PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jedo]

...but facts are facts.

Apparently, based on your post, that depends on who is determining what constitutes "facts." It's the world we live in now, but there are many "alternative truths" running around out there.

Welcome to the forums, that's a nice rabbit you have there.

Nice!

 

[The Gronk]

@Menace312What if placing an lcb, assigns the enclosed area as a player lot, like the POI's in the city.

You would have a single fixed point and a perimeter, to set as origin.

im usually wrong in my thought process, but could that work

Your active bedroll should already do that. What system would be in place to stop a player from placing multiple land-claim blocks to negate zombie spawning entirely?

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

If master lcb were given an id on player creation maybe

If there is one designated as master lcb, and all others are basic, master sets lot , others just claim storagespace

 

[Menace312]

As far as I know such a system is already in place, it wouldn't be CPU heavy as the calculation only needs to be done at spawning.
The current problem, as has been pointed out, is that although the screamer is not allowed to spawn within range of the player the zombies she calls do not have such a restriction. The called zombies are spawned around the screamer and, if like me, you're a terrible shot and have to wait for her to get close to kill her the called zombies can sometimes spawn behind you.

A better system would be to have the screamer call a wandering horde, it wouldn't take long to implement as both systems are already in place and would largely solve the ninja-zombie problem.

Good points...

But if a screamer calls in a wondering hoard, you already know the full extend of what will happen and the strategy to follow. You take out the screamer, and wait for the hoard and kill that.

The current system makes you panic! It's different every time, and the screamer may even get to call in zombies 2 or even 3 times before you kill her.

I'm not saying that the current system is perfect... Far from it... But let's not take away from it, in trying to fix it

 

[Menace312]

@Menace312What if placing an lcb, assigns the enclosed area as a player lot, like the POI's in the city.

You would have a single fixed point and a perimeter, to set as origin.

im usually wrong in my thought process, but could that work

The bedroll already does this... Could maybe change this, but you'd still be in the same predicament...

The bedroll and LCB are static object, so they only work in your base. And it also does nothing for the screamer spawn (see post where "The Gronk" corrected me above...

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Or once master lcb is placed, If it cn be made to act like planting. if i plant a tree. in x1y1 I get a red square if i try to plant another in same spot. So if a specific area is blocked from additional placement. next lcb would have to be outside perimeter.

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I was looking at that before. trying to find range of scout spawn

 

[meganoth]

They have mentioned it in a few different videos they been wanting to wrap up 7DTD to do another zombie game but without the building/destruction aspect because it will give them more freedom to do different things. I think evidence points to that's what they have already started, they have more than tripled their staff (According to their videos), but are developing as a significantly slower pace than they ever have before. They have the largest team they have ever had, but this is the longest wait for an update they have also ever had despite it not being that significantly different. Take a look at Alpha 16, comparably not much smaller update than the new A17 but despite significantly larger staff its taken almost twice as long as A16 already. I'm sure before the end of this year we will hear about their next game they have been spending so much time/money on.

Yes, but who did they hire? One programmer I know of, Fataal. The rest seem to have been designers (please correct me if you have better info). Designers that produced about 70 POIs in this one year which if I remember correctly someone said that is the same amount that they produced in all the years before(?). This does look more like they switched from making more and more features to getting more story and content in. Not surprising if they want to finish the game "soon".

Also as far as I know adding features to a big code base takes always more time than to a small code base because of dependencies, i.e. if you add a feature you must make it so it works correctly with all the features that went in before. The complexity rises and the bugs multiply. And I didn't even mention that at least Gazz supposedly reworked a lot of lower level stuff which usually means most of the higher level features have to be adapted to work with the new lower level.

Sure, your theory is also possible. I just wanted to point out a more innocuous explanation.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Its too bad an lcb, isnt a large foundation block, then you could just remove mobcanspawnon tag like with dead corn stalks

 

[GARGEAN]

hmmmm maybe when a17 drops i might see a report with repro on it about this... (i do not have this issue myself and i am not saying it doesnt happen)

So there is possibility that with A17 it will not happen again? Mkay, will try it)

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Wouldn't this be easy to fix like, not have screamers spawn on player placed blocks like natural spawns rules?

Nah, screamers themselves are spawning way outside walls. It's Zeds screamers are summoning who spawn inside.

 

[uowaep]

Good points...
But if a screamer calls in a wondering hoard, you already know the full extend of what will happen and the strategy to follow. You take out the screamer, and wait for the hoard and kill that.

The current system makes you panic! It's different every time, and the screamer may even get to call in zombies 2 or even 3 times before you kill her.

I'm not saying that the current system is perfect... Far from it... But let's not take away from it, in trying to fix it

It sort of makes sense for them to spawn behind you if they also spawn in front of you, especially if the screamer has quite a range on her voice. I do like the idea of it attracting the attention of a wandering horde though. I've never liked the mechanic that the wandering horde uses to orient itself when it spawns. If you're not paying attention, at any time you're outside, you can turn around and 20 some zombies are on your face without making a peep. The idea of sound affecting the orientation of the wandering horde is pretty good though. It makes sense, and it feels more natural. Especially since the horde keeps on moving in a straight line if none of them even agro on you.

The wandering horde could be kept in the world 100% of the time. Could even do a few of them as long as you keep them from merging by keeping them spaced miles apart. You would not need to run them as AI once they are in normal despawn-range. Despawn the actors, but keep a representative location that moves around over time based on loud noises and other activity, plus some random factors. Once they are in range of a player, spawn the actors (maybe even save their states so it's not a total refresh of the horde), and make them walk toward the noises.

