PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

  • Newly Updated

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Check out the newest reveals by Madmole

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Over 100 new perk books with set collecting and bonuses

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
Status
Not open for further replies.
Why not? Why would you waste time optimizing code you may rip out and replace? Dev time costs money and companies that waste time working on code that will get ripped out later are the companies you read about closing down. Optimization is just not an Alpha priority. They probably do a bit BUT until a system is pretty much guaranteed to be finalized it's just a waste of man hours. Sorry that fact seems to upset you so much but reality is reality.
This was not KhaineGBs point. We argue over a word that used to mean something different (if he is right). Lets stick to discussing the facts instead of using words like "upset", your first reply to him was at least as "upset" as his. I remember because it is a bit unusual for you to come on so strong.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes. And whatever you can climb, so will zombies; meaning that breaking the bottom ladder trick isn't safe anymore... They will follow!
0.o really?

I mean I love it but.....0.o really?

I totally use that trick. And I love that I can't do it anymore.

I hope they are able to negotiate Toothy and Pillar Bases as we are as well.

 
0.o really?
I mean I love it but.....0.o really?

I totally use that trick. And I love that I can't do it anymore.

I hope they are able to negotiate Toothy and Pillar Bases as we are as well.
1. Break the 2 last ladder blocks.

2. Place hay bale, hop on top, then jump and place another hay bale.

3. Hold on to ladder, then pick up hay bales.

4. ???

5. Profit!

 
On "Alpha": We seem to agree that EA games don't conform to the wikipedia definition of development or what your friends in the bussiness tell you. But I would bet you a good sum of money that many other independent developers don't operate with that old model and vertical slices and complete development at the drawing board either.
I remember that when TFP changed many skills to perks for A16 they said this is a change that would continue in A17, that there would be much more perks. For me the perk system now looks like a continuation of what they started then, away from learning-by-doing and going into the classic RPG direction (also with the attributes).

Did they plan this from the start? Don't think so, they tried learning-by-doing and didn't like it, so they reduced it in A16 and (maybe) removed it from vanilla now. It is also easy to see that mods should still be able to add l-b-d again (as buffs can change character values).

I don't remember MM saying in A16 that it is beta, by the way. I remember in the middle of A17 development that he said something like "This is (like) a beta" and that was a surprise to me. And he never said what he meant exactly, except that (Roland I think) explained that TFP doesn't really stick to terms like "beta" as rules. It is obvious he doesn't read from a carefully rehearsed script and may say things that can be dissected and later used against him. I like that more than carefully worded statements from the marketing department and take some confusion as neccessary evil.
Here's a chart yall. :angel:

a1dbd9c9875d1fc70ba8babda23a8915.jpg


 
This was not KhaineGBs point. We argue over a word that used to mean something different (if he is right). Lets stick to discussing the facts instead of using words like "upset", your first reply to him was at least as "upset" as his. I remember because it is a bit unusual for you to come on so strong.
Your point is probably still valid, Meganoth, but Gnomaana was replying to a comment by DaVegaNL, not KhaineGB, if I remember correctly.

 
1. Break the 2 last ladder blocks.
2. Place hay bale, hop on top, then jump and place another hay bale.

3. Hold on to ladder, then pick up hay bales.

4. ???

5. Profit!
That is certainly true.

I mostly only use this method while I am in a PoI for the first few horde nights until I build my base. Then I use an underground tunnel. With them digging now that could change as well, but I still think it is a good idea to avoid using doors. They are still a weak point and something zombies will go after.

So we will see what all the changes do to my base design, but I am looking forward to that and seeing how it turns out. Very exciting time to be a 7D2D fan!

 
Why not? Why would you waste time optimizing code you may rip out and replace? Dev time costs money and companies that waste time working on code that will get ripped out later are the companies you read about closing down. Optimization is just not an Alpha priority. They probably do a bit BUT until a system is pretty much guaranteed to be finalized it's just a waste of man hours. Sorry that fact seems to upset you so much but reality is reality.
That's a good question. Why one would waste time optimizing code, which might be ripped out later. One shouldn't. And indeed, like you said, it would be a waste of time/resources until a feature is more-or-less done.

Therefore, would adding major features post-Beta make sense in the classical, rigid Alpha-Beta-Gold system? I don't think so. Therefore the whole Alpha-Beta-Gold system is quite restricting, I think, and developers have to be flexible with those states. Therefore I don't think that the 'optimization-won't-happen-cuz-Alpha' argument does not hold if one does not follow this system. Optimization can (and should) happen at all stages, and should not be limited to the classical Beta-phase.

