PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Benjiro]

The things you are claiming we NEED to put points in right at the start i have zero interest in. Headshot Bonus? Meh, I'm a melee/bow combo so I don't NEED headshots.

You are kind of contradicting yourself. If you are a melee/bow combo user, so you probably used to target heads all the time. That means you got the headshot bonus. Headshot does not apply to ranged weapons only, its about every weapon doing bonus damage to the head.

I also don't stuff my backpacks to the brim so I can definitely manage my bag without putting any points in encumbrance. I don't see ANY urgency at all to predestine yourself to one specific build.

I have yet to see any player that does not end up stuffing their backpack to the brim when they start. Loot, scrap, loot more, fills up even the old slots very fast. As a lot of resources tend to be very important at the start, unlike when you have a base or mini bike or ...

We shall see when A17 is ever released because now its nothing but a circle jerk with information that gets old 5 minutes ago. As Joel stats one or shows one thing and by the next video things already changed ( some maybe in responds to community over reacting ).

What i find personally, a lot of those changes feel immersion breaking. You can say a lot about spam crafting ( what had solutions ) but there was a logic behind it. You got better because you actually used it. This Perk system is totally not immersive. You can craft a 1000 items or dig all night, put points in your farming skills and plop, you just became a god farmer that can harvest 6 items / plant. Your character does not feel naturally but artificial.

I understand why TFPs want to make a totally scriptable system like this, as it makes thing way more easy on them but it feels like some of the magic of 7D2D goes away and becomes generic in the process.

 

[Vintorez]

Just watched the Fortitude perks video and had a suggestion to make the Well Insulated perk a bit more interesting, particularly the later tiers since they don't have any other bonus beyond more insulation.

The idea for the 3+ tiers is that the player gains a minor buff when depending on the climate, such as increased stamina regen in the cold and very slow natural health regen in the heat.

 

[Drithyl]

Just watched the Fortitude perks video and had a suggestion to make the Well Insulated perk a bit more interesting, particularly the later tiers since they don't have any other bonus beyond more insulation.
The idea for the 3+ tiers is that the player gains a minor buff when depending on the climate, such as increased stamina regen in the cold and very slow natural health regen in the heat.

That'd be cool. I agree that the perk seems a bit lackluster, especially considering that you'll be getting your insulation from clothing.

 

[Aldranon]

I think the implications of the perk is that whoever harvests it did the taking care of the field up to that point, but since this is a game and not a real-life chore, it has to be distilled into something that works gameplay-wise.

That's true, it has to go somewhere. Growing potatoes you don't just throw in the potatoes and come back some months later. It is a lot of work. So I can see why it fits better in Fortitude than any where else.

 

[Gnomaana]

I think the implications of the perk is that whoever harvests it did the taking care of the field up to that point, but since this is a game and not a real-life chore, it has to be distilled into something that works gameplay-wise.

And even in that scenario, Intelligence is a better tree for it. I have a garden in my backyard. Knowing how to plant them and how often to water is way more important than muscle. I just think something like Iron Stomach fits the Fortitude tree better and Gardening is more an Intelligence type skill.

Edit: I also think resistance to food poisoning was one of the few things missing from any of the skill trees. I guess it could be tied to the resistance to disease but it would be a nice skill set to have separate if it also came with getting more benefit from crappy food.

 

[Aldranon]

And even in that scenario, Intelligence is a better tree for it. I have a garden in my backyard. Knowing how to plant them and how often to water is way more important than muscle. I just think something like Iron Stomach fits the Fortitude tree better and Gardening is more an Intelligence type skill.

With almost anything you need to know what your doing, combat, cooking, farming, looting... Where would it stop?

As you said, its not a simulator, its a game and games need to be as playable as possible.

 

[Amanitasec]

New movie from Joel

Moderator note: this is the Fortitude video, which was already shared here.

 

[Gnomaana]

With almost anything you need to know what your doing, combat, cooking, farming, looting... Where would it stop?As you said, its not a simulator, its a game and games need to be as playable as possible.

So you wouldn't like a skill to be able to make better/some use of some of the crap food you scavenge in the game?

Everything you mentioned, except farming, is in the tree that makes the most sense. Yes, you need intelligence to some extent for all of those but from you examples: Looting - perception makes perfect sense. Cooking - it is in the intelligence tree so... , combat - Hand to hand? Agility or Strength are for sure the biggest factors, Shooting - agility/perception. They did a good job of picking which tree make the most sense for everything EXCEPT farming. It is the odd man out. Sure brawn helps at certain points but it isn't even close to being as important as knowing where to plant, how deep to plant, how much water, what not to plant next to each other. My decent sized garden, that kept us overflowing in banana peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes and zucchini for the entire summer, took VERY little actual physical effort after the first couple hours. Even those first two hours weren't exactly physically taxing.

 

[toores]

Playing a Character spec in a survival game is better than playing god in a survival game

The balance would have to be really well tuned if so much of the game's content is locked behind perks though.

 

[Cazmyr]

I was watching a video and just noticed something.

In Strength there is Do-It-Yourself.

