PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gareee]

Why the f is desert mixed in with snow... Like there's patches of snow in desert. WHAT

There has been snow in deserts in real life, you know?

https://www.google.com/search?q=snow+in+desert&num=20&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS814US814&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF4qqmrqzfAhXtct8KHemsDeYQ_AUIDigB&biw=1920&bih=978

 

[Frotus]

I love the new ground texture and hope it never changes! it looks SO much better than it did previously! I do agree though that it looks like our point of view when standing has been lowered a bit, and needs to be raised back up.
- - - Updated - - -

We ARE supposed to wipe between experimentals unless told its ok not to so that isn't a valid test. HOWEVER if you are placing a frame, it will cover up the top half of refrigerators now, so there is something odd going on with them.

Place 3 blocks stacked

On the face of the top block, place wood spikes

Walk next to the bottom block

Now tell me you think our POV should be raised up.. I think they lowered it to the correct position, so now it seems too low, but only when compared to before.

 

[Guppycur]

@dev_team

...with the trend going towards "make every poi a dungeon crawl", have y'all considered KEEPING the "plain" copies and only turning them into crawls when they become a quest poi?

house_blue changes to house_blue_crawl or something?

Best of both worlds, and it wouldn't be so damn weird seeing EVERY building as a crawl...

 

[Jedo]

For comparison, here is one I generated today with the current build:

The idea is fair; and for the record, that's not the worst map. I could work with that one (aside from the lack of cities).

 

[Gareee]

The map changes were one of my most hated features of A17 and I am glad they are going back to RWG actually being random. The same map layout every seed killed replayability. The biomes need to be bigger, and poi's fixed to not spawn oddly, but experimental is experimental. The map needs to be bigger as well, but we can already make it bigger just have long load times. But this last step on RWG is a huge step in the right direction IMO. Mountains seem to be creeping back in and I don't want snow north and desert south every single time in a randomly generated world. That is boring. A16 maps were much better IMO. Take an A16 map, add new poi's, and tinker with the roads and it would have been great.

Pretty much agreed.. and the new colors and textures from mixed biomes compliment each other a LOT visually!

I do agree biomes should be larger, maybe also with large blending zones. Stumbling through the woods I stopped for a birdnest, and on the 3 wasteland blocks next to me I noticed a hubcap mine!

With so many mini scattered biome blocks, things like mines are too easy to miss and stumble onto. You expect them in the wasteland, not in a forest.

 

[Jedo]

@dev_team
...with the trend going towards "make every poi a dungeon crawl", have y'all considered KEEPING the "plain" copies and only turning them into crawls when they become a quest poi?

house_blue changes to house_blue_crawl or something?

Best of both worlds, and it wouldn't be so damn weird seeing EVERY building as a crawl...

It might help if you just view this as a post-apocalyptic Hunger Games. The Gamemasters just want us to die. They trigger wandering hordes and dog hordes, they make the buildings deathtraps, they make unrealistic biome spawns in order to make life difficult, and even the radiation zone is a boundary to keep us in the "playing area."

Edit: Forgot to add that the 7th Day Bloodmoon Hordes are yet another of their mechanics meant to push us to the limits.

 

[monkeyboy275]

Attacking people, even in retaliation, is pointless. It's also pointless to claim "victim". It's pointless to use strawman arguments. A lot of peoples behavior is pointless and non-productive, yet people still do it.
People need thicker skins. Damn thin-skins are ruining it for everybody! =)

Thats just another way you try to implement im just cying around.

I can handle random people on the internet calling me whatever they want and thinking about me whatever they want, no problem with that. I just see that some get bashed for no reason and point it out. Cause i would prefer people to actually discussing the game.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Jesus Christ on a stick. I can't wait until these forums get out of experimental, this WIP is rough. I just dabbed some blood from my eyes.

 

[Perlin_Worm]

I am firmly in the camp of north/snow south/desert as a loose principle but with much greater RWG variety. A splattering of micro biomes all over the place feels really off. I am competent TFP will make the right decisions and tweaks.

 

[Guppycur]

Thats just another way you try to implement im just cying around.
I can handle random people on the internet calling me whatever they want and thinking about me whatever they want, no problem with that. I just see that some get bashed for no reason and point it out. Cause i would prefer people to actually discussing the game.

I think this'll be my first, maybe my second, post directed specifically at you.

...what in God's name are you talking about?

