PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Red Eagle LXIX]

We're still tuning things in. I'd noticed somewhere along the way that hunger became a complete non issue so we made an adjustment yesterday and might need time to get it just right.

Not sure how you define non-issue, but requiring 55+ raw meat (11+ charred)(the 5+ bottled water seemed about right) for a single active day {60min} of digging (with 1 rank in Slow Metabolism on b221) seems excessive. That is multiple deer/boars/wolves. Of course with the changes to slow metabolism for b231 I expect that will require even more.

Only a non-issue when focusing mostly/solely on killing (which seems to be the way we're heading).

 

[lord_ahriman]

So grind for materials is almost useless again because xp gain is way too low? I was lvlling up reasonably by grinding for materials and building in B221, but now is way too low again.

 

[wolffblood]

Not sure how you define non-issue, but requiring 55+ raw meat (11+ charred) for a single active day {60min} of digging (with 1 rank in Slow Metabolism on b221) seems excessive. That is multiple deer/boars/wolves.Only a non-issue when focusing mostly/solely on killing (which seems to be the way we're heading).

Seems more like a focus on hunting animals than killing. If I'm lucky I can find 2 animals in a full day. They seem so scarce for me that I typically have to search for farms with boars. Until RWG is fixed to what it was (just meaning with skyscrapers, etc.) I will just stick with Navezgane. I have to rush over to Bob's Boars for meat, and will never see an animal on the way and that's even if I start in desert, snow, wherever.

 

[MonggolKhan]

Not sure how you define non-issue, but requiring 55+ raw meat (11+ charred)(the 5+ bottled water seemed about right) for a single active day {60min} of digging (with 1 rank in Slow Metabolism on b221) seems excessive. That is multiple deer/boars/wolves. Of course with the changes to slow metabolism for b231 I expect that will require even more.Only a non-issue when focusing mostly/solely on killing (which seems to be the way we're heading).

I just put 1 point in slow metabolism and master chef and I'll be good for until it's not an issue anymore. Food is no prob. just find a cooking pot, kill animals you find and get eggs from nests. I never had a strong need to hunt for animals.

Look how much food I got on Day 2.

https://imgur.com/a/ALBudml

 

[Jamie87]

Loving the new build much better fps now keep up the good work

 

[DaVegaNL]

I just put 1 point in slow metabolism and master chef and I'll be good for until it's not an issue anymore. Food is no prob. just find a cooking pot, kill animals you find and get eggs from nests. I never had a strong need to hunt for animals.

So far, on day 1, I've eaten 1 can of chili, 1 can of pears, 1 beef ration, 10 raw eggs, 10 snowberries, and 2 grilled meat. I'm currently at 83 stamina.

Food drainage is off the chart.

 

[wolffblood]

I just put 1 point in slow metabolism and master chef and I'll be good for until it's not an issue anymore. Food is no prob. just find a cooking pot, kill animals you find and get eggs from nests. I never had a strong need to hunt for animals.
Look how much food I got on Day 2.

https://imgur.com/a/ALBudml

glad you get food that easy, lol. I'm lucky to find 1 animal a day, and maybe 1 egg in every 10 nests. And that's at 100% loot abundance.

 

[archergod]

Not sure I am interested in commenting on perk system yet. All the changes are too complex for season player like me. I am just using whatever is available and keep me alive.

But Really see a major FPS increase. I say 20-25% from previous build. So, Good job. And on my laptop graphics looks much cleaner now. I like them, maybe it is the effect of those reflection changes. Whatever it is don't destory it .

 

[MonggolKhan]

So far, on day 1, I've eaten 1 can of chili, 1 can of pears, 1 beef ration, 10 raw eggs, 10 snowberries, and 2 grilled meat. I'm currently at 83 stamina.
Food drainage is off the chart.

I never char or grill my meat. I always make bacon and eggs and that gets me through days. First thing I always look for when I start a game is a cooking pot.

 

[icehot]

We're still tuning things in. I'd noticed somewhere along the way that hunger became a complete non issue so we made an adjustment yesterday and might need time to get it just right.

I think hunger is a bit much now, I've just had to eat around 10 bacon and eggs in 1 day, even a lumber jack wouldn't need that many calories - water could be toned down a little as well, but just a little, I can understand being more thirsty than hungry.

 

[Gazz]

Forge for example, is useless without recipes that exceed what we can build on the fly ... Make those more challenging. More mats, require books or some other attribute that you did NOT just dump your points into to get the forge... Anything is better than level gates.

At the risk of agreeing with Guppy... yeah, basically.

We are quite happy with the overall cost structure but fine tuning will certainly be needed.

Random gen drops to build tools... meh. Kinda goes against the premise. =)

Another tier of Crude Iron Tools? Meh. That only waters down the tool progression because the same spread from min to max would have to be split 4 ways instead of 3 ways. No real improvement there.

Iron tool recipes requiring nails?

Easy one. Then making tools does require an anvil... which can become more expensive.

That would be a start.

Honestly I think is pretty nicely balanced. I wont be forging on day 1 but I can see the arguments. But at the end of the day 7 skill points not being spent for what, an iron axe, and that's for attacking. Pick and shovel not needed, I wont be farming mats with so many juicy exp bags out there to kill. Iron armor without mods or perks is bad.

The fact there there is such a heated discussion tell me that yep, it's working.

