PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jackelmyer]

As stated earlier, it's only Steam Early Access that has muddied the waters.

Steam's Early Access specifically has cause a ton of flame over the whole topic. And in reality, there's pretty much no where to talk about it and make the conversation matter....

 

[faatal]

That's literally a quote from Wikipedia, so don't shoot the messenger.

Wikipedia did not make you post it. That was your choice.

It plainly says "when only bugs are being fixed" and "No changes are made to the game...code"

In what universe was that logic ever correct?

 

[RavenSyndil]

Wanders in to comment:

I love 7 Days to Die.. whatever version we are on. I have no issue with messing around with A16 for as long as necessary for The Fun Pimps to get A17 to a place where THEY are happy with presenting it to us. I just wanted to let the folks working so hard to make an already great (imho) game even better and I will wait just as long as it takes for THEM to decide it is ready for the next step in it's evolution. *hugs* to all TFP staff and folks like Roland who try daily to give us a great game to play!

 

[KhaineGB]

Wikipedia did not make you post it. That was your choice.
It plainly says "when only bugs are being fixed" and "No changes are made to the game...code"

In what universe was that logic ever correct?

Logically it doesn't, but my assumption is they believe the reader would deduce this means nothing NEW is added, only bugs are being fixed.

Unless they mean fixing bugs with assets, but we all know that's a load of crap because beta often has rarer, annoying code-related bugs that need to be fixed.

I took it as meaning fixing any code-related bugs that need to be fixed, no other code tweaks unless absolutely necessary (so no more adding stuff) and fixing any asset issues.

 

[faatal]

Are all of these things like a rule? I've had this conversation in our Discord when people expect me, a modder who is definitely not a professional, expect me to stick to the same rules for my patches and updates. Which I always laugh off because, well, if I am doing the work I get to set the rules, not them.
It seems in this day of EA these rules are definitely changing across the board. Looking at Ark and Empyrion alone none of those companies follow ANY of those definitions.

Game development is a very different place today than it was 5 years ago and 10 years ago. I think the days of companies conforming to a single standard are definitely in the rearview.

Exactly.

I don't think companies have ever conformed to one standard across the board. There are often similarities, but many exceptions at every company I've worked at.

At Frostburn for HoN we had sbt (super beta testers) versions which eventually turned into rct, then release versions. That was a free to play game that was never done. Nothing was an alpha, just constant cycling between those types.

 

[Telosbudo]

Faatal, Does the game run A LOT smoother now that that textures are reduced for objects at greater and greater distances? MM mentioned this in his vid he made 5 weeks ago. But He didn't get into so much action as to really stress-test the stuttering and sluggishness that's come to be associated with the game during moderate to high action, or during the rendering of landscapes while driving etc.

 

[SmooreMC85]

Caves haven't been touched. They will be no different in A17 than they were in A16....pathetic. As to the future it just depends on what is possible and keeps the world together with players zooming around in different directions in 4x4s and also structural integrity for surface buildings. Minecraft has no structural integrity and therefore no problems with extensive caverns below the surface anywhere. 7 Days to Die has more of a problem in that regard and the problem hasn't been solved for A17.
Spiders will not move vertically in A17. The pathing system was completely rewritten and does not support zombies crawling up the sides of buildings. I'm sure it's on faatal's list for A18 though. All zombies ragdoll when stunned or killed.

Do zombies still climb ladders?

 

[faatal]

Faatal, Does the game run A LOT smoother now that that textures are reduced for objects at greater and greater distances? MM mentioned this in his vid he made 5 weeks ago. But He didn't get into so much action as to really stress-test the stuttering and sluggishness that's come to be associated with the game during moderate to high action, or during the rendering of landscapes while driving etc.

Don't know. I spend most of my time in the Unity editor and it tends to run from mediocre to horrible in there depending on if the Scene view is shown. By comparison a build runs great, but I'm only playtesting like that in short bursts.

 

[KhaineGB]

Don't know. I spend most of my time in the Unity editor and it tends to run from mediocre to horrible in there depending on if the Scene view is shown. By comparison a build runs great, but I'm only playtesting like that in short bursts.