It reduces Crafting Time and at 3+ adds Active Crafting Spots.

Question 1: With Crafting Time being moved to Intelligence, what is taking its place here?

Question 2: What is meant by Active Crafting Slots? Is it the ability to queue items in that many slots? Or is it the ability to be crafting items in that many slots at the same time?

 

[Gnomaana]

Edited because there was no reason for me to be snarky about it. Sorry.

 

[meganoth]

Maybe because body shots being as damaging as the old headshots is immersion breaking? Before you needed to get skilled at killing Zombie by targeting the heads. If all you need to do is hit the body, it makes the game feel dumbed down. You also assume that people will select "Easy". Most people run games on standard ( what i assume Joel was using in his videos ). And it was like seeing somebody hitting wet clay over and over again.

Because you are used to headshots being more damaging. A new user will not automatically assume that and when looking into the perks will see a perk that adds headshot. He might or might not use that then. But at least he will survive even before seeing that perk because for him it is easier as for people playing on harder settings.

Now since it is established that "easy" would be a good thing for newbies, lets assume the next step: TFP might just call that "Easy" setting "Normal" and voila, newbies will play "Normal" and not be zombie fodder. Every other player who has played for more than a few hours should select "Advanced" and play 7D2D in a difficulty that is somewhat like A16.4 on "Normal". Or select something even higher.

 

[meganoth]

You really can't see the difference in aiming at a specific part that is harder to hit but gives an advantage when you succeed over a generic "Every hit does 200% damage" setting?

The hypothesis of Benjiro was that novice players will be pound to ground by zombies because (among other things) without headshot multiplier they simply will not make enough damage. I.e. with these changes in A17 the game would be intrinsically too difficult for them.

And I say that is easy to disprove, if they do damage to every part of the body as if it was a headshot (for one of us playing at higher difficulty) then it isn't too hard for them at all

 

[Chancer0076]

Because you are used to headshots being more damaging. A new user will not automatically assume that and when looking into the perks will see a perk that adds headshot. He might or might not use that then. But at least he will survive even before seeing that perk because for him it is easier as for people playing on harder settings.
Now since it is established that "easy" would be a good thing for newbies, lets assume the next step: TFP might just call that "Easy" setting "Normal" and voila, newbies will play "Normal" and not be zombie fodder. Every other player who has played for more than a few hours should select "Advanced" and play 7D2D in a difficulty that is somewhat like A16.4 on "Normal". Or select something even higher.

Anyone who's ever played a computer game would assume that headshots do extra damage. It's just the way it is...

You shouldn't assume that, because they are new to 7d2d, that they've never played any other games.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

What are the arguments for having a level cap?

The design reason for the level cap/perk points cap is choice. The devs want you to have to choose which perks you take rather than merely choose what you take first. Agree or disagree, this is the devs’ vision for the game and MM has said as much. MM believes this will add more variety to playthroughs. Like all things 7dtd though, it will probably be easy to remove or increase the level cap if you are so motivated.

 

[CplCritter]

We're definitely getting rid of fertilizer... I didn't know poop fights were a thing.

I never got in poop fights, but I did find an amusing way to use turds. If I was in a server, I would hide turds in bird nests arou d busy areas/POIs then giggle about the thought of searching for eggs and feathers only to discover someone took a dump in a nest. I always searched the burnt forest for my fertilizer, so I had to find a way to repurpose turds, right? I will miss my practical jokes with turds

 

[kutlukhan]

idk how people say that they dont need headshots, i honestly cant understand in the early and mid game weapons feel too weak without headshots(which makes sense btw) but even in the late game i dont think u can one shot even with full pummel pete and 600 sledgehammer. I like the look of a17 i think it will make the game harder for all of us. cuz ive been playing for like 400 hours or so and now normal nomad settings are just too easy, but other settings make the zombies just bullet sponges. but these kind of changes (like more advanced inv management) will make the game more challenging. great job TFP.

 

[SittingDuck]

so close



Stolen from utube hehehe

 

[Quantum Blue]

With harvesting being in Fortitude:
How many people worked all day in the field, harvesting? I did as a kid and you need fortitude!

Field dressing a deer without a real sharp knife would require some too.

Farming Simulator 2018 allows you to hire helpers that have higher endurance so that they can tend the fields longer than those with lower endurance... (I can only play Ravenhearst for 60 hours a week...)

Gnomanna. Just saw your posts. Who says it can have farming simulating in it? Who says you can't abstract it so that any ability could impact anything? Seems to me that certain people just can't step back far enough to connect the 'stars'.

Robin Williams could abstract ANYTHING. (And he could connect any two things as well...)

Btw - I am not saying you are wrong. Or that it you shouldn't suggest TFP change.

And you may have your farming examples for intellect, but it would seem there might be farmers who could easily link improved harvests to many different things. (And as I have quite a few for friends, I plan on asking...)

 

[CypherTodd]

Increasing xp need is a grindy choice and sounds cheap. Just like bethesda's "let's unlock infinite levels BUT you need to sleep with Todd 10938749 times to get them".

being named Todd I am OK with this.