PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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JaxTeller718
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Why because YOU cant do it babycakes?
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Don't pay any mind, casuals love to bully people with their opinions on making gameplay simpler and easier to access, usually to the point that a game becomes a former shell of itself. Seen it so many times in EA and so far this one had been able to avoid these pitfalls. HAD been.
Drithyl
New member
Oh, here we go, someone throwing around the term "casuals". Is this gonna turn into a civil war between "casuals" and "hardcore players", or however you want to call yourself? That doesn't help anyone and is honestly childish. Different people will play differently and not everyone has to be a hardcore professional player to be allowed to enjoy a game. It is precisely because games have reached a wider audience that the game industry has grown and that we have the chance to have indie gems like this one see the light on a more regular basis.
If the devs had to update their game to increase its difficulty each time a new player beats the challenge, it would be neverending (I'm sure that would please these players, but I doubt the devs would want to get stuck doing that). There's no reason why a game can't cater to casuals (lower difficulties) while also raising the bar for hardcore players. For anything beyond, though, there's mods. There's always going to be someone who finds it too easy, no matter how many levels of difficulty or options the devs add. It's much simpler for them to design a reasonable number of difficulties and to delegate the most hardcore experiences to modders like you.
canadianbluebeer
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They seem to like arrows. The bacon pincushion effect was amusing. (4 arrows sticking out of him when he died, but took 8 to kill it)
Thick skin indeed.
I made a calculation where 1% fullness is max stamina multiplied by 1. Your experiment showed that if it works like I assumed, 1% fullness would be max stamina multiplied by 3.75.
But it really doesn't matter if we calculate with 1 or 3.75, the result will be exactly the same: With 130 max stamina you have 50% more stamina at your disposal.
With 1 it was just easier to calculate. Mmmh, time for a practical experiment. Will be back in half an hour with some results I hope
SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
The funny thing - he thinks people are "casual" because they think gun parts are stupid. LOL! I can probably wipe the floor with him in 50 different shooters but since I don't like gun parts I'm "casual". He is a tough guy because he made a mod I guess.
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Drithyl
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I ran a test to double-check (I have been playing A17E, thank you very much, just didn't really focus on figuring out how that worked so far), and 20 minutes into a fresh game without moving and neither hunger nor the stamina cap got lowered. I didn't know you couldn't die of hunger if you just sat still.
Then I walked around for a few minutes, which doesn't consume stamina, and again, neither the cap nor hunger went down at all, still at 100.
Then I ran for a few stamina bars, and both food and stamina cap went down, although not exactly by the same amount (stamina cap seemed to be lower than hunger by 1 for every other run, which could either mean that it's not hunger that lowers the cap, or that there's some decimal rounding: https://imgur.com/a/XLLGhQE).
Either way, coming back to your initial question of what's the point of raising stamina: there's still a point. It might degrade at the same rate even with higher stamina, but you still get the advantage of longer stamina bursts without having to wait for it to be restored, i.e. less total waiting time (which can save your life when running away from something, for instance, and makes gathering less grindy).
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The best way to prevent things devolving into a "you're more casual than me" or "you're a masochist because you're hardcore" or something like that isn't exactly to taunt people saying you can wipe the floor with them in 50 different shooters. Your attitude is just as childish as his.
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FileMachete
New member
Not sure I'm fully understanding what you guys are discussing but maybe these pics are useful?
After resting. Stamina is as high at it will go.
After resting. Stamina is as high at it will go.
wolffblood
New member
I'd have to do tests myself (not sure when I could), but I thought it was
current max stam = total max stam * food
so say 50% food, it'd be
50 current max if total max is 100,
100 current max if total max is 200,
etc etc etc
so 87% (from picture above), it'd be
87 current max if total max is 100,
174 current max if total is 200.
etc etc etc
It always seems the current max will drop faster the higher your total max is, however, it means you can do actions longer regardless. Thing is, I don't know the relation of how quick food drops. Will it drop faster with higher total max stam due to not having to stop as often to wait for it to come back? Or does it drop equal rates? If so, it's still seems worse when you drop current max stam so much faster the higher your total stam since all we really see right off is the integer drops being larger instead of percentages.
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btw, is there a way to increase general stam regen over the 10/s?
current max stam = total max stam * food
so say 50% food, it'd be
50 current max if total max is 100,
100 current max if total max is 200,
etc etc etc
so 87% (from picture above), it'd be
87 current max if total max is 100,
174 current max if total is 200.
etc etc etc
It always seems the current max will drop faster the higher your total max is, however, it means you can do actions longer regardless. Thing is, I don't know the relation of how quick food drops. Will it drop faster with higher total max stam due to not having to stop as often to wait for it to come back? Or does it drop equal rates? If so, it's still seems worse when you drop current max stam so much faster the higher your total stam since all we really see right off is the integer drops being larger instead of percentages.
---added---
btw, is there a way to increase general stam regen over the 10/s?
You are correct. Higher max stamina is useful, especially dealing with groups of ferals.
I wanted to point out that with a higher max stamina there is a higher penalty for actually using stamina and getting hungry.
