PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Burakin]

He also stated that ziplines were in the game, and behemoths were coming soon... he also said that he was thinking about a July release

Succinct

 

[wildaxeman1]

Well see, that is the issue for me, I really want to play underground (I did on my first playthrough when I got the hang of stuff) but the problem is it gets boring fast and it leaves this whole part of the game untouched, and it is one of the biggest parts.
I think no amount of loot from bosses and the like will make up for it. This is a survival horror game after all, giving incentives to hunt down zombies takes the survival and horror part out of the equation. I know games should be fun, but without much survival or horror, survial horror games become dull pretty fast.

leave mine entrances open and you can have unexpected visitors. even better, dig shallow 16x16 pits and from bottom of them make tunnel to underground. i'm sure, that makes some exitment

 

[Dauthiatull]

sory its a new test trunk not a branch

maybe a release is nigh?

 

[Armstrrong]

Nope. I said without cheating.

This method doesn't include cheating or modding.

 

[Jedo]

I am also in favor of increasing the possibilities / content. But for me it is also part of it that I am left open whether I want to allow certain game mechanics in MY game world or not. Why should the developers insist on telling me how to play the game? An OPEN WORLD should be a big playground and not a strictly linear game.

"Open world" does not mean "choose game mechanics" or "choose bad guys" or any other such thing. It means that you can approach/encounter the things of the game in a variety of ways. For example, you don't get to choose whether you encounter the 7th day horde, but you get to choose how you encounter that horde: running (for now), on the top floor of a POI, in an open field, behind a wall of traps, in a kill box, underground, etc.

So, TFP doesn't tell you how to play the game, but they do dictate what you will encounter. That's the nature of making a game.

Edit: I should caveat that "how" still is limited to what TFP decides. You get to choose "how" from the options available. Whether you agree that those are the options you should have is a different matter. I think that I should be able to hover over the 7th day horde with a jetpack, but that it not available to me. That doesn't mean that TFP is telling me how to play the game.

 

[Burakin]

A little video if you haven't seen it you might be interested in...

Thats looks pretty well done. Not sure what the calc hit would be on that process though. Seems it could go rampant.

 

[The Gronk]

@ The GronkTo edit xml files is not how an usual player roll. We want to check the settings and turn unliked things simply off. That's all.

Is there anything wrong with learning something to achieve what you want?

If you want a truly safe open-world experience then, if I remember correctly, you can turn off zombies altogether with a dropdown selection at world creation... or is it only _some_ limits to your open-world experience that you want?

 

[toores]

Folks concentrate so hard about one feature that they completely ignore how design works. =)

Why are you avoiding the horde?

Because you see no benefit in it?

A benefit can be be created.

If there is a benefit to fighting it, where are you doing it?

Many will want to use static defenses.

Your base looks like a good spot, right? There are likely traps and sturdy walls.

So what could the incentive be?

Zombies in 7 day hordes can drop better loot. Bosses can spawn and drop more loot.

Zombies that die near you (including to traps) can grant you a cumulative bonus to loot quality to start the next week with.

I'm sure many will still not want to fight that horde but you know what? That's okay with me.

I'm all for that. Give players incentives to fight the horde but let them choose.

There will always be players who don't want to fight the horde, whether they are scared of the horde; just on a long trip, far from fortified base or just don't want to repair the base for one week...

 

[The Gronk]

I'm all for that. Give players incentives to fight the horde but let them choose.
There will always be players who don't want to fight the horde, whether they are scared of the horde; just on a long trip, far from fortified base or just don't want to repair the base for one week...

Multi-player? Log off for a bit.

Single player? Change world time or enable god-mode and float above a lake.

Avoiding the horde is trivial without touching game mechanics at all.

 

[JimPanja]

"Open world" does not mean "choose game mechanics" or "choose bad guys" or any other such thing. It means that you can approach/encounter the things of the game in a variety of ways. For example, you don't get to choose whether you encounter the 7th day horde, but you get to choose how you encounter that horde: running (for now), on the top floor of a POI, in an open field, behind a wall of traps, in a kill box, underground, etc.
So, TFP doesn't tell you how to play the game, but they do dictate what you will encounter. That's the nature of making a game.

Edit: I should caveat that "how" still is limited to what TFP decides. You get to choose "how" from the options available. Whether you agree that those are the options you should have is a different matter. I think that I should be able to hover over the 7th day horde with a jetpack, but that it not available to me. That doesn't mean that TFP is telling me how to play the game.

