PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[chikorina]

Hello everyone,

can someone help me understand one of the changes in the latest patch notes?

"Sleeper volume padding of .9 in xz for when passive is disabled"

I have no idea what this means:upset:

 

[Lo-X]

Hello. Do you know that since the b233, the bears took power in 7 days? They appear in place of POI sleepers. We find them by tens.

 

[Drithyl]

Hello. Do you know that since the b233, the bears took power in 7 days? They appear in place of POI sleepers. We find them by tens.

Did you start a new game?

 

[khzmusik]

Lemme fix that for you...
"The entire point of the game for me is to "get to the top," where "top" means "I can be safe from zombies and not die."

It really can't be otherwise in a zombie survival game. Don't get me wrong, players (including me) enjoy the farming and crafting aspects, but of necessity they have to be done in the context of surviving zombies.

Because without that goal, there's no motivation to craft steel/iron tools, or make a concrete base, or get better food, or start a farm, or whatever. You might as well just mod out all skill points and leveling.

(EDIT: Or only play in creative mode .)

My only point: Roland shouldn't criticize players for doing what the game, itself, is motivating the player to do. If "rush[ing] to get to the top" causes the game to be less enjoyable, that's not a problem with the player, that's a problem with the game.

...But having said all that, I don't think it causes the game to be less enjoyable. Even if you rush to get a forge, you're so deficient in other areas that you aren't closer to reaching the "top" than you would have been otherwise.

Or close enough, anyways, and TFP are still balancing things.

 

[Nakz]

Hello. Do you know that since the b233, the bears took power in 7 days? They appear in place of POI sleepers. We find them by tens.

only when you don't start a new game as explained everywhere. please delete your world and start a fresh game with every new patch to avoid unneeded and unwanted bugs.

 

[faatal]

Hi, my a13 save doesn't work and your company sucks because you devs are too lazy to fix it, and that's why no one buys your game anymore; I've seen the steam reviews so I know, so I'm leaving and never returning. If you listened to me, you'd all be profit sharing millionaires because I took some gwbasic classes back in the 80's so I have a VERY good understanding of how to make games!
gorilla.bas for life!

Dear Sir,

a13 was deemed an unlucky number, so we can't support anything using that number. Based on your awesome feedback, we have decided to rewrite the game in gwbasic. Estimated completion date is December 2023. Please never return then and provide us with more incredible insight. Disclaimer: due to expected performance issues with gwbasic the game is scheduled to be rereleased December 2028 after being rewritten in assembly code.

 

[Jugginator]

Dear Sir,a13 was deemed an unlucky number, so we can't support anything using that number. Based on your awesome feedback, we have decided to rewrite the game in gwbasic. Estimated completion date is December 2023. Please never return then and provide us with more incredible insight. Disclaimer: due to expected performance issues with gwbasic the game is scheduled to be rereleased December 2028 after being rewritten in assembly code.

Nooo! gwbasic is so not hip. Please rewrite the game in either SQL or Java. I would say Python but that's a very very hardcore complicated language, I suspect you guys don't have programmers knowledgeable in it.

 

[faatal]

Is nightmare supposed to be faster than human running speed? Cause it's way slower..

Nightmare is an "experimental" speed meant to be faster than sprint. Unfortunately it is capped by the run anim speed, so does not do much at the moment. There are ways to make it faster but they need careful testing to not break the other speeds. Careful takes time and I don't like breaking stuff.

 

[Pritch]

I rarely post, but I have to say something here. Overall I like this game, but for the love of casual gamers please STOP level locking content. gyrocopter locked until lvl 120 is ridiculous. Locking it behind anything other than a point system is ridiculous. level locking isn't fun please stop this nonsense. It is one of the reasons I couldn't give the game a fully-positive score in the poll. let players pursue their own character nitches using the points they earn in a way that reflects the type of game they want to focus on. The game is hard enough having to walk over 1k minimum just to get to a quest and realistically any APEX is going to have vehicles abandoned that a person can just hotwire and claim. I hate that I have to work so hard just to be able to drive around in this game and now I have to wait until I have been playing for several weeks to even buy the perk. I was so excited last build when the level caps were removed. Please stop level locking (but keep up all the other good work you guys are doing great!). Thank you.

 

[khzmusik]

Yah, that would be a pretty short game.... Day 3 max you win. Get to the top of any of the tallest buildings and you are safe from zombies...

Sorry to keep harping on about this, but this statement is actually a good example of what I was talking about.

The game doesn't let you do "win" this way. That's where the survival aspect comes in. You could go to the top of the tallest building, and even assuming you're totally safe from zombies, you'd still starve and get dehydrated and die.

So, the survival aspect provides an in-game motivation to put yourself at risk by going out among the zombies, thus providing a motivation for getting a farm going, building a base, leveling up, etc.

If the game actually did let you do this, then it would be a problem with the game, not the player. Roland could say "this is only a problem for players that sit at the top of the tallest building" - but with the motivation given to you by the game, players would be crazy not to do that.

...And that's the last I'll say about it.

 

[Jugginator]

Regarding Pritch, I think they SHOULD be level locked, but I also think it would be nice to have some functionable or some missing some parts around. Such as a chopper on a helipad uptop a hospital skyscraper, maybe a random chance outside a bar or something for a minibike or hog that requires hell to get + need repairs. Maybe a busted engine that you need to swap out or something.

 

[Roland]

My only point: Roland shouldn't criticize players for doing what the game, itself, is motivating the player to do. If "rush[ing] to get to the top" causes the game to be less enjoyable, that's not a problem with the player, that's a problem with the game.

Oh yes he should!

