are best for said items.

As I said earlier, I would rather there be a mix, but I understand their point too.

 

[The Gronk]

I have to agree. It sounds nice in theory but it reminds me of games like Skryim where to get better at sneaking people walk into a wall or run around damaging & curing themselves to get better at Restoration.

I like it _because_ it reminds me of Skyrim.

Most craftsmen produce the same thing over-and-over again, to later sell them. Soldiers practice sneaking and shooting for a long time before they ever get near a battlefield. Doctors practice injecting underneath an orange peel before they start jabbing needles into patients.

That's how you gain skills in real life.

I have no problem with people grinding to get skills, I came up with a few inventive ways in Skyrim myself, it's when they complain that they've chosen to do it. They want the reward without the work.

 

[TSBX]

Gain by use skills need to be carefully constructed to make sense and not be just to do x until y happens. Especially when gameplay is a factor. I liked that system, but the spam crafting and other "mini-games" were really off putting.

 

[wolffblood]

Mhmm, I don't have much time a week to play this game, rather not spend all of it sitting on a cactus, or just running across the map, or just hitting a rock for a few hours...

 

[The Gronk]

Mhmm, I don't have much time a week to play this game, rather not spend all of it sitting on a cactus, or just running across the map, or just hitting a rock for a few hours...

Why would you feel the need to? Is it efficiency?

The skills you are using in your normal gameplay will be increasing naturally anyway.

The lowest levels of a character are usually the most fun, where you feel you have accomplished something heroic against greater odds.

 

[dregonazure]

why should you get exp for sitting on a cactus or letting a zombie hit you over and over? getting hit should be a negative thing in a survival game, not something you should be grinding

 

[DaVegaNL]

Quite an interesting phenomena. After a17e was released, the positive steam ratings skyrocketed (to 85 if i remember correctly). After a17 stable released, the same positive ratings plummeted (currently hovering in the low 60's).

 

[TSBX]

Why are you watching chicken bones be cast? It ultimately means nothing.

 

[The Gronk]

why should you get exp for sitting on a cactus or letting a zombie hit you over and over? getting hit should be a negative thing in a survival game, not something you should be grinding

Sitting on a cactus is a silly way to level up, why would you do it?

Fighting in armour is different than fighting in a thong. You must learn to use the fact that your armour has strong points to your advantage and use them to provide openings that would otherwise be unavailable. You must also be aware of the armours weaknesses to guard against exposing them. There's more to armed melee than just waving sharpened metal spikes at each other while clutching your grandma's occasional table to fend off blows.

 

[wolffblood]

Quite an interesting phenomena. After a17e was released, the positive steam ratings skyrocketed (to 85 if i remember correctly). After a17 stable released, the same positive ratings plummeted (currently hovering in the low 60's).

It's the whole, it's in the public now, they try it, don't like it because it's rougher early on or different, then give bad reviews. Once they play longer, realize mid to late game is actually better or easier, then they are happy, etc. etc. Typically happens any game that has a big update, lol.

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why should you get exp for sitting on a cactus or letting a zombie hit you over and over? getting hit should be a negative thing in a survival game, not something you should be grinding

Right, but someone was saying that taking hits would increase Fortitude (if was like A16 system). Well you don't want to get hit by zombies and risk infection, bleeding, death. So sit on a cactus, take hits, raise attribute, jump off, heal up, repeat, lol. That's why I was saying that having that be a cause to increase anything wouldn't be right since the whole aspect of survival is to NOT ever take damage. That's all.