I know what "open world" means. Besides that, basically, it's all about reducing restrictions and focusing more on making the game interesting for a larger group. Of course, TFP will determine what we will encounter in the game. They do that very well. However, one should consider that people simply feel certain game mechanics as "wrong" and do not want them in their game world. So it would only be "right" if they could directly change such things in the options.

What is it all about? It's a game! We gamble games to create and enjoy a parallel reality at short notice. So why should not we be able to turn off the mechanics that keep us from enjoying? One likes it hard - the other one does not. One wants it more realistically - the other one can make friends with utter insanity. Nowadays game developers should try to leave all possibilities open to the user. If you are against it, you have to live with the fact that a not incurable part of the potential users loses interest.

@ The Gronk

There is nothing wrong about that. But that's not how an ordinary player roll. It is a game! I want to play the game to relax, to scare, to shiver... whatever! I don't want to code. And thats not only me. The most players out there don't giving a rats ass to the code. They want to play and relax and scare....

 

[lesipher]

My thought on underground bases and ventilation......

Personally I don't care one way or the other; However, there already exists a solution to the "ventilation problem" built into the game under another name.

Use the electricity mechanic. Rename and re-skin a few basic assets and you are done. copy and paste an air conditioner coil to "intake vent", then do the same for a "fresh air vent". Then using a renamed wrench, or one with a plumbing function added connect the two using repeaters just like the electrical relays. Then so long as they are connected and powered you have air.

this would allow for "toxic" or "hazardous" cave and mine air as an added challenge to moles but wouldn't directly disallow bunker bases.

Again, I don't really care one way or the other, I just like figuring out problems and puzzles.

P.S. I ran a 1.1 Km electric line and it worked fine in spite of unloaded chunks.

 

[trielkee]

My thought on underground bases and ventilation......Personally I don't care one way or the other; However, there already exists a solution to the "ventilation problem" built into the game under another name.

Use the electricity mechanic. Rename and re-skin a few basic assets and you are done. copy and paste an air conditioner coil to "intake vent", then do the same for a "fresh air vent". Then using a renamed wrench, or one with a plumbing function added connect the two using repeaters just like the electrical relays. Then so long as they are connected and powered you have air.

this would allow for "toxic" or "hazardous" cave and mine air as an added challenge to moles but wouldn't directly disallow bunker bases.

Again, I don't really care one way or the other, I just like figuring out problems and puzzles.

Exactly this. With this system in place nobody is forcing you to play in a different way because you can still build shallow bunkers. You will always be a target to blood moon horde if they implement digging zombies.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Log out , change setting, log back in, or use console command.

What if you are playing MP?

 

[HIREDGUN]

Well I used the shoes as an example.
What I'm ACTUALLY thinking of is making the hazmats suits actually work properly vs my current custom radiation buff. That currently works like infection vs antibiotics.

Probably. But we wouldn't want players falling off the edge of the world so you won't see that ingame. =P

I personally would love to see low radiation zones inside the lethal Radiation zones that keep players inside the map...

These Low Radiation zones can damage a player without a suit ... maybe cause radiation sickness?

Maybe make it a buff "radiation sickness" when the zone is entered without a suit?

@Kinyajuu Is there an OnEnterBlock or some way to trigger on location?

 

[Tin]

A dev pointed out that it can’t be done without constant recalculation of every air block between player and surface causing a massive load on the server. And would fail all together since some of that volume would be in an unloaded chunk. Keeping those active is more load on the server. Multiply that by x number of players and what you end up with is a server crash
- - - Updated - - -

All this may be possible one day when IBM releases their prototype 100Ghz cpu

Um, no He didn't. The way I plan on doing this, doesn't involve needing to calc and manage all the volumes of every air block. The way I proposed, is actually based on the campfire mechanics AoE, which is stationary in a set space. Not to mention, the blocks that give the <insert gas> buff, won't be activated till someone hits them.

He poo poo'ed someone else idea that involved needing to calc volumes all the time.

Either way, I'm going to give it a go for my own personal pet project. We'll see how it goes..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(I read ahead)

Not that I want to put all my cards on the table yet but here's a little more info..

My plan involves these "gas making blocks" only appearing till you go below a certain depth around 10m-15m. Having a large open area to the sky won't help with dispersing toxic gas (which is heavier than air) since you would be in what is still considered a confined space by OSHA definitions and need a forced gas removal system. If you do strip mine that big of an area the O2 depletion would be a no never mind type of deal anyways, since you would easily be able to move in and out of the affected area.

Giving a 10-15m depth at where this 'could' occur would still give ppl an out in the early game, by still being able to make a shallow underground shelter but if they wanted to go deeper, they would need to invest in it more, the deeper they go.