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Correct, this is what I'm talking about. That food (fullness) sets the usable stamina cap. I don't want to use "max stamina" term as it's already used.
What it boils down, is the "simple" system isn't so simple, and doesn't work as expected. Also it's heavily penalizes players on both ends.
On top of that, the only ways to increase stamina regeneration are all temporary with heavy consequences. And none of the perks actually affects base stamina regeneration.
On top of that, the only ways to increase stamina regeneration are all temporary with heavy consequences. And none of the perks actually affects base stamina regeneration.
FileMachete
New member
Quick Mining test of Stone Axe vs. Iron Pickaxe showed;
{Att:Strength=lvl-4, Miner 69er=lvl-2, Mother Lode=lvl-2}
Stone Axe: 34 Stone, 1 Iron Ore <-- Normal swings. 25 hits per block.
Iron Pickaxe: 67 Stone, 2 Iron Ore <-- No Power Attacks, normal swings. 22 hits per block.
Iron Pickaxe: 67 Stone, 2 Iron Ore <-- All Power Attacks. 8 hits per block.
With current Perks, and Food/Water at ~100, was able to fully harvest 500hp stone blocks without swing being paused due to 'Out of Stamina'. Was right at the edge though.
Too close to be sure but mining three blocks in a row seemed like a wash time-wise between normal & power-attacks with Iron Pickaxe. Only noticable 'better-ness' is lower Repair material cost using power-attacks.
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And digging into it you trigger the hidden DeBuff, "Migraine!"
{Att:Strength=lvl-4, Miner 69er=lvl-2, Mother Lode=lvl-2}
Stone Axe: 34 Stone, 1 Iron Ore <-- Normal swings. 25 hits per block.
Iron Pickaxe: 67 Stone, 2 Iron Ore <-- No Power Attacks, normal swings. 22 hits per block.
Iron Pickaxe: 67 Stone, 2 Iron Ore <-- All Power Attacks. 8 hits per block.
With current Perks, and Food/Water at ~100, was able to fully harvest 500hp stone blocks without swing being paused due to 'Out of Stamina'. Was right at the edge though.
Too close to be sure but mining three blocks in a row seemed like a wash time-wise between normal & power-attacks with Iron Pickaxe. Only noticable 'better-ness' is lower Repair material cost using power-attacks.
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Yep, pretty much
And digging into it you trigger the hidden DeBuff, "Migraine!"
Ok, made a practical test now:
Started a new game to be exactly at max stamina, used creative mode to get a steel pickaxe and xp if necessary. Then power-swung the pickaxe a number of times in the air until my food was at 97. The third time I did nothing for about the same time I needed for the other tests. Here are the results:
Test 100:
Start with 100 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes and 16 swings reached 97 max Stamina and 97 Food
Test 130:
Start with 130 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes and 20 swings reached 126 max Stamina and 97 Food
Test Zero:
Start with 100 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes doing nothing still had 100 max Stamina and 100 Food
Results:
1) Do nothing and you will consume (practically) nothing. See also Drithyls 20 minutes of doing nothing showed the same over a much longer duration
2) If you have 130 stamina instead of 100 stamina you (obviously) can spend 30% more stamina before being exhausted. But above shows that you also can make slightly more total swings for 3% food and you obviously have A LOT more swings you can do until you reach 97 max Stamina.
3) Since the total swings for 3% food at 130 max Stamina is roughly 16% more, your metabolism is actually burning food 16% more effectively than with 100 max Stamina.
BUT:
Since stamina usage per swing might be random, the 16% above could be just random fluctuation. Multiple tests would be necessary to make this really stick, but thats enough testing from me.
BUTBUT: Whether the 16% are there or not, you still have two advantages from 130 stamina and not a single disadvantage!
Started a new game to be exactly at max stamina, used creative mode to get a steel pickaxe and xp if necessary. Then power-swung the pickaxe a number of times in the air until my food was at 97. The third time I did nothing for about the same time I needed for the other tests. Here are the results:
Test 100:
Start with 100 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes and 16 swings reached 97 max Stamina and 97 Food
Test 130:
Start with 130 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes and 20 swings reached 126 max Stamina and 97 Food
Test Zero:
Start with 100 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes doing nothing still had 100 max Stamina and 100 Food
Results:
1) Do nothing and you will consume (practically) nothing. See also Drithyls 20 minutes of doing nothing showed the same over a much longer duration
2) If you have 130 stamina instead of 100 stamina you (obviously) can spend 30% more stamina before being exhausted. But above shows that you also can make slightly more total swings for 3% food and you obviously have A LOT more swings you can do until you reach 97 max Stamina.
3) Since the total swings for 3% food at 130 max Stamina is roughly 16% more, your metabolism is actually burning food 16% more effectively than with 100 max Stamina.
BUT:
Since stamina usage per swing might be random, the 16% above could be just random fluctuation. Multiple tests would be necessary to make this really stick, but thats enough testing from me.
BUTBUT: Whether the 16% are there or not, you still have two advantages from 130 stamina and not a single disadvantage!
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ReDelicious
New member
Also legendary loot if that's still in the pipeline.
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