PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[trielkee]

An XP reward for surviving could be in addition to other sources of XP, rather than replacing all other sources. Up to now, you'd be right: merely surviving is no big deal, and it takes so little effort that it hasn't been worth rewarding. But it's that lack of survival challenge that's been the real problem (it is a survival game, after all).

Well, it could be in addition but it still encourages cheese. Let the cheese be.

 

[Magoli]

Maybe A17 needs some (bloody) encouragement to show up. Did you know that the current A16.4 can handle more than 2000 zombies at once? Quite impressive imo. I wonder if we can still spawn that many entities in Alpha 17.

WOW - looks absolutly amazing - is this real gamefootage or a collage ???

I have a new desctop-picture now ))

very cool mate

the best and positive thing i saw in this thread so far - congrats!

 

[PurgatoryWolf]

But what about people who love to build and don’t want to fight zombies most of the time or don’t want to fight them at all?

play minecraft or roblox?

 

[Armstrrong]

play minecraft or roblox?

If you want, go and play them.

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

There is going to be no such thing as safe in A17 unless you are completely out of detection range either up or down because Faatal made sure of it.
I wish there was no such thing as safe period but I think that's highly improbable.

Might want to turn zombies off.

play minecraft or roblox?

I completely disagree.

These responses (and others like them) present a false dichotomy. They falsely split people into two types:

1) People who want to fight zombies all the time

2) People who don't want there to be any danger from zombies

In the course of making this false split, such responses - always from people in the first group - often make sneering jibes at those they imagine are in the second group, telling them to switch to creative mode or to play a game without zombies or something.

But in reality, the second group doesn't actually exist except as a strawman.

Those of us who want there to be safe places to hole up and don't want to be fighting zombies aren't wanting there to be no danger or no zombies. What we are wanting is for avoiding zombies to be part of the gameplay. We want zombies to be there, but we want to be able to hide from them rather than just fighting them. Like the option of fighting zombies, we want avoiding them and hiding from them to be exciting with elements of danger.

But to repeat myself, not wanting to always be fighting zombies does not mean that we don't want zombies to be there or that we want the game to have no danger. That's just an inaccurate strawman argument designed to make us look like we're weak or scared and "can't handle" any in-game danger. What it actually means is that we do want danger and zombies, but that we want the game to continue to support a variety of ways of dealing with them rather than forcing the issue so that the only option is constantly fighting them off.

 

[lesipher]

For years I played EVE online, one of the most complex games out there with one of the most robust economies in gaming (at least it was when I stopped playing). Their progression system is all behind the scenes with a steady experience/skill system that runs in the background based on the relevant attribute required by each skill. By having skills/perks automatically train in the background it would take out any grinding and allow the player to focus on the gaming experience.

For those curious as to why I quit playing....I got tired of the developers pandering to the lowest common denominator in gaming, simplifying the progression,removing the death penalties, and constantly nerfing player assets due to "balancing issues". There is no such thing as balance and there never was, not in real life or in any honest game.

EDIT: refering to EVE online

 

[trielkee]

Those of us who want there to be safe places to hole up and don't want to be fighting zombies aren't wanting there to be no danger or no zombies. What we are wanting is for avoiding zombies to be part of the gameplay. We want zombies to be there, but we want to be able to hide from them rather than just fighting them. Like the option of fighting zombies, we want avoiding them and hiding from them to be exciting with elements of danger.
But to repeat myself, not wanting to always be fighting zombies does not mean that we don't want zombies to be there or that we want the game to have no danger. That's just an inaccurate strawman argument designed to make us look like we're weak or scared and "can't handle" any in-game danger. What it actually means is that we do want danger and zombies, but that we want the game to continue to support a variety of ways of dealing with them rather than forcing the issue so that the only option is constantly fighting them off.

You made a great point, can't disagree with that. The only problem here is the 7th day horde which is the core mechanic of the game. I don't know how they would tackle the issue without splitting the two sides you mentioned (the ones who like the current approach and the ones who'd like a stealthier one). Maybe an option to just turn the 7th day horde off?