 

[Armstrrong]

What if you are playing MP?

Simple. Log out, let someone else deal with it, Log in. :whoo:

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Avoiding the horde is trivial without touching game mechanics at all.

I see a solution:

when heathmap is 0, zombies should not sense you during horde night, hence they should destroy nothing.

What should the requirements be to achieve a heathmap of 0?

• no lights
  
• no running
  
• no making sounds
  
• no use of forges/campfires/chemstat/workben..
  

Obviously, if you are many blocks below surface, you should be allowed to make some noise without being detected. A zombie that senses you through 100 feet of stone, is silly IMO

- - - Updated - - -

Simple. Log out, let someone else deal with it, Log in. :whoo:

Not if you are currently alone in the server..

 

[wolffblood]

"Punishing" players for being naughty and playing the game effectively is kinda like admitting that we suck.
Incentivising playing the game (aka the carrot) inevitably leads to more players enjoying the game and it should not be overlooked that this is the whole dang point of a game.

Adjusting loot quality up/down is super easy at this point so that was simply the first thing that came to mind.

Killing those horde zombies could also lower your gamestage while leaving the loot quality the same. So if you go out looting afterwards, you'll have an easier time because you "thinned out the zombie population". How cool is that?

Right now those hordes are a complete result of what you did the rest of the week. But what you do the rest of the week could also be affected by whether or not you were killing all those zombies...

A lot of these approaches were simply not feasible pre-A17 (without lots of hacky workarounds) because the game data was littered over so many places. That "useless" overhaul and consolidation of game systems is what allows us to do things like the above in a matter of hours.

I like that idea, or at least someone can make a mod of that which I would incorporate. It makes complete sense too. If zombies are being cleared out, it offsets with slower increase of gamestage. And once bandits come in, or other NPC factions, you could have gamestage increase faster if say a specific faction isn't being quelled since they're doing bad experiments or needless killing of others... hmmm, I like that.

But what I really like the most is hearing that with the overhaul that so many more things are available to modders to make stuff to their hearts content for the rest of us. I have a feeling that alone will make this game last a long time. I can't wait to see the new mods coming out, and with the sounds of it being simpler, there will be even more people making mods since it sounds less time consumer or confusing.

 

[Jedo]

I know what "open world" means. Besides that, basically, it's all about reducing restrictions and focusing more on making the game interesting for a larger group. Of course, TFP will determine what we will encounter in the game. They do that very well. However, one should consider that people simply feel certain game mechanics as "wrong" and do not want them in their game world. So it would only be "right" if they could directly change such things in the options.
What is it all about? It's a game! We gamble games to create and enjoy a parallel reality at short notice. So why should not we be able to turn off the mechanics that keep us from enjoying? One likes it hard - the other one does not. One wants it more realistically - the other one can make friends with utter insanity. Nowadays game developers should try to leave all possibilities open to the user. If you are against it, you have to live with the fact that a not incurable part of the potential users loses interest.

Your post didn't indicate that you do know what "open world" means, especially not the phrases "I want to allow certain game mechanics in MY game world" and "An OPEN WORLD should be a big playground."

If there are certain mechanics that you don't want in the game, then find a different game or mod it out. I know that you don't like either of those suggestions, but this is a situation in which the phrase "you can't have your cake and eat it too" applies. Sorry.

Finally, TFP (or any game company) is not making a game that will suit everybody. That's an impossibility. Some might try to target as broad a segment as possible, but they still will leave some out. In fact, consider that Fortnite claims to have 125 million players worldwide. In terms of the overall gamer market, that still leaves out hundreds of millions of players, including me. Should they throw in more options like a minigame mode for unlocking the chests which contain the weapons? Should they add an idle mechanic for those people who like to feel like they are accomplishing something while doing nothing? Wouldn't that improve the game and bring in more players? No.

 

[meganoth]

Instead of thinking of ways to punish underground bases we should try to find incentives to build above ground

Instead of thinking of ways to punish underground bases we should try to find ways to make underground bases interesting instead of a dead area.

I never viewed 7d2d as a: You must do this, or you must fear that... I view it as totally open world.

I dont mind upgrades to dangers and better AI. But I see no reason to ruin underground for those of us who like it.

[....]

And then there are the few hard core players, who just want more gameplay (e.g. underground is boring right now).

Let's get the context right

I think restricting zombie digging to higher difficulty settings than normal would be a good way to go if you are right about this being a hard-core wish.

"Ruin underground for those of us who like it" should be more like "who like it as it is", because other players like the underground as well (that's why we play a voxel game, right?), but find it lacking in some respects.