PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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You may not be able to design around it but it should be kept in mind when balancing. A well designed base should be able to take care of the first few hordes with minimal help from the player. That should be the extreme edge of a builder character, one who doesn't particularly want to shoot anything, otherwise there's little point in getting construction perks when combat perks are a necessity.
Unmanned defences may not work in real life but as we are repeatedly told, this is a game not real life.
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Perhaps the player who doesnt want to shoot anything should play on carebear difficulty.

 
Perhaps the player who doesnt want to shoot anything should play on carebear difficulty.
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That would apply if this were solely a shooting game but it's also a building game. What's the point of having a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night?

I've managed to play through the last few alpha's only picking off enemies on horde night when I feel it, sometimes not at all. Just because a play style isn't _your_ preferred style doesn't make it any less valid.

 
That would apply if this were solely a shooting game but it's also a building game. What's the point of having a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night?
I've managed to play through the last few alpha's only picking off enemies on horde night when I feel it, sometimes not at all. Just because a play style isn't _your_ preferred style doesn't make it any less valid.
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Yes but this is a survival horde crafting game. So dealing with the horde is a major part of the game. From what ive seen there are plenty of points to get all the building skills AND combat skills to complement that. So if you don't take any combat skills thats like complaining that you made a char in a MMO that focuses only on buffs and can't kill.

If you want to only build then fine, you can still fight zombies, you just wont have skills boosting your performance.

 
Yes but this is a survival horde crafting game. So dealing with the horde is a major part of the game. From what ive seen there are plenty of points to get all the building skills AND combat skills to complement that. So if you don't take any combat skills thats like complaining that you made a char in a MMO that focuses only on buffs and can't kill.
If you want to only build then fine, you can still fight zombies, you just wont have skills boosting your performance.
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Yes, this is a survival horde crafting game. How you deal with a horde should be complementary to your character build, not despite of it.

I reiterate, what's the point of a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night? This especially applies to the first few horde nights when you don't have the spare perk points to add to skills not normally used by the character.

 
That would apply if this were solely a shooting game but it's also a building game. What's the point of having a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night?
I've managed to play through the last few alpha's only picking off enemies on horde night when I feel it, sometimes not at all. Just because a play style isn't _your_ preferred style doesn't make it any less valid.
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IMO you shouldnt be able to play thru a shooting game on easy without shooting. But as u mentioned this is a hybrid game so maybe it should be possible on easy.

You and I both know building skills wouldnt be useless. Its like me saying shooting skills are useless if u cant sit in a grassy field and kill the entire blood moon horde. If I can, the game needs a major difficulty increase.

 
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The zombie horde is an integral part of the design.

You can nerf it into oblivion with a mod if that's your thing. That doesn't bother me at all.

Apart from that you don't get to decide when they come for tasty you.

Disclaimer: This zombie game may contain zombies. User experience may change while getting eaten by zombies.

 
Yes, this is a survival horde crafting game. How you deal with a horde should be complementary to your character build, not despite of it.
I reiterate, what's the point of a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night? This especially applies to the first few horde nights when you don't have the spare perk points to add to skills not normally used by the character.
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That toon can have a more robust base and defense to operate out of. You have more time to build your elaborate bases and more time to loot for supplies with faster crafting.

Plus you can still fight the zombies with no skills in offense. It doesn't mean you can't use guns or armor or melee. You just dont get bonuses to it.

 
Yes, this is a survival horde crafting game. How you deal with a horde should be complementary to your character build, not despite of it.
I reiterate, what's the point of a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night? This especially applies to the first few horde nights when you don't have the spare perk points to add to skills not normally used by the character.
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I think what you're meaning to say is that a builder is passive, and a hunter is active. Builders build so that the base itself will destroy the horde. Spike pits, turrets, and blades will all take them out, while you do your best to lead them into that and away from your walls to minimize repairs. Meanwhile with a hunter your gun or your club takes them out, while you do your best to lead them into a cluster and away from the walls to minimize repairs and maximize your chances of hitting something. Neither play style should be invalidated because they're both just as viable. Both have strengths, both have drawbacks. Building takes a ton of resources and planning, while hunting requires constant micromanagement and skill in evading. Both are designed into the game, and when you're in multiplayer both compliment eachother.

 
So do we have a countdown for number of game breaking bugs remaining :)

I guess some people would get upset if the number increased due to a new bug being found or if the last bug to be fixed took longer than the rest combined.

