PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Roland]

Will 2 player be able to enter the 4x4 after all this time?

Yes. Two players can enter after all this time but what happens to them inside there and whether they can get out again is the truer question. Getting in is easy.

 

[Roland]

Not to sound like a uhhh wimp or anything, but some of Joel's comments on the difficulty level worry me. Sure the game isn't that hard as it is and could use a slight bump, as long as it's not unfair, cheap, and frustrating difficulty. The only "hard" games I like are the souls games, love me some bloodborne, because the only reasons you die in those games is because you did something wrong, and can learn from your mistakes, go back and do it right. If a game is "hard" because of simple cheap overwhelming mechanics with luck being your only way out it becomes frustrating and uninteresting.

There are two difficulty levels below default that can be selected. I think it would be great to hear that many will have needed to turn the difficulty down a level or two after it releases.

 

[Roland]

how much bug fixing has to be done let us see how far they are with it

They are closer to the light at the end of the tunnel than they are to the light at the start of the tunnel.

 

[Erik Louden]

There are two difficulty levels below default that can be selected. I think it would be great to hear that many will have needed to turn the difficulty down a level or two after it releases.

I remain skeptical but I'm a pretty hardcore player.

 

[khzmusik]

Not to sound like a uhhh wimp or anything, but some of Joel's comments on the difficulty level worry me. Sure the game isn't that hard as it is and could use a slight bump, as long as it's not unfair, cheap, and frustrating difficulty.

I agree with this, and think there may be ways to do this while still being somewhat realistic.

For example, it could be easy to start off with a vehicle, but they can't be repaired, gas is 10x harder to find, and nothing respawns. So eventually you have to give it up and walk everywhere. (I'll admit I'm getting this from TWD where they start out in an RV and eventually have to abandon it.)

Also, one of my "asks" that I forgot to ask about was seasonal weather. You start off in "summertime" where everything can grow, but then winter comes and all your crops fail, so unless you prepared you're screwed.

I think that these sort of "depleting resources" mechanics would make it a world that felt a little more real, because the world gets more and more apocalyptic as time goes on. It also complements (rather than detracts from) the ever-present zombie threat, since you'd have to go into more and more dangerous situations to eat.

...Of course that's what mods are for.

 

[The Gronk]

There are two difficulty levels below default that can be selected. I think it would be great to hear that many will have needed to turn the difficulty down a level or two after it releases.

I wouldn't, it would mean the balancing is borked. If your tower cannot defend against a horde then the tower defence aspect of the game is broken, not improved.

 

[khzmusik]

I still say they should not have gotten ride of the giant bees...and added in Giant Ants , Spiders , Scorpions and Cockroaches

There's always Starvation Mod...

Personally I hate that stuff in the mod, but to each their own.

 

[Telosbudo]

I find it amusing Joel is giving advice on Twitter about how to play the game when he's admitted himself he's a total amateur at the game and only recently started playing it after a year hiatis. Even then, I stopped playing for a year wasn't nearly as bad as he was in his vids.

P.S. does anyone else find it strange that

Joel is as bad at a game he created?

 

[The Gronk]

I find it amusing Joel is giving advice on Twitter about how to play the game when he's admitted himself he's a total amateur at the game and only recently started playing it after a year hiatis. Even then, I stopped playing for a year wasn't nearly as bad as he was in his vids.P.S. does anyone else find it strange that

Joel is as bad at a game he created?

Not really, his main job is art. You can't shoot a texture atlas at an enemy.

 

[Telosbudo]

Also,I get that Joel's taking the transparency route and improvising his vids but he also comes off as a disorganized mess - doesn't know what changes have been made yet, what works or doesn't work yet etc.

All it takes is a little prep time before hitting record to not look like that.

 

[Drithyl]

I agree with this, and think there may be ways to do this while still being somewhat realistic.
For example, it could be easy to start off with a vehicle, but they can't be repaired, gas is 10x harder to find, and nothing respawns. So eventually you have to give it up and walk everywhere. (I'll admit I'm getting this from TWD where they start out in an RV and eventually have to abandon it.)

Also, one of my "asks" that I forgot to ask about was seasonal weather. You start off in "summertime" where everything can grow, but then winter comes and all your crops fail, so unless you prepared you're screwed.

I think that these sort of "depleting resources" mechanics would make it a world that felt a little more real, because the world gets more and more apocalyptic as time goes on. It also complements (rather than detracts from) the ever-present zombie threat, since you'd have to go into more and more dangerous situations to eat.

