PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Ayrton]

Huh?

I mean this

 

[khzmusik]

why the return to the patchwork terrain?.

Kinyajuu (one of the devs) explained this a few pages back:

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=908665&viewfull=1#post908665

tl;dr - the new A17 RWG needs a lot of work, so they temporarily "rolled back" to the A16 RWG. They will fix this, but only after other, more pressing bugs/issues are worked out.

 

[wildaxeman1]

The way I see it, the biggest problem in the new B231/233 system is: heavily in favor of multiplayer; single player gets an unnecessary punishment. Progression from a sp standpoint is very slow now and I dare to say some people will leave the game if changes are not implemented. I always thought grinding in A17 is harder than A16, but still challenge accepted. However, the new skill system will hit the sp game very hard. By lvl 70 just to keep my favorites perks and ranks, I need at least 21 extra skill points. TFP needs to implement a middle ground solution or new system may kill sp game.

i can not see, how it is punishment to solo player. i play solo. attribute system needs perhaps little balance, that's it. maybe not to go over 3 points per attribute, like 1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3/3/3. it is up to you, how you decide to build your character and where to spend points. since there is no lvl gate to attributes, you can spend pints where ever you want. xp gaining will be balanced too, that has been sayd by insiders. keep playing and all be alright at the end, i hope

 

[Retsof123]

I just don't have it in me anymore Roland. Writing is definitely on the wall here. I WAS optimistic but I am not any longer. The praise you say I will heap is already in that second to last paragraph. But maybe that's the issue here? You guys maybe think long time fans will just always be here. We will always adapt. I can tell you that isnt always the case.
A lot of people say growing is best for the future of this game, attract new people etc. But I think what gets forgotten is the long time players. The people who will be here when the Pimps aren't. The modders who will ensure that 6 years after development moves on WE are still making new content and fueling players to keep playing and therefore keep introducing new players to a dormant game. What happens when THOSE players become jaded?

And to put an exclamation point on my last post, I think it would benefit you and the Pimps well to look at other forms of feedback. A great case in point is the new random gen. Once again we are back to the ugly mish mash of biomes with no rhyme or reason from 16 (see a trend here with everything being reverted back to A16 standards).

You will notice that there are a lot of posts detailing how much they HATE this RWG. See here is where you guys are truly mucking this up. Knee jerk reactions. Now maybe this was the plan all along, and if so then it was INCREDIBLY short sighted to get players used to a nice neat map and then throw this back at them. Much like the backtracking going on with perks and zombies etc I think moves are being made before players are even given a chance to get used to a new way of doing things.

Seriously, look at this Alpha in its current state. The ONLY thing left that makes it any different than 16 at this point is the POIs and the AI. You have either reverted things BACK to A16, OR yanked out content from A16 meaning...its somehow LESS than A16 was. What??

No Roland there won't be a post where i heap praise on this Alpha because quite frankly it took my praise in week one and tossed it aside. I have no more praise to give. And that saddens me MOST of all.

- - - Updated - - -

How embarrassingly awful. After weeks of getting realistic looking roads and towns we are back to this garbage. Whatever.

I so agree, I loved B119, it exceeded my expectations. Now we find 233 going way too far backwards. Nerfed XP, nerfed RWG even spawned in the middle of a city for the first time ever. Found my trader in a wierd mishmash of burnt/desert overlaid with snow. Still, I guess its a WIP. I trust TFP are aware and will sort it out. Hopefully Kinya will be released from other priorities to give RWG some much needed attention. The B119 RWG was much better IMO. But then, I must say it is still the best version of 7 Days to Die yet, at least since A8 (lol). Keep doing what you do do best, Pimps. Love your work.

 

[danielspoa]

Kinyajuu (one of the devs) explained this a few pages back:
https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=908665&viewfull=1#post908665

tl;dr - the new A17 RWG needs a lot of work, so they temporarily "rolled back" to the A16 RWG. They will fix this, but only after other, more pressing bugs/issues are worked out.

thanks for posting this, it's one of the important messages that get lost in this loooooong thread

I didn't see it before.

 

[8bitkronik]

Just read some of the past few pages:

I understand what they mean by balancing by pushing the games to certain extremes to measure the outcome.

I do that myself in other scenarios. I think as a community we have to realize this is experimental. That does not mean we have to infinitely patient or not give feedback. That just means we have to be constructive in our approach to better serve the developers and ourselves. The gaming community.

We're so fortunate to have developers who attempt to communicate with their base and take their input as needed for as long as we've been able to experience.

I think it depends on what their direction is headed for. Are we focusing upon classes and more linear gameplay or more of a sandbox with danger?

Yes, it is discerning for someone to "be able" to get a forge day one. However, in a game were other skills are not only useful but vital to survival that would appear to be a poorly executed choice.

Some individuals say the game is too difficult. Some say it's too easy. I think those statements are dependent upon that player's gaming style.