 
Avoiding zombies

All I have to do is dig a hole in the ground.

Jump into it and cover it up.

I could stay down there for as long as my supply's last and not worry about zombies.

Anybody who says differently is just fooling themselves IMAO. :)
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This tactic annoys me.It shouldnt be that easy to dig holes.Cuz digging would burn stamina pretty quick and using some machine would just cause tons of noise.

Plus dirt blocks or some rocks would collaspe on you if you dont add some support.This will be added A628.17 experimental dont worry.

 
This tactic annoys me.It shouldnt be that easy to dig holes.Cuz digging would burn stamina pretty quick and using some machine would just cause tons of noise.Plus dirt blocks or some rocks would collaspe on you if you dont add some support.This will be added A628.17 experimental dont worry.
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Zombies will dig you out in A17. So people like him are gonna get killed trying old strategies that don't work anymore.

 
This is a game.that means everyone can camp on high ground and be safe.
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yeah but the suggestion they target claim stones is kinda silly. I mean what if you build your base and you don't bother with claim stones? What if you mass produce them and spread them around your base so the horde never attacks you.

 
You may not be able to design around it but it should be kept in mind when balancing. A well designed base should be able to take care of the first few hordes with minimal help from the player. That should be the extreme edge of a builder character, one who doesn't particularly want to shoot anything, otherwise there's little point in getting construction perks when combat perks are a necessity.
Unmanned defences may not work in real life but as we are repeatedly told, this is a game not real life.
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Yep, it is a game. And what you are describing sounds like a very boring game.

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Yes, this is a survival horde crafting game. How you deal with a horde should be complementary to your character build, not despite of it.
I reiterate, what's the point of a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night? This especially applies to the first few horde nights when you don't have the spare perk points to add to skills not normally used by the character.
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Where do you get that a builder's skills will be useless on horde night? Just because the "build" requires active defense also doesn't mean the build was useless.

 
The dynamics of the game have changed enough to get Roland to confession that he dies more often than Sy-Fy channel programs. So trying not to die will be my number one task and I don't know the optimal game arc to "Min-Max Narvana".

I'm pretty sure I will die my first play through on normal. WHEN I will die is the question, without cheating up loot or gaming the system deliberately, is what I'm excited about.

I've made plans, I will play Navazgane, which is a first game tradition for me, should help quite a bit. After day 28, I will call it a win and play a little more reckless. :)

 
Yes, this is a survival horde crafting game. How you deal with a horde should be complementary to your character build, not despite of it.
I reiterate, what's the point of a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night? This especially applies to the first few horde nights when you don't have the spare perk points to add to skills not normally used by the character.
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Well, if I spec a fighter, I still need to build up a horde base to shoot from. It won't be as elaborate as that of a builder but it must be able to keep them from getting to me.

So if I spec a builder, I still need to shoot them from my horde base. I won't do as much damage as the fighter but the damage must only be good enough to kill zombies that have lost much more HPs due to my better base.

You see, neither can I do without a base as a fighter nor can I do without fighting as a builder.

 
That would apply if this were solely a shooting game but it's also a building game. What's the point of having a builder character if their skills are useless on horde night?
I've managed to play through the last few alpha's only picking off enemies on horde night when I feel it, sometimes not at all. Just because a play style isn't _your_ preferred style doesn't make it any less valid.
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You're making it sound like building a base to prevent having to face a horde is some kind of deep mystery to be solved and those who can accomplish it are masters of their craft.

There are probably MORE Players who use indestructible base setups then don't at this point.

I wonder when people are going to just embrace the fact that horde nights are not intended to be 100 percent cheesed. I know people want to make these crazy bases to try to overcome the horde, but this has never been that style of game. There were shades of it, but it was never going to be the greatest tower defense game out there, and the second diggers and the AI were improved and worked on you had to know that the main focus is now zombie trying to kill you and you reting to see how long you can stay alive.

 
I hope when they start working on balancing in Beta that they put some serious work into difficulty settings and what they mean for the game play.

Going through the various levels of difficulty from easiest to hardest should change more than just how much damage a zombie can take before it dies (over simplification but not far from the truth), it should affect all aspects of the game play and the game shouldn't play the same at all in fact it should be nearly unrecognizable going from the easiest level to the hardest.

You guys can use your imaginations on what this might entail but more importantly the Devs need to dust off their imaginations and figure out what they can do to make our lives miserable as the difficulty level increases.

 
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