PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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JaxTeller718
New member
Mods are icing on a cake. What YOU should be all about are the perks. THAT is where your true power comes from, not mods.
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So you have to intentionally NOT build a horde base properly to get wrecked.
And this is supposed to be an example of how better that AI is? The fact remains its not difficult at ALL to combate a horde night. The only people who will struggle are the ones who hid on roofs.
SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
It will get my rocks off.
trielkee
New member
Regarding the blood moon horde night, is there a reason the horde is limited to a certain amount of zombies per night?
I know the amount of zombies is limited per player on the server, depending on the settings, but isn't it possible to make it so they keep spawning until 04:00?
In a few streams I watched A17 is the same as A16, they stop spawning after 01:00 if killed. Can't the game just keep spawning new zombies every hour or so? For example, there are 32 zombies (depending on settings) attacking, you kill 20 of them, and next hour 20 spawn in. So they keep spawning and filling the void until 04:00 when they stop spawning.
There are probably some good reasons for this, some limitations, but was just wondering.
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I know the amount of zombies is limited per player on the server, depending on the settings, but isn't it possible to make it so they keep spawning until 04:00?
In a few streams I watched A17 is the same as A16, they stop spawning after 01:00 if killed. Can't the game just keep spawning new zombies every hour or so? For example, there are 32 zombies (depending on settings) attacking, you kill 20 of them, and next hour 20 spawn in. So they keep spawning and filling the void until 04:00 when they stop spawning.
There are probably some good reasons for this, some limitations, but was just wondering.
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That I don't know, have not tested it.
Retsof123
New member
The OP question was regarding whether the zombies switched to destruct mode if they couldn't reach you through pathing. The answer is yes they do. Although, I must say there are a few bases being built that are using the pathing AI to game the zombies, Red Eagle for one. Nice work too, although must have taken him some time to build. Certainly not for first couple of horde nights anyway.
And you are correct, it's not difficult to combat a horde night, even easier for wandering hordes, even dogs and or fat woman, lol.
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Gareee
Tester
You seriously think they are going to dig out the old code they replaced and rewrite it to fit it back in after a year and a half of developement to put it back in because you don't like the change?
I'd say just go back to a16 if you like it so much, because they have bigger fish to fry.. like the game crashing, server issues, connection issues, performance issues, balancing, and completing the weapon and tool mods that aren't even in yet because they aren't done.
Looking at the list of things they hope to complete before Christmas, I don't think they could even consider looking at a massive change like this till spring next year at the earliest, and they've already said this is what they are happy with and what they are moving forward with.
Maybe you just need to make a mod with everything you want put back in?
trielkee
New member
Seeing as A17 has a ton of improvements I doubt he will go back to A16 just for the weapon parts, and I understand why it bothers him, noone likes to see a feature they like removed from the game, but I doubt they will ever consider bringing it back in, it just doesn't fit in anymore.
Gareee
Tester
Exactly. I really don't see much of a change other than that I'l looking for something different than before. You could combine crap in the workbench before so there wasn't really ANY hunting for high level guns.. you just made them from all the low level stuff you found.
Now you have to work harder to find high quality mods which could add a whole different type on gunplay.
I think we have to set realistic expectations which requests for changes.
Kind of like melee... I see where they are going, and asked for enhancements to it like a near miss perk, or or partial damage with a off target swing as long as you are in proximity. Those sound like additions to the new system instead of cutting it and going back to out of date code.
Another perk might be a multiple hit perk, where a melee swing could hit mutiple zombies for damage so long as they are in proximinty of the swing. More perk variety isn't a bad thing at all.
One thing I am noticing though is level gating on perks is hampering diverse play styles... for instance, I found all the minibike parts in looting on day one. The minibike building perk is gated behind intellegence, level 6, which is gated behind level 40.
I haven't cared either way if level gating is in or not but in this example, e can see that the level and perk gating combined is hampering more diverse gameplay. I should have been able to just unlock the minibike building perk, and after finding a working workbench, just assemble it.
That would make for a different earlier game, having the minibike, but with little capability to find fuel or craft it.
The same thing I think could also happen finding the hog, 4x4, or gyrocopter parts.
I do think the zombies are too easy in this last update, but xp from them feels fine.. if they were tougher again, getting that xp from them would be slower and tougher. I could turn up difficulty higher than nomad, but then I'd be getting more of the later game ferals spitting cops, irradiated and such as well.
Maybe we need two game settings in the menu for zombie difficulty instead of just 5 difficulty levels?
One for zombie strength and durability, and another for gamestage level adjustment? That way we could have just tougher zombies like 199, or easier zombies with more later stage iterations.