Because the whole key to this is speed. I don't disagree with you or deny that the purpose of the game is to survive. I play dead is dead myself and survive just fine by reaching level 10 by day seven. See? Surviving zombies and working my way through the progression but not focused on doing it as quickly as possible.

What is absolutely ridiculous is to do everything in your power to rush through the progression and reach the end by day 5 (as one poster claimed) and.....complain about it. There is nothing in the game forcing anyone to hunt down every zombie (A17) make pointless tunnels to nowhere (A16) or hundreds of never to be used stone axes (A15) for the sole purpose of leveling up as quickly and efficiently as possible. Not only is there no forcing but as I just proved in my first paragraph it isn't even needed for survival. You can play the game pursuing other goals besides leveling up and still survive just fine.

Now you just said you like to play efficient and fast and you like it and have no complaints. That's great. You should play how you enjoy playing and that is exactly what I want for all those who race to the end of the game but then cry about how boring it is by day 10. Don't play that way if you admit it isn't fun. Guess what I'm doing for 30+ days after you've called it quits? Still having fun and still finding things to do and surviving.

It really is so easy.

Let me ask you this: What if the game dropped all xp gaining from killing zombies and all other activities so that nothing earned xp and instead you just increased a level at the end of each day that you survived. This would mean that no matter what you did or how efficiently you did it you would always level up once per day. What activities would you do? Where would the fun of the game reside for you? Would you still hunt and kill every zombie in your path since it wouldn't matter or would you ignore some? Would you use the trader more or less? Would you build more? What goals would drive you in the game if the ability to speed up the progression was removed from your control and the only actions that mattered were those that would help you survive and that were of interest to you?

Now try playing that way even though you can gain xp. You'll still be able to survive. I played for 800+ hours before xp was even added to the game and I pretty much play the same way now as I did then.

 

[faatal]

Hello everyone, can someone help me understand one of the changes in the latest patch notes?

"Sleeper volume padding of .9 in xz for when passive is disabled"

I have no idea what this means:upset:

Sleepers are inside of rectangles. .9 meters of extra horizontal size was added to those rectangles when it checks how close a player is. When the player is close it activates the sleepers, so they can hear noise and see light. Otherwise you could walk next to a POI, shoot a gun and every sleeper would wake up and try to find you. We don't want that ruining our traps and performance would be bad.

 

[MrSamuelAdam]

Nightmare is an "experimental" speed meant to be faster than sprint. Unfortunately it is capped by the run anim speed, so does not do much at the moment. There are ways to make it faster but they need careful testing to not break the other speeds. Careful takes time and I don't like breaking stuff.

Understandable.

I just heard it was supposed to be faster than player running speed so you can't outrun them.

 

[chikorina]

Sleepers are inside of rectangles. .9 meters of extra horizontal size was added to those rectangles when it checks how close a player is. When the player is close it activates the sleepers, so they can hear noise and see light. Otherwise you could walk next to a POI, shoot a gun and every sleeper would wake up and try to find you. We don't want that ruining our traps and performance would be bad.

Thank you for the reply.

I understand that this is for the editor now.

 

[Nakz]

Sleepers are inside of rectangles. .9 meters of extra horizontal size was added to those rectangles when it checks how close a player is. When the player is close it activates the sleepers, so they can hear noise and see light. Otherwise you could walk next to a POI, shoot a gun and every sleeper would wake up and try to find you. We don't want that ruining our traps and performance would be bad.

I feel like this game is leaning more and more towards a full-on horror game with all the jumpscares and player-designated traps, which is not a good thing for me but maybe good for others...

I kinda wanted to start drawing more or all the sleepers out of a POI to clear it, like in any zombie tvshow where they knock on the doors/windows to draw them out.

Hate the fact that EVERY POI is a dungeon instead of 50% or just larger ones.. but gotta cope with it.

keep up the good work nonetheless.

Hope Passive XP is fixed/being fixed. it should be a priority imo.

 

[Jugginator]

I noticed some smaller houses and such have very few zombies in them. If it was intended, thank you. I do like the balance on hard dungeons and little-infested houses. But yeah I love the shift to full on horror.

 

[faatal]

Thank you for the reply.I understand that this is for the editor now.

It is not for the editor. POIs usually have many sleeper volumes in them. The volumes control what type of sleepers are in them, when those sleepers are spawned, killed and when to respawn.

 

[Damocles]

Let me ask you this: What if the game dropped all xp gaining from killing zombies and all other activities so that nothing earned xp and instead you just increased a level at the end of each day that you survived. This would mean that no matter what you did or how efficiently you did it you would always level up once per day. What activities would you do? Where would the fun of the game reside for you? Would you still hunt and kill every zombie in your path since it wouldn't matter or would you ignore some? Would you use the trader more or less? Would you build more? What goals would drive you in the game if the ability to speed up the progression was removed from your control and the only actions that mattered were those that would help you survive and that were of interest to you?

Now try playing that way even though you can gain xp. You'll still be able to survive. I played for 800+ hours before xp was even added to the game and I pretty much play the same way now as I did then.

There are plenty of games without character progression (XP, skills). The game would be then centered around other things:

-collecting the best items and resources, to make the player more powerful and have more options

-have some larger meta-game, such as fighting against some active factions (bandits), fighting for their territory

-exploration: if the game has novel destinations to explore. (currently there is a limited set of POI templates, so this cant be a long term goal, they are only new once). A random generator for the POIs would give it more variety

-story ... an approach a lot of narrative game pursue. Not strictly needed in a sandbox game though.

 

[faatal]

I kinda wanted to start drawing more or all the sleepers out of a POI to clear it, like in any zombie tvshow where they knock on the doors/windows to draw them out.

You can do that for parts of a POI, just not for an entire POI unless it is a small one.