...Of course that's what mods are for.

Actually, that would be an interesting use of mods. I wonder how far they can use the new buff system to replicate seasons.

 

[Tin]

I wouldn't, it would mean the balancing is borked. If your tower cannot defend against a horde then the tower defence aspect of the game is broken, not improved.

**Minus that the game will need to be tweak or balance all the way up to full release..

I disagree.

If they find the majority of players needing to dial the game to the default settings, then I would call it a win.

If they find the majority of players needing to go under the default, then maybe it would needing adjusting.

In all actuality, it really comes down to: How hard TFP want to make their default game.

Having a minority of the ppl needing (or wanting) to go below the default at first, isn't necessarily a detriment or a indication the overall balance is broken.

 

[Sverresson]

There are two difficulty levels below default that can be selected. I think it would be great to hear that many will have needed to turn the difficulty down a level or two after it releases.

I'm too stubborn to turn it down, if they kill me I'm bringing them with me! *surrounds himself with gas barrels stocks up on dynamite and rockets* :twitch:

 

[Erik Louden]

Just because zombies are a little better at their job doesn't mean the game is significantly harder.

In fact 99% of the game is not horde night and as far as that is concerned that has not been tweaked that much in making (non-horde) zombies better at killing you.

The game used to be hard but in the last 5-6 alphas its been toned down to where zombies (and overall difficulty) are a joke.

 

[The Gronk]

**Minus that the game will need to be tweak or balance all the way up to full release..I disagree.

If they find the majority of players needing to dial the game to the default settings, then I would call it a win.

If they find the majority of players needing to go under the default, then maybe it would needing adjusting.

In all actuality, it really comes down to: How hard TFP want to make their default game.

Having a minority of the ppl needing (or wanting) to go below the default at first, isn't necessarily a detriment or a indication the overall balance is broken.

Roland's original post said "many" people having to lower the difficulty level, not a minority. If many people are having difficulty on the default setting it's the balance that is borked, not the people.

It's true that balancing will continue through beta and possibly even a few gold updates but the default setting should be adequate for most people.

 

[Guppycur]

I find it amusing Joel is giving advice on Twitter about how to play the game when he's admitted himself he's a total amateur at the game and only recently started playing it after a year hiatis. Even then, I stopped playing for a year wasn't nearly as bad as he was in his vids.P.S. does anyone else find it strange that

Joel is as bad at a game he created?

Naw, he's playing to show stuff off, not playing to beat the game.

That video will come closer to release.

 

[Roland]

I find it amusing Joel is giving advice on Twitter about how to play the game when he's admitted himself he's a total amateur at the game and only recently started playing it after a year hiatis. Even then, I stopped playing for a year wasn't nearly as bad as he was in his vids.P.S. does anyone else find it strange that

Joel is as bad at a game he created?

I think it’s amusing that you think time somehow stopped after that video more than a month ago. Joel has been playing daily for the last two weeks or so and has certainly caught his stride and with what he is experiencing playing A17 I don’t find it the least bit strange that he would be able to give gameplay advice regarding the new normal today.

My gameplay advice based on my recent play is to secure food and water first thing. Ignoring those things to do other things will spell your death. Now I’m not nationally ranked in any video game so you’ll have to take my advice with a grain of salt....

 

[Erik Louden]

@Roland,

How is melee combat, is it hard?

I think that you guys removed stunning preventing zeds from attacking or something?

Also, why did you guys remove smell? I get it wasn't working perfectly but it was one more factor in game difficulty.

 

[KhaineGB]

Yes. Two players can enter after all this time but what happens to them inside there and whether they can get out again is the truer question. Getting in is easy.

2 men enter, 1 man leaves.

Thunderdome confirmed?

 

[Roland]

Roland's original post said "many" people having to lower the difficulty level, not a minority. If many people are having difficulty on the default setting it's the balance that is borked, not the people.
It's true that balancing will continue through beta and possibly even a few gold updates but the default setting should be adequate for most people.

Or maybe the new normal is a well balanced but tougher game where new players will need to start on easy and progress to standard difficulty. A tough game can be well balanced and with all the new dynamics I suggest that some veterans may find they are having a hard time. Now if blaming balance is necessary to protect gamer egos I get that. I actually suggested making Adventurer the new default precisely because the game is tougher now and I knew gamers wouldn’t like to have to turn it down a notch. Calling Adventurer level the default would save us from a lot of knee jerk “balance!” complaints..lol