Regarding the third group, people who want to play without zombies (although it's a zombie game, because of the fantastic building options it does make sense if someone wants to just build their world), isn't there an option in the menu to turn them off completely?

 

[AthlonS2K]

Just have a " 7th day pack" its basic, if that, but you leave all your goods and nice stuff behind. close and lock the doors, turn on your turrets for basic support, and leave. if you die, just stay dead or spawn and stay connected for the night to end. When it ends, head to your base and resume.

OR

run power lines and watch your base to the work.

 

[Crater Creator]

I completely disagree.
These responses (and others like them) present a false dichotomy. They falsely split people into two types:

1) People who want to fight zombies all the time

2) People who don't want there to be any danger from zombies

In the course of making this false split, such responses - always from people in the first group - often make sneering jibes at those they imagine are in the second group, telling them to switch to creative mode or to play a game without zombies or something.

But in reality, the second group doesn't actually exist except as a strawman.

Those of us who want there to be safe places to hole up and don't want to be fighting zombies aren't wanting there to be no danger or no zombies. What we are wanting is for avoiding zombies to be part of the gameplay. We want zombies to be there, but we want to be able to hide from them rather than just fighting them. Like the option of fighting zombies, we want avoiding them and hiding from them to be exciting with elements of danger.

But to repeat myself, not wanting to always be fighting zombies does not mean that we don't want zombies to be there or that we want the game to have no danger. That's just an inaccurate strawman argument designed to make us look like we're weak or scared and "can't handle" any in-game danger. What it actually means is that we do want danger and zombies, but that we want the game to continue to support a variety of ways of dealing with them rather than forcing the issue so that the only option is constantly fighting them off.

That dichotomy is faulty on both ends. I for one don’t want to fight zombies all the time. I accept that this is not just a first person shooter. However, I want my success against the blood moon horde in particular to be commensurate with the effort I’ve expended to survive against it. That goes for any approach I could take, including avoidance.

I shouldn't speak for others, but if it feels like I pick on avoidance, it's only because avoidance in the current game is nearly effortless. If avoidance meant paying the trader a small fortune to spend the night at his place, like Madmole has talked about, acquiring those funds could require effort in the same ballpark as surviving the horde through base defenses. Or to use another example, maybe some weeks I feel like sitting behind my triple-thick steel walls and sipping tea (or more realistically, organizing my stuff, crafting more stuff, nursing a broken leg, etc.) until morning. That could be considered avoiding the horde, but I'm cool with it balance-wise, because I put in the effort to make my base that strong.

Any time you're presented with a problem you weren't prepared for, and you get to say, “No, I don’t feel like having that problem today,” you’re not playing a survival game.

 

[Kalyori]

Is it possible to mod out broken legs? Those things aggravate me more than anything lol.

 

[Crater Creator]

Is it possible to mod out broken legs? Those things aggravate me more than anything lol.

Sure, you could do it one way or another. Swing by the modding section to search for instructions how or start a thread if there isn't one.

 

[Kalyori]

Sure, you could do it one way or another. Swing by the modding section to search for instructions how or start a thread if there isn't one.

Will do! Thanks. Would be cool I reckon (perhaps unnecessary) if you could have settings in the menu for the types of ailments you can get. I.E., turn broken legs on or off, different sicknesses, etc.

 

[sillls]

Avoiding zombies

All I have to do is dig a hole in the ground.

Jump into it and cover it up.

I could stay down there for as long as my supply's last and not worry about zombies.

Anybody who says differently is just fooling themselves IMAO.

 

[JCrook1028]

Avoiding zombies
All I have to do is dig a hole in the ground.

Jump into it and cover it up.

I could stay down there for as long as my supply's last and not worry about zombies.

Anybody who says differently is just fooling themselves IMAO.