 
Sort of. I work from home, but why is that relevant?


Because people like to throw it around as the "reason" for massive system changes within the game being acceptable, even though that's not GENERALLY what the Alpha stage of game development is for. That's what Pre-Alpha is for.

I'm pretty sure I've already explained that several times in previous posts though. So I think I'm done for now. ;)
Alpha in the traditional development cycle doesn't have to match Alpha in Early Access development. The same word can mean different things in different settings. It happens all the time. People are expected to be able to tell from the context. TFP's usage of Alpha is pretty standard in EA games.

 
That's a good question. Why one would waste time optimizing code, which might be ripped out later. One shouldn't. And indeed, like you said, it would be a waste of time/resources until a feature is more-or-less done.
Therefore, would adding major features post-Beta make sense in the classical, rigid Alpha-Beta-Gold system? I don't think so. Therefore the whole Alpha-Beta-Gold system is quite restricting, I think, and developers have to be flexible with those states. Therefore I don't think that the 'optimization-won't-happen-cuz-Alpha' argument does not hold if one does not follow this system. Optimization can (and should) happen at all stages, and should not be limited to the classical Beta-phase.
Your first sentence contradicts your 2nd paragraph. You say "One shouldn't. And indeed, like you said, it would be a waste of time/resources" and then in the 2nd paragraph state "Optimazation can (and should) happen at all stages.....) No, optimization should NOT happen in the stage where things are still getting ripped apart and put back together quite often.

Maybe late Alpha when that type of carnage lessens? Sure. It has to start sometime and you never know what kind of nice little bugs optimization will bring up. It would make sense to do at least some before you go to Beta phase. Never know, you may have to end up ripping out something you wanted to keep because the optimization attempt showed the current system just couldn't be optimized sufficiently. But you should NEVER optimize placeholder code or even code you are pretty sure is going to need extensive rewrites soon(ish).

- - - Updated - - -

Ooops, thank you for the correction.
Gnomaana, sorry. My post was in a pre-alpha state :smile-new:
No problem. I probably did come on a little stronger than I needed when I was replying to KhaineGB so your point was most likely valid even if just about the wrong post. Lol :)

 
Don't push developer or designer for unrealistic deadline, if it take 2 yrs so be it, but plan, think, replan and then start coding.
If 7d2d were the fiftieth RTS or RPG or shooter in a long line of RTSs, RPGs or shooters, they could very well pick and place and plan everything from the drawing board. They would know exactly what works in the genre, look at their competitiors and think about one or two improvements to test out, the rest would be just standard stuff.

If TFP were just interested in throwing together 6 genres and release whatever is the result of this combo, they could very well plan everything ahead.

Heck, if they liked the development process of a rigidly planned game, they could have planned this game on the drawing board and never done any experiment and it probably would still be an acceptable or good game.

None of above seems to be true in this case.

 
Do zombie corpses really just blink out in a17? Can’t there be a sinking into the ground effect instead?
It's probably just a placeholder for now. Later they will make it look better (After A17) I'd bet. Just them trying to get stuff done to put out for A17E I'd figure.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
after A17 i would like to see max 3 months update cycle. over a year with obvious bugs is horrible
At the time, there was no point in fixing them in A16 since many of the systems got redone for A17E and on.

 
At the time, there was no point in fixing them in A16 since many of the systems got redone for A17E and on.
As I guess this was discused many times and I don't want to mess this thread more than necessary, can anyone point me to some dev posts explaining why update cycles have been so long compared to other early access games? thanks in advance

 
That is certainly true.
I mostly only use this method while I am in a PoI for the first few horde nights until I build my base. Then I use an underground tunnel. With them digging now that could change as well, but I still think it is a good idea to avoid using doors. They are still a weak point and something zombies will go after.




So we will see what all the changes do to my base design, but I am looking forward to that and seeing how it turns out. Very exciting time to be a 7D2D fan!
I am hoping now that they have the new pathing put in they would make doors no more attractive to zombies than any other block. That way we could have nice entrances and people wouldn't put half a dozen doors away from base to attract them....not that I would try something like that.

 
Underground farming is getting cut off? I never saw any announcement about that.
(Please note the rightful use of the word "hoard")
He's referring to when we could grow crops underground with no sunlight not to growing mushrooms underground.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top