Can confirm on this one. The unity editor runs like absolute crap

 

[MidnightRook]

@faatal Can you (or anyone) tell me if we will be able to mod the game to include a couple of extra equipment slots at any point? Or will that be hard coded and absolutely unchangeable forevermore?

 

[Kalyori]

@faatal Can you (or anyone) tell me if we will be able to mod the game to include a couple of extra equipment slots at any point? Or will that be hard coded and absolutely unchangeable forevermore?

That would actually be really cool.

 

[MidnightRook]

That would actually be really cool.

Lol yes, I have been pulling for it for myself because, dammit, I want underwear slots and the ability to change underwear is the last slice of civilization we have to us in an apocalypse, think of it as being similar to being able to travel the width and breadth of the Galaxy, hitchhiking and still knowing where your towel is. That's a frood who really has their act together!

 

[Kalyori]

Lol yes, I have been pulling for it for myself because, dammit, I want underwear slots and the ability to change underwear is the last slice of civilization we have to us in an apocalypse, think of it as being similar to being able to travel the width and breadth of the Galaxy, hitchhiking and still knowing where your towel is. That's a frood who really has their act together!

Hahaha absolutely. I would totally collect underwear and run around killing zombies... should be able to make our own too - paint it and draw on it. Make our own art.

 

[Robbing Zombie]

Hahaha absolutely. I would totally collect underwear and run around killing zombies... should be able to make our own too - paint it and draw on it. Make our own art.

Now I got the underpants gnomes song playing in my head lol. And I'm at work. Coincidence?

 

[archergod]

Call it whatever you like. Pre-Alpha or Alpha or Indev or whatever. The stage in which we are participating is one in which these developers like to experiment and develop by degrees. The wellness system was something they experimented with and ultimately rejected. All of these changes would have been done behind closed doors a couple of decades ago and none of us would have been able to experience the changes at all. All we would have been able to do would be to have read a small blurb in PC Gamer about a reporter's experience visiting The Fun Pimp's studio and trying the game out for an hour and then an expected release date for the game.
If you want to go traditionalist then from 2013-2019 there would be nothing for us. Then in 2019 the full version would come out and that would be all we ever knew. We would have had no clue about:

Minimaps

Clay Molds

Grid-based Crafting

Spam Crafting

Horde Mode

Extensive Cave Systems

Wellness

The Sheer cliffs of Alpha 10

The Grass biome

The maple forest biome

Limitless maps

Hub cities

Giant Hornets

Playing the game without XP or Quality tiers

Farming underground

Blocky terrain

Multiple Respawn Points

Navezgane as the only map option

Gore Blocks

1x1 Ingress

2 block jumping

Smelly Food

No crafting or looting timers

No block upgrading

We got to play the game in many different ways and have those memories because we are a part of this development process that is open to early access. Any creative work is going to have rewrites and cuts. It is the same whether it is video games, movies, books, whatever. Those who can roll with the ups and downs of the development process will have an amazing ride. Those who can't are going to hate it. So it doesn't matter what you call it, what matters is whether you can enjoy it for what it is and keep fond memories of how the game used to be that you got to experience and future customers of the finished game will never know about.

I frankly have no problem with change/removal/addition of features, even as small as changing button text or colour. My problem is Madmole share and said is working on Attribute system with team now. I am not going back to 2013, but how exactly you guys plan for A17, When you guys wake up one fine morning in 2017, did you just ask developer to go to computer and write something useful. And if it looks good then we start planning on it and start coding on it?

Why Funpimps (as they clearly want and use user feedback, I see you and Faatal discuss and act on this very forum thread suggestion) didn't show that Attribute chart 15-16 months ago and take feedback from your experience players. Ask them if this option is good or that. Why it is Exactly a year ago on 5th oct 2017, Madmole show us Bicycle from Game in play screenshot.. And here we are discuss the attribute system which directly effect how much energy will use to paddle a bicycle. Sorry like anyother frustrated fan, I use some hard language. But I totally get the long time it take, I totally get you guys are experimenting and trying good stuffs. But I see your team doesn't have Define focus on task in hand. Fun pimp team is try to make a cake, if it baked well we serve it, else we try again. Team is not planning, not making deadline for themselves to achieve.