Not anymore Unless you dig further down than the z's can detect you.

 

[Demonoid74]

Avoiding zombies
All I have to do is dig a hole in the ground.

Jump into it and cover it up.

I could stay down there for as long as my supply's last and not worry about zombies.

Anybody who says differently is just fooling themselves IMAO.

That was Soooooo Alpha16... :rolleyes-new:

 

[FileMachete]

-snip-What we are wanting is for avoiding zombies to be part of the gameplay. We want zombies to be there, but we want to be able to hide from them rather than just fighting them. Like the option of fighting zombies, we want avoiding them and hiding from them to be exciting with elements of danger. -snip-

This. Definately this. For me I'd like -any- zombie encounter to be a 'real' danger. Something that, if you have the time, you'd find yourself weighing the risk vs reward.

Think of the first days of the first time or two you played 7dtd. Jumping at every sound, no idea what to do, no confidence that you could either win a fight or would be able to run away.

Then there are some that enjoy roleplaying, 'this is -real!-'

I know I certainly wouldn't be instigating fights in a ZA. That'd be certain suicide eventually.

Trouble is, well, -how-? Make z's extremely tough, or 'bulletsponges' and it just gets silly. TFPs have done a really good job to keep that fear/uncertainty evident without straying too far into, 'well now that's just silly' territory. Stamina, ammo scarcity, 'believable' "oh ♥♥♥♥!" z's like dogs & bears, etc.

No idea if they've come up with any new supporting mechanics for A17 that will feel like they fit into that narrow space. Personally I'm not sure if I can rationalize digging zombies. Z's taking out concrete is hard enough to ignore, heh. Not that I have any great ideas regarding this. Wish I did. For now I guess we're stuck with having to leverage our own imaginations and roleplaying a 'ruleset' to fill the gap.

Edit: should add that most anything TFPs add that supports the above would also likely make the game 'better' for those that prefer the 'kill em all!' playstyle.

 

[NukemDed]

i suppose this is why we get to choose some options at world gen.

we can set the game up how we like.

im sure this will ne the same a17 so no matter your game style you will find something that suots you

what i like is a slow progression. i do hide from zombies - or at least i hide my base.

first few hordes is toe to toe for the fun

after that defences are nice...

love smacking down a wandering hordr as a pleasant distraction too

so yes i hide and yes i fight.

 

[Aldranon]

Whats stopping books from giving a "moral boost" for instance i can give temporary lvl 5 perks or even a buff that wilkl make the next item you craft in a category legendary

How about this: Perks give you access to making all the weapons, but the books are need to build a specific weapon or weapon mod?

Then books become very useful! An exploring/looting weapons maker will be much better than a weapons maker that only digs underground all day.

Maybe without books you can only make pipe pistols anf pipe SMG's. Without the perk, the books are useless however.

I like that idea!

 

[FileMachete]

Exactly NukemDed

Some folks want 'harder' to mean more & tougher z's, and that's cool.

And some still want to be able to build a 100% safe base, which is cool too.

If I'm into mining or building at the moment then I may ignore a wandering horde. Not sure how I'll feel about it if every wandering horde can go into digging mode and force a fight.

One of the toughest playthroughs I've tried was a golf game. Think I made it to around day 40 with less than 100 kills.

Will be interesting to see if the new pathing/mechanics will still allow that kind of game. Hope so

So while my 'normal' playthrough is pretty generic I do like to mix things up and try different things/mods. So I suppose I'm just weighing in that, for some playstyles, being able to build a totally safe base isn't a bad thing at all.

 

[sillls]

Not anymore Unless you dig further down than the z's can detect you.

After the Alpha 17 drops:

Ok, I will give it about a week and then people will come out and say that they beat the system simply by digging in. Some may even say that it was soo easy that they stopped doing it out of sheer boredom. lol

- - - Updated - - -

That was Soooooo Alpha16... :rolleyes-new:

Yeah but it will be soooooooo Alpha 17 as well.