I think what is making people say that the zombie xp needs to be nerfed is because the xp gain is based on them being tougher in 199. If they are made easier, then the xp probably also needs to be adjusted down for balance, and visa versa if they are made tougher, xp needs to be higher to make the struggle more worth it.
On day 15 I'm having no issues mining with a combo of perks and found mods, so I think the mining comments aren't warranted.
We are all still learning the new systems, and how they work together.
I did stumble across a easy horde defense strategy to survive a horde night on 14, and I'm hoping to try it out on 21 before the next update.
I went to the top of one of those crumbled high rises, and took out the top two stairs so thy couldn't get up. I placed two spiked fences at the top to prevent jumpers. (Spiders could probably leap over them.) I went back down and placed a ladder on the side to get back up, without the bottom two ladders, and nerd poled up to the ladder, taking the frames with me.
The horde would run up the stairs and then just fall back down again in a loop, and I could just stand at the top taking pot shots at them. In later game adding killing traps and building something like this at a base might be fun.
I DO hope that we start getting at least partial xp from trap kills because technically those are "our" kills from unlocking perks, scavenging resources, and crafting and maintaining traps. Maybe 1/4? That way we'd at least get something making building them more enriching, and encouraging us to build more defenses earn xp at the later game stages. And of course this should then extend to party members as well, so the builder doesn't earn while people doing other tasks are left out in the cold.
About shared xp: Do party members get 100% xp from other member kills, or a percentage? IMHO, they should get 50% or less than the full xp earned.... enough to make it worth staying in proximity, but not so much that party members power level, artificially inflating gamestage.
Again I'd like to see party xp sharing range increased with each additional party member, or maybe individual "lone wolf" perks to extend our personal party range?
Now you have to work harder to find high quality mods which could add a whole different type on gunplay.
I think we have to set realistic expectations which requests for changes.
Kind of like melee... I see where they are going, and asked for enhancements to it like a near miss perk, or or partial damage with a off target swing as long as you are in proximity. Those sound like additions to the new system instead of cutting it and going back to out of date code.
Another perk might be a multiple hit perk, where a melee swing could hit mutiple zombies for damage so long as they are in proximinty of the swing. More perk variety isn't a bad thing at all.
One thing I am noticing though is level gating on perks is hampering diverse play styles... for instance, I found all the minibike parts in looting on day one. The minibike building perk is gated behind intellegence, level 6, which is gated behind level 40.
I haven't cared either way if level gating is in or not but in this example, e can see that the level and perk gating combined is hampering more diverse gameplay. I should have been able to just unlock the minibike building perk, and after finding a working workbench, just assemble it.
That would make for a different earlier game, having the minibike, but with little capability to find fuel or craft it.
The same thing I think could also happen finding the hog, 4x4, or gyrocopter parts.
I do think the zombies are too easy in this last update, but xp from them feels fine.. if they were tougher again, getting that xp from them would be slower and tougher. I could turn up difficulty higher than nomad, but then I'd be getting more of the later game ferals spitting cops, irradiated and such as well.
Maybe we need two game settings in the menu for zombie difficulty instead of just 5 difficulty levels?
One for zombie strength and durability, and another for gamestage level adjustment? That way we could have just tougher zombies like 199, or easier zombies with more later stage iterations.
I think what is making people say that the zombie xp needs to be nerfed is because the xp gain is based on them being tougher in 199. If they are made easier, then the xp probably also needs to be adjusted down for balance, and visa versa if they are made tougher, xp needs to be higher to make the struggle more worth it.
On day 15 I'm having no issues mining with a combo of perks and found mods, so I think the mining comments aren't warranted.
We are all still learning the new systems, and how they work together.
I did stumble across a easy horde defense strategy to survive a horde night on 14, and I'm hoping to try it out on 21 before the next update.
I went to the top of one of those crumbled high rises, and took out the top two stairs so thy couldn't get up. I placed two spiked fences at the top to prevent jumpers. (Spiders could probably leap over them.) I went back down and placed a ladder on the side to get back up, without the bottom two ladders, and nerd poled up to the ladder, taking the frames with me.
The horde would run up the stairs and then just fall back down again in a loop, and I could just stand at the top taking pot shots at them. In later game adding killing traps and building something like this at a base might be fun.
I DO hope that we start getting at least partial xp from trap kills because technically those are "our" kills from unlocking perks, scavenging resources, and crafting and maintaining traps. Maybe 1/4? That way we'd at least get something making building them more enriching, and encouraging us to build more defenses earn xp at the later game stages. And of course this should then extend to party members as well, so the builder doesn't earn while people doing other tasks are left out in the cold.
