PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[rdunham3]

While I do like the idea of an air vent system for realism's sake, it would be so easy to get around it that it wouldn't be worth the effort to put in.

I like the idea of someplace more or less "safe" to do a bit of crafting, sorting or simply waiting out the night but I could do that nearly as safely and quite easily on the 3rd floor of the nearest ruin 6 nights per week. Anyone staying in their storage/crafting area on a 7th deserves visitors there. If you don't want to risk your safe spot on a 7th, and don't want to really fight the horde, go explore a skyscraper that night. By the time they do significant structural damage to it you'll have it mostly or completely looted and could care less if it comes down in a rain of rubble. The key to minimizing collapse risk in most structures is for you to not stay still very long, so the zombies keep moving too. That will hold in a17 as well as it does now.

 

[Shiana]

I don't like the idea of an air vent system - reminds mee too much of space engineers, empyrion, etc. all those scifi games have implemented such systems in the meantime, and i dont' want all of the games become the same.

But i would really like to see a food spoilage system, maybe with working fridges - what do we have electricity for? fridges, freezers, ovens. leave the oven on and powered, leave the house and .... FIRE! That would be a nice addon.

 

[kamer1337]

i would love undergrund lava as a threat. digging straight down and you lose

 

[Drithyl]

I don't like the idea of an air vent system - reminds mee too much of space engineers, empyrion, etc. all those scifi games have implemented such systems in the meantime, and i dont' want all of the games become the same.
But i would really like to see a food spoilage system, maybe with working fridges - what do we have electricity for? fridges, freezers, ovens. leave the oven on and powered, leave the house and .... FIRE! That would be a nice addon.

Fires in general (and other disasters) would be awesome to see in 7dtd, although I suspect it would be very taxing performance-wise, so not sure if we'll ever see them.

 

[GenLeeKildenbattle]

Get over yourselves. Me wanting dangers below ground has NOTHING to do with you. I want dangers there because it would make the game more fun for me. I could care less how you play your game but I want a world where no place is safe.

Well isn't that what the mods are for? Make the underground as deadly as you want. I'm all in support of you wanting to change it, but with mods you can change it how you please. Let the default be how it always has been and use mods to change it. They use mods to change everything else. Also by saying you could care less, means you care some. I couldn't care less would be more applicable, lol.

 

[Aurelius]

Fortunately MadMole has already stated that the underground biome is going to be revamped and made just as dangerous as above ground biomes.

-A

 

[wmdvanzyl]

me too, i remember the good old times of a11(?) with the cave sistem and underground zombies, more than once i dig and dig just to pop in in a cave full of angry z's

I love caves

 

[Xandyr78]

It is health based. You have to be wounded.

Faatal, can I just say that this, while simple in appearance, is AWESOME? The little details are what make 7D so immersive for me...and I love that you guys are just continuing to make it better.

Yes, trolls...before you say it, I know there are a lot of "immersion-breaking" bits, too. I just like focusing on what's BEING DONE, not what I think SHOULD BE at any given moment.

 

[Drithyl]

Well isn't that what the mods are for? Make the underground as deadly as you want. I'm all in support of you wanting to change it, but with mods you can change it how you please. Let the default be how it always has been and use mods to change it. They use mods to change everything else. Also by saying you could care less, means you care some. I couldn't care less would be more applicable, lol.

The problem with this logic is that if TFP adhered to it, 7dtd would not have come this far, because they would just have "let the default be how it always has been", just because some people are so attached to the status quo. I'm sure TFP have their own vision of how they want the underground to be, and I'm under the impression that it won't be as sterile as it is now.

 

[HIREDGUN]

BOOM! THANK YOU ! Whoot !

 

[Pizzalicious]

4 ghosts + 1 rip = a17e Friday!

 

[GenLeeKildenbattle]

I'm just surprised that it took the seventeenth iteration of the game before they started changing the underworld to how they always wanted it. If so, then I'll adapt.

I just hope if they are changing a bunch of stuff they also make carrying items more realistic as well. Hopefully they do away with stacks of items and base everything on item weight or size. That way you could only carry one or two rebar frames on you and nothing else. This would prevent people from hauling around unrealistic amounts or weights of items as they can now. Also the more weight should slow your movement speed down also. This also applies to minibke inventories. Just my thoughts if we want to be more realistic.

 

[Drithyl]

I'm just surprised that it took the seventeenth iteration of the game before they started changing the underworld to how they always wanted it. If so, then I'll adapt.

The underworld was changed before the seventeenth iteration. I believe it was a11 that had caves that were much more extensive than they are now, and contained zombies, so you could be digging and break into one of these and see zombies right into your face. It was changed due to the impact on performance, I think.

Zombies also had the ability to dig before, if I heard correctly, but it was also removed due to complaints of swiss cheese terrain.

 

[Zadwanaa]

About nothing in what you describe is simple.
Define closed space? Any little hole could be letting air in like a partial block. Terrain also exists in all kinds of partial block shapes. You could try to path up to the sky and then look at the end block, which could be sideways where chunks are not loaded, which is not an accurate indicator of anything or an block on the surface maybe, but how do you tell?