 

[madmole]

Several choices personally:- (not necessarily in order, but first 7 points used could be)
(1) Boom! Headshot, Lucky Looter, Sexy Rexy, Pack Mule, Healing, Cardio, Chef

- if no cook pot found, swap chef for metabolism to get more out of what food/drink you are finding

- wanna play a bit more cautious, swap cardio for hidden strike, and crouch shoot for first attack

(2) Perception, Perception, Lucky Looter, Lucky Looter, Pack Mule, Better Barter, Motherlode

- why build a forge when you can get better loot, and sell it for more, to buy better loot

- if really unlucky enough not to get iron pick and fireaxe from first days looting, swap motherlode out for hidden strike, and use first night to kill rather than mine

Now don't get me wrong, being able to forge iron before day 7 horde makes a huge difference, and getting the ability to build forges yourself rather than finding them is definitely important, but to claim that it is the strongest way to spend your first 7 perk points seems to me to actually be a weaker strategy than many other choices.

You can find harvest those concrete bags now for concrete mix and upgrade your brick base to concrete without any forge too, and traders sell concrete mix, its pretty cheap.

 

[Drithyl]

The one thing that bothers me about forges is not when they can be unlocked, but the fact that the anvil is a pointless tool. If you have the forge, you have the anvil. In practice, it does not gate anything behind it because it doesn't take any significant effort to obtain it, so its existence is more confusing than it is useful. I don't even know what recipes require an anvil because the anvil is the first thing you forge.

If the anvil was made into / replaced by a tool that gates certain key recipes (like forged iron) behind it while simultaneously taking some work to obtain it, then you'd have a multi-tiered forge, and just getting a forge would not necessarily be a big deal. Otherwise, it's best removed from the game.

Haven't played the build yet, but regarding the high food and drink requirements now, I think that no matter how those values are tweaked, they're only going to affect the first few days of the game. Food and water will always be a non-issue down the line, unless something different changes (like how we cook food or boil water), because eventually you'll get a farm that's self-sustaining and an infinite source of water with dozens of jars to use. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that food and water become a non-issue is a matter of opinion. It boils down to (see what I did there?) how much focus on the survival aspects of the game the devs want during the later game stages.

 

[Maynard69]

really? animals are more scarce for me now than previously. I've had to scavenge like crazy for food and rush boar farms. It's a bit crazy. So this change will hurt me more due to lack of animals, hmmmm. Though have to hopefully get a hoe early on and start farming quickly, lol.
Also, tier POIs, is that mainly for POIs available to be a quest or is there actual tiers? I thought at first it was actual hardness of a POI, however, I haven't seemed to find anything difficult, even hospitals, just take longer to get through is all.

Every time I travel, I run into atleast 1 wolf, and maybe a boar or non-aggro animal. The first few days are always alot of travel for me also so I get a decent stockpile of meat. I guess if I was unlucky, I would just have to spend some dukes instead of trying to buy eyewear/clothes and mods at the trader asap. Also wolf packs come often (atleast in the last exp)

 

[wolffblood]

Every time I travel, I run into atleast 1 wolf, and maybe a boar or non-aggro animal. The first few days are always alot of travel for me also so I get a decent stockpile of meat. I guess if I was unlucky, I would just have to spend some dukes instead of trying to buy eyewear/clothes and mods at the trader asap. Also wolf packs come often (atleast in the last exp)

Hmmmm, I rarely find even wolves now, lol. Used to be a lot till last build. Maybe it'll change this one? And never ran into a wolf pack in experimental as of yet. Also, since last build, I've yet to run into a wandering horde by day 7. I do play SP, so I know there's that higher percentage one won't spawn, but man, am I unlucky. I'd very much like to see one, lol.

 

[DaVegaNL]

Not sure I am interested in commenting on perk system yet. All the changes are too complex for season player like me. I am just using whatever is available and keep me alive.
But Really see a major FPS increase. I say 20-25% from previous build. So, Good job. And on my laptop graphics looks much cleaner now. I like them, maybe it is the effect of those reflection changes. Whatever it is don't destory it .

I second this. The game is running much smoother now!

 

[wolffblood]

Well, tonight I'll get to play for an hour or so, so I'll be able to find out then. If only for sanity of experimental and fine tuning, I may increase loot abundance to 150% for now.

 

[Tin]

Not sure how you define non-issue, but requiring 55+ raw meat (11+ charred)(the 5+ bottled water seemed about right) for a single active day {60min} of digging (with 1 rank in Slow Metabolism on b221) seems excessive. That is multiple deer/boars/wolves. Of course with the changes to slow metabolism for b231 I expect that will require even more.Only a non-issue when focusing mostly/solely on killing (which seems to be the way we're heading).

imo I think its getting a little bit overboard, and broaching too far on the gamey side, with how many units of raw meat it takes to make a single consumable food atm. I would love to see them dial it back some, so it doesn't feel like you're needing, and eating, a meat locker full of raw meat like that.

I think they could add something like "Tainted Meat" to all the animals harvest, and dial back the amount of raw meat you get, then adjust the recipes in needing less, but still maintain the their effectiveness when consumed. It would still maintain the need to hunt just as much as we currently do, with the same results.

It could also lead into another perk segment "Field Dressing" they can add, that makes the amount of 'tainted' meat less, and the raw 'Viable' meat more, as you put more points into it.

It could also give that much more of a feeling, their 7d2d universe, is that much more messed up, if animals were also drastically affected by the change that brought about the Zombie Apocalypse.

Again just my opinion, still think the game overall is great to play.

 

[SickoBasterd]

Can confirm that fps is way better than prevoius experimental builds.

Keep up the good work. Stable for christmas, gogogogo

 

[iBane]

We're still tuning things in. I'd noticed somewhere along the way that hunger became a complete non issue so we made an adjustment yesterday and might need time to get it just right.

The one thing I don't like about the current hunger/food system is waiting until you're appropriately hungry to eat (and just living with the stamina penalty) so you don't waste food.

Understand that being able to overeat isn't an ideal mechanic, but it's annoying that using high quality food like bacon and eggs requires you live with 20%, 30%, stamina losses unless you waste a significant portion of the food value. Doesn't seem ideal either.