For example, the smither needs a forge to progress in the area that interests them most. So following whatever obstacles there are to obtain that goal are necessary to that player.

However, if that player had chosen a "Fighter-Survivalist" gameplay they would have an exceedingly easier and more enjoyable experience.

So, what does it come down to? Do we want to enable the idea of classes or do we want to encourage an "approach" to gameplay?

All these notions contain their own sense of balancing it just depends upon the direction. I for one see that this definitely makes multiplayer a bigger facet of the game.

However, I do hear from some of the mining community that it has become exceedingly difficult for them to do so in single player.

Some prefer zombie slaying, some prefer crafting/smithing.

The important thing to remember is this game is still in experimental.

 

[PiercedFromWithin]

I don't necessarily mind the biomes being mixed around, but I would love to see them be bigger. Having a patch of one biome that isn't much bigger than two houses is a bit jarring, especially when there are such clear and obvious differences between them and their weather. That adjustment to stop the patches of freezing cold snow right in the middle of boiling hot desert will be a great boost too as that's so incredibly silly(and even more so when that snow patch is in the middle of a blizzard yet is only 50 blocks wide by 150 long).

 

[Boidster]

Can you point me in the right direction? I don't know if you can tell but I'm a little wet around the ears here.
Most of the time I just see two separate parties argue something with increasing frustration here lol

Sure, and sorry about my overly-blunt post. I'm a little irritated with the tone of this forum also. Not that my irritation really matters.

First, if you follow this particular thread for a day or two, you'll see the devs and mods pop in from time to time with helpful info. Skip posts if you want and just read the ones with yellow or green user names.

Secondly, You can use the advanced forum search tool to search for users "Gazz" or "faatal" to see everything they've posted in this thread. I've found their posts usually either just humor, or helpful information.

Here are a couple of examples:

(in response to a post about needing better loot for higher-level POIs)
Everyone wants to get to that point.

Problem so far: We did not have any kind of rare and amazing loot to put in these places.

That is going to change.

(In response to a post about POI zombies being very good at appearing out of nowhere)
Zombies spawn 6m before you enter a sleeper volume. The POI designers have put them in all kinds of hiding places like ceilings, cabinets, behind TVs or crouching in corners where they are hard to see. It is easy to think you cleared a room, but have not.

This one was just yesterday, I think. Very helpful and the only time I've seen kinyajuu post, personally.

To those going on about RWG right now, have patience. I work on gameplay systems too so I can't just spend hours upon hours on RWG right now. It's functional, the biome generator is running from xml again, now I need the time to clean it up. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or what would look best. It never is. It's a matter of having the time to do it.
With the way RWG was created this release I'll be able to work on it without breaking worlds that players already have. With that though do realize, if there is a crafting bug, I have to work on it, not RWG. If there is a problem with buffs or effects or animations or progression, I have to work on those, not RWG. See where I'm going here? My time is at a premium and RWG will get it's love, just not right at this exact moment. There are bigger fish to fry than tweaking RWG to "perfection" right now.

When it comes to RWG, have faith. I have things in the fire, I just don't have time to finish them up prior to the holidays so I put in what I had ready to go and put the biome stuff back to the old a16 version until I get the new cellular automata (self sorting) biome code in place. Then snow and desert will never touch

and it's output looks very similar to that blobby image above that someone posted (already tested in a test project).

 

[Gareee]

Ok, our mp experience was a lot different than my earlier sp experience. Animals were plentiful enough for two players, terrain was a lot more consistent than patchwork, and we found a town on day 2.

I must have just had a bad dice roll, but my feelings about the anvil are still valid. There isn't any reason the gare it because the really significant uses for it like iron tools and ammo are already gated by the intellegence levels and its perks, the only thing not gated is iron arrowheads, and not having access to an anvil makes finding working forges almost worthless, much like the workbench because its uses areall gated by perks somewhere.

This gives us less reason to visit trader like we started doing with earlier a17 experimentals. It also devalues finding working workstations, because you cant really use most of the functionality of them anyway, and by the time you can, you've also unlocked the capability of making those same workstations.

The only one of value finding now early game is the cement mixer.

 

[casperinmd]

Are you kidding me? It’s a mistake you big moron. They’ve already stated they went too far and will be pulling it back. How about approaching the experimental builds you voluntarily downloaded with a degree of restraint and give the developers the benefit of the doubt? The harvest numbers are also off as well as the xp gains. So cool it.
Experimentation is going on here.

A f@@king Men @roland.

Skullpoker is what makes internet forums suck to be on....

 

[Gamida]

Lol yeh. That's reserved for Canadians.
And people from Florida.

Na uh. We can counts real good. I did multificajun in school.

And why do I feel you always substitute the word Canadians for Gamida.