If a player is just standing there not doing anything to be noticed, then no obvious spawn on your face wandering horde happens unless they actually just happen to be going your way.

Also make them louder...

 

[wmdvanzyl]

Hey Skippy,
...at first glance it appeared that it would have some solid performance benefits and no major inconsistencies from the previous version.

LOL. That sounds about right. EVery programmer knows that feeling. "Yeah, i'm sure this will be fine... We will just make this one small adjustment here... oh OH NO! OH CRAP!!! MAYDAY MAYDAY MA*(&*(blrup(*)(I" *signal lost*

 

[Wolf959]

Yes, but who did they hire? One programmer I know of, Fataal. The rest seem to have been designers (please correct me if you have better info). Designers that produced about 70 POIs in this one year which if I remember correctly someone said that is the same amount that they produced in all the years before(?). This does look more like they switched from making more and more features to getting more story and content in.

I usually take the programming perspective as well, but reading this reminded me that there is allot of grinding to do as far as story goes. I don't know what they've written or how extensive this quest system could be. Based on things mentioned by MM a long time ago https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17!!!&p=744404#post744404

They could've added a bunch of characters and some serious storyline which, when written well, takes allot of time and adds allot of ... something important... to the game

 

[emarat]

How about instead of them spawning in a ring around her have them spawn behind her in a cone or half ring?
Would that not make them always spawn outside your base?

Hope this makes sense

I think my previous idea about how to make it so screamers can`t spawn zombies inside a base wasn`t understood so i made some paintings in paint to illustrate. They are quite crude but i think easy to understand.

Blue big circle is screamer spawn radius, red is player and the small blue one is the screamer. this is basically how it works now.



This picture shows a different way of spawning. Instead of in a circle around the screamer they are spawned inside a half circle behind the screamer. Darn just realized this would only fix the issue if the screamer was walking towards your base but it wouldn`t fix it (and make it worse) if you were going to your base and the screamer sees you.

View attachment 2133

but hey maybe someone can use this to think of a better idea.

 

[PiercedFromWithin]

Good points...
But if a screamer calls in a wondering hoard, you already know the full extend of what will happen and the strategy to follow. You take out the screamer, and wait for the hoard and kill that.

The current system makes you panic! It's different every time, and the screamer may even get to call in zombies 2 or even 3 times before you kill her.

I'm not saying that the current system is perfect... Far from it... But let's not take away from it, in trying to fix it

Yeah that does raise a legitimate issue. If the screamer were to spawn/attract [relatively] distant zombies instead of pulling them out of thin air in extremely close proximity, the odds of her surviving until the others get close are going go down drastically. And that means the odds of spawning a second or third wave and making things get interesting also go down.

There's always something.

Edit: Unless maybe she gives them all the ability to run for 10 seconds. =)

 

[emarat]

It sort of makes sense for them to spawn behind you if they also spawn in front of you, especially if the screamer has quite a range on her voice. I do like the idea of it attracting the attention of a wandering horde though. I've never liked the mechanic that the wandering horde uses to orient itself when it spawns. If you're not paying attention, at any time you're outside, you can turn around and 20 some zombies are on your face without making a peep. The idea of sound affecting the orientation of the wandering horde is pretty good though. It makes sense, and it feels more natural. Especially since the horde keeps on moving in a straight line if none of them even agro on you.
The wandering horde could be kept in the world 100% of the time. Could even do a few of them as long as you keep them from merging by keeping them spaced miles apart. You would not need to run them as AI once they are in normal despawn-range. Despawn the actors, but keep a representative location that moves around over time based on loud noises and other activity, plus some random factors. Once they are in range of a player, spawn the actors (maybe even save their states so it's not a total refresh of the horde), and make them walk toward the noises.

If a player is just standing there not doing anything to be noticed, then no obvious spawn on your face wandering horde happens unless they actually just happen to be going your way.

Also make them louder...

This idea is quite good. it would fix them spawning inside your base if a screamer sees you and it would leave surprises all over the map.

 

[The Gronk]

LOL. That sounds about right. EVery programmer knows that feeling. "Yeah, i'm sure this will be fine... We will just make this one small adjustment here... oh OH NO! OH CRAP!!! MAYDAY MAYDAY MA*(&*(blrup(*)(I" *signal lost*

Yep, about ten minutes ago. I'm doing procedurally generated buildings... one small change can have a HUGE impact.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

I thought about my last post and it reminded me. When I played Ultima Online, you bought a house placement deed. It was for a specific x,z size and automatically covered you for Y.

Say it was 18X18, you click deed and target land, if it were placeable, you got a solid picture, and hit mouse to place. It would flatten land and place a dirt foundation, nothing could spawn without owner permission. similar to the trader area tag.

And no other foundation could be placed within a specific amount of tiles. "Until Demolition"

If it were on uneven land with obstructions it wouldn't fully appear before placement.

If the LCB or Sleeping bag were as an icon, and when ready to be placed, took the same white box form used when planting.

But set according to admin claim size. the base perimiter should accomplish, all the goals. 1 area of protection, for nonspawning, no multiplacement within a specific distance. But walls and defenses still follow game rule.

This way you would also physically see the actual coverage area.

 

[Prisma501]

Yep, about ten minutes ago. I'm doing procedurally generated buildings... one small change can have a HUGE impact.

Did you turn them into procedurally generated bananas again???

Dude, you gotta stop that!



Cheers

 

[wicketness]

*Pokes Head Out*

PIZZA PREZTELS!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Jumps Off Cliff*

 

[TylerDB]

Isnt the circle to simulate them coming from everywhere though?