 

[wolffblood]

I think if I tear down the reasoning behind why I don't like the widely sporadic biomes, it boils down to the cold/burning issue between a short distance. There, in ours, or in 99% of most fictional worlds, you wouldn't see burning sand and desert beside one another. The North/South thing is a valid thing, but everyone truly wants a spattering of biomes there may be a compromise.
Perhaps they could set it so snow doesn't generate beside desert? Treat biome assignment like a "hot spot" generation, where areas are randomly selected for desert, and as you get further away from that area you get green forest areas.. even further from that hot spot you get snowy areas. Then, once the initial areas are selected, disperse random spots of burning/wasteland areas throughout the forest. Depending on the scale of the map, or the procedural rolls of the dice, you could get several hot spots in various sizes that would create a less drastic landscape. See below for quick visualization

View attachment 26435

Anyway, that was you get a more diverse mix without the temperature gripes.

For comparison, here is one I generated today with the current build:

View attachment 26436

I'd love that idea. Yeah, I'm one that doesn't like the biomes being all random, it just seems so weird and just doesn't fit together. I know I'm odd, but the aesthetics of it all just annoys me to no end, lol. BUUUUT, since we can just take the png and color it ourselves, once it goes stable, I'll probably make one for everything else to be random, then just color it as I want, lol. Will have to find that post again about how to do that.

 

[Guppycur]

I am firmly in the camp of north/snow south/desert as a loose principle but with much greater RWG variety. A splattering of micro biomes all over the place feels really off. I am competent TFP will make the right decisions and tweaks.

I think it was the combination of removing 2 biomes completely, the smaller map size, and not having larger buildings spawn that caused such a ruckus about "crappy rwg". I doubt biome placement was a big factor at all.

In fact, I believe that if RWG size was still large, the two missing biomes were returned, and big buildings would spawn again, not much would have even been said about snow being in the north and desert in the south...

Hell, they've switched up where snow and desert spawn about 6 times now with little to no trumpeting.

 

[Gareee]

A17 introduces the first iteration of a new random world generation system. People complain because it's not perfect the first time.
The devs explain they are working on it throughout experimental.

People complain.

Complaining consist of stating what is not finished yet, and complaining that it is not finished yet, and expecting new systems to work straight out of the box.

Well said, Gupmeister!

Maybe there needs to be a gated experimental feedback forum, and people just not "getting it" should be bounced?

I'm seeing a buttload of people using the bug report thread not using the form, and a bunch of people replying in this thread that sound like they've never heard of experimental builds and how they should be used. Using a legacy save and reporting bugs in a new build should be an auto boot from experimental feedback.

The replies on FP posts on Facebook are looking a LOT like this type of chatter here.

That doesn't mean people who have issues with some of the game's direction (Like Jax) should be booted from it.. they offer valuable insight. But it feels like half the posts of late are from people who just shouldn't even be trying the experimental.

It could be the typical holiday angst, or maybe we need some restriction on exp member posts to filter out things those things that aren't helpful to experimental development at all.

 

[monkeyboy275]

I did not call you a whiney crybaby. I simply offered an alternative reason why someone told you to "shut up and play" from the one you insisted absolutely had to be the reason. If I was going to call you a name, I guarantee it would not be something so benign. So, no, I did not directly attack you, but you sure did attack me.

Thats the hypocrisy im talking about. You should at least have the balls to admit that you did try to directly offend me there and take the reaction you got. But instead you make a drama out of how mean i were to you.

I know im getting called a ♥♥♥♥♥ for that again but it is what it is.

 

[Hek Harris]

I wonder how many have really tried this version before coming here to explain how bad it is.

I did it.

Settings: Zombies run during the day, sprint at night, survivalist, 90 min / day, dead is dead.

And it was anything but easy.

Sometimes, and that's what I love more than anything in random generation, everything goes wrong.

I started at the edge of the map (irradiated a few seconds) and after the main quest, I learned that the first trader was more than 2 km away. I was in a "forest" biome , but I decided to start the journey. Not found a single bottle of clean water, only dirty, which I finally drank (a lot...). Not a single pot (never happened before, no luck I tell you).

Attacked by a wolf, attacked by zombies furious, lacking stamina permanently - very difficult to manage, which I really appreciate.

After 20 minutes of rough battles, stealth and flee, I discover that I will have to cross the wasteland, its mines, its dogs. Honestly, I liked the idea of ​​a "logic" map, but to recover this random aspect is much more interesting.

I arrived at the merchant at 10 pm. Night fell, I did not have time to clean the surroundings, I died.

Too much precipitation (I should have stay in the forest). But a hardcore survival experience exactly as I expect it from this game.

So, my question : did you test it ?

(

- speedx5)

 

[Boldero]

@dev_team
...with the trend going towards "make every poi a dungeon crawl", have y'all considered KEEPING the "plain" copies and only turning them into crawls when they become a quest poi?

house_blue changes to house_blue_crawl or something?