 

[lord_ahriman]

You'll find the progression.xml file in : (your disk)\Program Files\steamapps\common\7 Days To Die\Data\Config

Look at the first attribute (Perception) :

[size=1]<attribute name="attPerception" name_key="attPerceptionName" desc_key="attPerceptionDesc" icon="ui_game_symbol_stealth">
       <level_requirements level="1"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints01"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="2"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints01"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="3"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints01"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="4"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints02"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="5"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints02"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="6"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints02"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="7"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints03"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="8"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints04"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="9"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints05"/></level_requirements>
       <level_requirements level="10"><requirement name="PlayerLevel" target="self" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqGenericPoints06"/></level_requirements>[/size]

You just have to modify the end of each line to have "reqGenericPoints01". But the game will become very easy after that. The ideal, in my opinion, is to keep the value "02" from the fourth line to the last.

You have to make this changes for the following 4 attributes.

I think the points required are really made for cooperation. In solo it's a lot less interesting, especially when you play with a high difficulty.

Thanks. Yes, it would be too easy, but I'll play like B221, i.e., lvl gates. It means I can only have forge lvl 20, steel lvl 60 and so on. This way I can make some good progress and not being punished by the new B231/233 system.

 

[8bitkronik]

Sure, and sorry about my overly-blunt post. I'm a little irritated with the tone of this forum also. Not that my irritation really matters.
...

Thank you for all the help and time you have shared. I just recently found out I walked into a minefield lol

 

[LilMissNorti]

I'm new to the world editor, so I don't know the names of all these things (and I'm at work). Press ESC, click the second tab in the panel to the right (called "Level 1" something), then there is an option near the top that says something like "highlight trader teleport." It makes all the traders highlighted with purple boxes. Very easy to spot from a distance.

Thanks, I did not know about that one. I really wish there was some documentation on the map previewer.

so do we

*raises hand to offer services to write up documentation stuffs, wikis and other information cos I have no life/am sucker for punishment/need yet more reasons to play 7 Days to Die*

 

[x_Mùffيns_x]

look, i been playing this game for a grip.. and i hate the whiners and what not, i support you guys taking ur time and im proud of ur work, but this last update.... wtf? was it even tested? who would gen a map like that and look at it and say.. " looks good, drop it on em, they'll love it." right now this is unplayable untill updated again, the map gen is sooo messed up, id rather go back. i cant play on this. and i dont wanna play navesgane, i mean its cool and all, but how many times can you play the same map? really? please do something fast, roll back or update or something, the biomes are waaay out of wack, and on top of each other and everything, floating trees and cacti everywhere, snow in the desert? i mean just gen one and look at it. please.

 

[LilMissNorti]

I do notice a lot of posts saying they HATE this RWG. But those posts are worthless for feedback because the current implementation is not intended as the new direction. The pregenerated maps is brand new and Kinyajuu is trying to get RWG back up to par using this new feature. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if when he's done there won't be an option to choose North to South static snow to desert style maps or full patchwork random biome style maps. Probably a good question to ask and see what response we might get rather than ranting about backtracking.

THIS...ALL OF THIS!!!!!!

Like I've spent most of today reading through last night's pages of everyone's quibbles on what is the definition of "random" and this right here is like the lightbulb moment. With all the other adjustments and tweaks and settings we now have access to over A16 in our game setup (BTW Roland, you only mention zombie speeds...there are others too like loot abundance, shared XP range for parties etc )

I'm not advocating for one way or the other, but being offered a choice...THAT is super cool man!

- - - Updated - - -

You seem to be one of the few who's responses I see are genuine. Thank you for all your time and effort.

Oh your poor misguided fool...

Roland can bring out these pearls of wisdom, but for the most part he's not called "Trolland" for no reason.

And as someone else mentioned further down, all the Devs, Testers and Staff at TFP generally do listen and respond to feedback genuinely. It's only when provoked that they descend into sarcasm and retorts

 

[LilMissNorti]

pffft!and aussies

Hey....just cos you lot seem to have a particular aversion to the letter 'u' (colour, neighbour, armour etc).

 

[FileMachete]

<snip><responding to 8bitKroniks comment to Roland>

Oh your poor misguided fool...

Roland can bring out these pearls of wisdom, but for the most part he's not called "Trolland" for no reason.

lmao -perfect- LilMissNorti! I'd even go so far as to imagine Roland reading 8bits post and immediately making a note, while grinning a shark toothed grin

 

[LilMissNorti]

lmao -perfect- LilMissNorti! I'd even go so far as to imagine Roland reading 8bits post and immediately making a note, while grinning a shark toothed grin

IKR!!!

Maybe this is why his profile pics are so stoic...I cannot but help picture any smile now not being one like 'Bruce' in Finding Nemo.

 

[FileMachete]

IKR!!!
Maybe this is why his profile pics are so stoic...I cannot but help picture any smile now not being one like 'Bruce' in Finding Nemo.

Ha!! Yes indeedy Paging LuckyStar, paging LuckyStar! We need a gif here asap Good Sir!