For home grown game it is okay, but for professional companies it hurt your long term goals. you guys have skills and amazing skills, but your approach to problem is questionable. I would invest in your game as FAN (and I already did), as I know every year or so I get a new game, but as investor I will never invest in Fun Pimps (provided I got that much money ). I love your game, your passion for development. But your team really need a Direction and need to learn to stick to deadline. Don't push developer or designer for unrealistic deadline, if it take 2 yrs so be it, but plan, think, replan and then start coding. Don't code and see if it works then we use it else not.

In end, I will wait for a17 I just have to drive that 4x4 today or tomorrow, I will drive it one day

 

[Space4Ace]

Do zombies still climb ladders?

Yes. And whatever you can climb, so will zombies; meaning that breaking the bottom ladder trick isn't safe anymore... They will follow!

 

[Prisma501]

I frankly have no problem with change/removal/addition of features, even as small as changing button text or colour. My problem is Madmole share and said is working on Attribute system with team now. I am not going back to 2013, but how exactly you guys plan for A17, When you guys wake up one fine morning in 2017, did you just ask developer to go to computer and write something useful. And if it looks good then we start planning on it and start coding on it?
Why Funpimps (as they clearly want and use user feedback, I see you and Faatal discuss and act on this very forum thread suggestion) didn't show that Attribute chart 15-16 months ago and take feedback from your experience players. Ask them if this option is good or that. Why it is Exactly a year ago on 5th oct 2017, Madmole show us Bicycle from Game in play screenshot.. And here we are discuss the attribute system which directly effect how much energy will use to paddle a bicycle. Sorry like anyother frustrated fan, I use some hard language. But I totally get the long time it take, I totally get you guys are experimenting and trying good stuffs. But I see your team doesn't have Define focus on task in hand. Fun pimp team is try to make a cake, if it baked well we serve it, else we try again. Team is not planning, not making deadline for themselves to achieve.

For home grown game it is okay, but for professional companies it hurt your long term goals. you guys have skills and amazing skills, but your approach to problem is questionable. I would invest in your game as FAN (and I already did), as I know every year or so I get a new game, but as investor I will never invest in Fun Pimps (provided I got that much money ). I love your game, your passion for development. But your team really need a Direction and need to learn to stick to deadline. Don't push developer or designer for unrealistic deadline, if it take 2 yrs so be it, but plan, think, replan and then start coding. Don't code and see if it works then we use it else not.

In end, I will wait for a17 I just have to drive that 4x4 today or tomorrow, I will drive it one day

Just 1 question comes to mind: How the fek do you know the internal workings of this privately owned company? Not planning? Were you at the meetings? Did you watch over their shoulders while planning, discussing, developping? And btw there is nothing to invest. As said TFP is a private company which only aswers to, well...itself. Imo EA is all about experimenting, see what works and what not in compliance with the vision the owners have for this game.

Very curious,

Cheers

 

[DaVegaNL]

Have they announced a feature freeze? (Not sarcasm or flippancy or... I've read all A15, 16, and 17 Dev posts and seriously don't remember that being done. They've talked about it.)

Yeah, they did. That was back in June, if I remember correctly.

 

[littlegreen]

@KhaineGB

On the whole pre-Alpha > Alpha > Beta > whatever thing:

Do you not think that after Alpha 1.0, 2.0, .... 16.4 - it is now too late to put a label on it? :smile-new:

@faatal and @Roland and @madmole

I am much more keen to find out more about the new skill system! It's very excitingly new and RPG and I have a question or two about it:

1. Is there going to be skills you level up through grinding? (E.g. Mining Skill or Scavenging 1/100 @ A16)

2. Would main attributes govern item quality crafting? E.g. Intellect to govern Engineering items, such as weapons' quality?

3. Roland said we'd be able to obtain a total of 206 skill points at max level - I only count 176 things to spend it on the screenshots - is that not the full list of skills? I only ask, because he mentioned it'd be 1 point for 1 skill. (I may be wrong!)

For the record - I DO assume the 206 skill points are not final.

Thanks!

 

[Space4Ace]

the update will not be done before 2 weeks MINIMUM

That's right! As per Roland's email to streamers, it will take "at least" another 2 weeks before the streamers get A17E.

But, there will be 7 Days to Die t-shirts given during the streaming... I want one!