Best of both worlds, and it wouldn't be so damn weird seeing EVERY building as a crawl...

As much as I hate agreeing with Guppycur, THIS!!!!

 

[Erik Louden]

@dev_team
...with the trend going towards "make every poi a dungeon crawl", have y'all considered KEEPING the "plain" copies and only turning them into crawls when they become a quest poi?

house_blue changes to house_blue_crawl or something?

Best of both worlds, and it wouldn't be so damn weird seeing EVERY building as a crawl...

I like this idea.

 

[Thecolours]

It would be cool if we got an xp bonus for clearing a poi dungeon of all the zombies. Something like 1000-1500xp.

 

[Gnomaana]

This guy is stating his opinion and you come out and say he made errors and he needs to correct them? That's laughable. Sad to know we have trolls in here.

Did you hear that whooosh sound?

 

[Benjiro]

And to put an exclamation point on my last post, I think it would benefit you and the Pimps well to look at other forms of feedback. A great case in point is the new random gen. Once again we are back to the ugly mish mash of biomes with no rhyme or reason from 16 (see a trend here with everything being reverted back to A16 standards).

Jax, its all part of the master plan.

First they introduce a feature that needs work but is usable. Then after people complain about issues that need fixed, they revert it to the old way. When people complain more, they put back the original work. And people are happy because its better. And those issues get swiped under the rug.

And Jax, i read your long post. Yes, the game needs to be hard but also REWARDING.

I personally have a issue with several changes in A17, because they make little sense. People like you who did the Ravenhearst True survival or Starvation already fixed a lot of the progression issues with A16.

But i can not forgive TFPs for content wise wasting 16 months on no real content, when guy like you added content to the game even in A16. Be it more complex crafting, more components, more realistic crafting, more reasons to actually go out to loot!!!!

This has not changed in A17. No matter how much TFPs slow do the progression with gates ( now gone ), it was the content what drove people. Survival, gather, build, gather more, make a pimping zombie proof palace with all the necessities for a luxurious life in the Zombie Apocalypse.

A17 is BORING after the first game week. Just like how A16 Vanilla was boring after the first week. The POIs create time sinks that stretch the game out a bit longer. The gates simply locked content behind grind fest but that is it.

In A16 you had a few goals. Mini bike book, Base, Forge, Advanced tooling. A17 it became about Levels, Levels, Levels because those are what you want to unlock everything. Bookcases are useless. Its all about Zombie killing, the biggest XP bonus system in the game ( even with the reduced XP now ). And Traders ... the biggest exploit in-game now.

Make me feel like my survivor actually matters! You like the new skill system Jax, good for you. I dislike how everybody feels the same. How the emotional attachment to your character becomes zero because its all about XP leveling like a lot of dumb down games. And yes, A17 is massive dumbed down ( < this is what most people will take offense with when posting this blog of text ).

A17:




A17 simply gives you no goals beyond surviving the first week ( imho ).

I want advanced crafting tools... Electricity that means something ( Think Subnautica! ), where your end tools are electrical based with batteries. Where i need to go out and find components for my base. Where i can find survivors so protecting my base actually means something!!!

The game GPSing on you during Blood moon is ridiculous, because people simple build two bases. It defeated the whole base / survive aspect. Let the game determine where my base is ( forges, chests, loot, time spend ) and send hords to those locations to break them down if you do not defend them! Losing a Blood moon base does not hurt as much as losing your forges and loot ( and survivors if NPS actually made it ingame! ).

That is how you make a game better Jax, like most modders tried to do. All the rest is noise, that distracts from this lacking goal, content and ... well, the little the game improved after all these years. Yes, i am not discounting the AI and graphical updates but content wise, the game really has not improved beyond electricity in A16. It has even been going backward with losing dynamic caves and other stripped features because of "balancing reasons".

A17 is being rebalanced again. Good ... but boy is it a wast of time to again balance a bunch of features that are easy to predict as unpopular. I can probably see my grandchildren in 15 years play A36 with a lack of content. *lol* ... Its more annoying to see how much Modders did with A16 and how much is undone again.

At some point TFPs need to stop changing the game and provide modders the tools to overhaul the game! Add content to support the modders, Have modders gain more access to deeper systems, add new content that modders can integrate because in my opinion, TFPs do not really understand what the players want. And have mods become a way to "sell" the game features. Even maybe pay modders!

You like cruel, go with X mod. You like more survival, go with Y mod. But these constant overhauls simply destroy every mod that is made ( and keep doing it until the modders are fed up redoing all the work in every release ). And that is a shame!