About shared xp: Do party members get 100% xp from other member kills, or a percentage? IMHO, they should get 50% or less than the full xp earned.... enough to make it worth staying in proximity, but not so much that party members power level, artificially inflating gamestage.
Again I'd like to see party xp sharing range increased with each additional party member, or maybe individual "lone wolf" perks to extend our personal party range?
trielkee
New member
You can't make zombies tougher than they are now. Sure, you can make them take more hits but where's the fun in zombie sponges? No matter how hard zombies hit and how fast they come back up or if they got different speeds of movement, walkers will always be easy to deal with. They can always surround you when indoors, but that depends more on the POI design.
The only true threat are and always will be runners, but there's an option for that so everyone can enjoy what they like.
I'd add massive amount of zombies as a threat, but I don't see this happening in a voxel world.
The only true threat are and always will be runners, but there's an option for that so everyone can enjoy what they like.
I'd add massive amount of zombies as a threat, but I don't see this happening in a voxel world.
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Hek Harris
New member
There are a lot of good reasons to forget the gun parts and move on, but your obsessive emphasis is probably the first :smile-new: .
RayneAngelus
New member
Probably my biggest gripe in this current alpha patch is the way Stamina is handled, both expenditure and regeneration. Back in A16, at the high end, I could go practically non-stop with a steel pickaxe, but not in A17. More realistic, possibly, but also more annoying. Sitting around waiting for stamina to regen is a bore. In A16 there were both a regen perk and tool/weapon expenditure perks (I realize mods account for the latter in part but they are not unlimited in quantity).
On top of that, the only stamina regen perk at current is tied to sprinting. Sprinting, the thing you will only really do for the first 30 levels of the game, after which you get access to bicycles and begin the motorized transport path which makes running all-but obsolete as a primary means of travel. And because this is now tied to a Perk, rather than finding a blueprint by sheer luck, literally everyone will do this unless they are choosing to challenge themselves by not. Ergo, by the time this perk really starts to come into its own, it will largely stop mattering. (It's also a point that cardio workouts are about improving stamina during all physical activity, not just when running.) I've been modifying this manually with each new test build, but I worry about its application in MP if it's not a codified thing. (Regen when walking or idle, +10-50%; I'm at rank 3 in the current game and it still drains, if slowly.)
On top of that, the only stamina regen perk at current is tied to sprinting. Sprinting, the thing you will only really do for the first 30 levels of the game, after which you get access to bicycles and begin the motorized transport path which makes running all-but obsolete as a primary means of travel. And because this is now tied to a Perk, rather than finding a blueprint by sheer luck, literally everyone will do this unless they are choosing to challenge themselves by not. Ergo, by the time this perk really starts to come into its own, it will largely stop mattering. (It's also a point that cardio workouts are about improving stamina during all physical activity, not just when running.) I've been modifying this manually with each new test build, but I worry about its application in MP if it's not a codified thing. (Regen when walking or idle, +10-50%; I'm at rank 3 in the current game and it still drains, if slowly.)
Moldy Bread
New member
No, I have a strong opinion and I will continue to share it, I also know I am not alone in this. I just simply do not like this dumbed down system.
HerrKingsley
New member
It's the stamina breaks that gets to me.
I wounder how mining would feel if they connect the fancy new slow animation to mining, So when stamina is low you hit slower but actually never stop hitting.
I wounder how mining would feel if they connect the fancy new slow animation to mining, So when stamina is low you hit slower but actually never stop hitting.
SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
Whats you thoughts on gun parts?
HerrKingsley
New member
Sounds like you like to start out with looting, exploring and killing zombies the two first weeks.
I personally like to find a POI, fortify it with resources that i find in near area, Finding water and food and when im settled down (usually after day 7) I start to explore and loot the nearest city. Which means that in ae17 I am at around lvl 10-12 first week and have no mods.
I think that is a good idea otherwise it will become the new auger power level.
Genosis
New member
My own opinion here, but when I first started playing and encountered the "gun parts" system, I had an immediate and distinct reaction. "Oh. That's dumb."
I just didn't like it, and it wasn't immersive. Why did I just find 3 gun barrels and the several different kinds of shotgun stocks? Are people really leaving disassembled guns all over the place? Wow, 3 more short barrels, I guess I will start another chest for shotgun parts. I ended up stock piling them, assembling the best gun I could and constantly filled my bags with incomplete guns on the way to the trader, or trying to optimize my storage by partially assembling guns while looting places. It was awkward in my opinion.
I would agree that I might be finding "too many" guns now, depending on how RNG is feeling that day. In the first week I had 3-4 hunting rifles, and maybe a half dozen shot guns. I repaired them, got like 5k in my first trader run. Which may be fair, stuff is expensive.
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