Now we need to define on the surface (open air), since a block does not know that. Can see the sun or sky? Nope could be obstructed. Pathing stops when closest it can get, so you could easily end inside a steep sloped tunnel or under a stilt type set of blocks (like a base). It starts quickly becoming a brute force problem with lots of path attempts and raycasts, then doing it for each player equals slow.

It is a nice ideal, but needs study, design and probably a lot of work if even feasible with how chunks work.

So what you're saying... is that it'll be in 17.1 and not 17?

 

[Drithyl]

I just hope if they are changing a bunch of stuff they also make carrying items more realistic as well. Hopefully they do away with stacks of items and base everything on item weight or size. That way you could only carry one or two rebar frames on you and nothing else. This would prevent people from hauling around unrealistic amounts or weights of items as they can now. Also the more weight should slow your movement speed down also. This also applies to minibke inventories. Just my thoughts if we want to be more realistic.

As for this, please no. Gameplay trumps realism, and if your realism means that we have to spend 20 hours of real time carrying around one or two concrete blocks at a time to build a base, then I'm out. That's just bad design. There's no fun in walking back and forth one hundred times for the same purpose.

EDIT: I'm not opposed to inventory having weight, or space limitations. But making it so you can only carry one or two rebar frames is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[wolffblood]

As for this, please no. Gameplay trumps realism, and if your realism means that we have to spend 20 hours of real time carrying around one or two concrete blocks at a time to build a base, then I'm out. That's just bad design. There's no fun in walking back and forth one hundred times for the same purpose.
EDIT: I'm not opposed to inventory having weight, or space limitations. But making it so you can only carry one or two rebar frames is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm with you there. There's times when it takes a full in game day to do stuff of that sort, then to have it destroyed because, oops, hordes galore and wasn't ready sadly. So there goes all that. I would rage and quit a game for good if it made it take hours and hours to build just to lose in seconds. I understand it works that way in real life, but there's some things that can stay in real life and others in games. It's a big reason why anyone plays games (typically)

Edit: That and because of Bloodmoon on 7th day of week... It almost take all that to barely get it built if even enough time to have it destroyed to start over again. People can only get so far because they can build fast, you slow that down, 0 progression without having to revamp many many other aspects of the game. Like less items needed, so means less scavaging, shorter timers to craft, just to be able to have time to run back and forth a hundred times to build something. And that then creates more issues with realism because most items actually take more than currently required and longer time than required to make.... :apthy: :apthy:

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Fortunately MadMole has already stated that the underground biome is going to be revamped and made just as dangerous as above ground biomes.
-A

He also stated that ziplines were in the game, and behemoths were coming soon... he also said that he was thinking about a July release

 

[trielkee]

My take on the underground gas/vent stuff.
Make a block that has the same texture as the stone, inserted into the layers underground. You strike the block while mining it activates an AoE buff that depletes your characters O2.

Replace the vent system and in turn have an "air scrubber unit" that needs power (this will also have an AoE to debuff the O2 depletion buff).

The "air scrubber unit" has components, that will deplete over 'X' amount of time that you need to replace (more scrubber units = more time in between that you need to replace).

Or if a vent system is a must: piggy back with the electrical mechanic and have a tool similar to wire tool,"Vent pipe tool". Has the same properties as the wire.

Connect underground duct fanA to the above ground duct fanB. Fan A or Fan B needs to be connected to a generator. The "pipe" from the Vent Pipe Tool also acts as a wire to power the whole thing.

Laying the pipe: >.> you need to collect plastic and wire.

Fan A uses an AoE buff to debuff (whatever) gas.

*I'm just looking at it from a possible mod perspective though.

Edit: With the vent pipe tool being like the electrical mechanic wire laying abilities, the system only needs to check that everything is connected periodically between all points much like having relays, generator and turrets do.

This is the best suggestion on underground oxygen maintenance IMO.

 

[Dauthiatull]

to be honest an underground air system would be trivial to maintain in most cases and be a non issue thus making underground bases no more difficult then they are now.

if you want a real threat they would need to add some threat you cant control like earthquakes, tunneling zeds(not likely due to pathing), underground poi's like crypts you may encounter while you dig,

they could consider having generators malfunction sometimes and fill a local volume with gas forcing you to repair

or have a forge do a check to see if it has a path to air within a short range. this would only be done once when its placed so not to add load to the server and set a flag called closedspace. if closedspace = true then the forge would fill that space with fumes. the player would need to add an air scruber to clean the air. However this would only add another management item to maintain the base and not really add any difficulty.

adding air quality or flooding doesnt make the game more difficult. it just adds more micro management.

 

[GenLeeKildenbattle]

I'm with you there. There's times when it takes a full in game day to do stuff of that sort, then to have it destroyed because, oops, hordes galore and wasn't ready sadly. So there goes all that. I would rage and quit a game for good if it made it take hours and hours to build just to lose in seconds. I understand it works that way in real life, but there's some things that can stay in real life and others in games. It's a big reason why anyone plays games (typically)

This was my point entirely. What a few want is not necessarily good for the whole. Why do they feel they have to make underground harder after all this time, but it's still ok to carry 500 rebar frames in your backpack. I understand it's their game and they can do what they want. I am just butthurt that they may change my underground base in the desert where I can dig to bedrock with a stone shovel and curl up in the fetal position and suck my thumb on horde night.