PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Tilleen]

You can sacrifice me, long as I become a zombie in the game.

But you are scared of death, sort of by definition.

 

[Necrophobic]

There will always be special POI's that are unique to Navezgane but they are very few. 99% of the POI's will be common to both Nav and RGW. All of the new level designed buildings are coming to both.

Will we be able to know what was/will be left out of the Random Gens so we can decide to start our servers with one or the other?

 

[Roland]

Will we be able to know what was/will be left out of the Random Gens so we can decide to start our servers with one or the other?

No idea. The only thing I can think of at the moment are the huge gorge and the Indian Ruins that are in the gorge. I can't think of any other POI that doesn't exist in both places. There is a pretty huge creepy house on a mountain overlooking Diersville that seems pretty unique to that location. It's possible that one is unique to Navezgane but I'm not sure. Most are common to both. I think for a server going with Random is best because the exploration of the unknown outweighs the very few MIA POIs.

 

[iejen]

Skyrim ive played thru in about 40ish hours. Felt no need to go back. 7 Days I have around 1000 hours in and waiting on hundreds more when A17 comes. To compare the 2 games is a disservice to 7 days.
What kind of an argument is picking one aspect of a popular game and saying 7 days should do it that way just because that game did? In World of Warcraft which is more popular than skyrim your character is limited by class and skill trees. Gotta admit tho, Im looking forward to flying animal mounts in 7 days to die, and 40 man raids, and PVP battlegrounds, and monthly subscription fees, because you know WoW is more popular and has those.

Skyrim: In the running for most overrated game of all time.

You just forgot one detail in your comparison to WoW...

Games like WoW and ESO and other games who let you create special classes will give you the possibility to create multiple characters on the same server.

In 7dtd you only have 1 character per game session.

Therefor limiting your skills and perks is not indeed a shame.

If you decide after a few hours that you did wanted a different type of character.

Not only you have to start all over, but you can never get back to your old character.

 

[ParadiseLostUK]

You just forgot one detail in your comparison to WoW... Games like WoW and ESO and other games who let you create special classes will give you the possibility to create multiple characters on the same server.

In 7dtd you only have 1 character per game session.

Therefor limiting your skills and perks is not indeed a shame.

If you decide after a few hours that you did wanted a different type of character.

Not only you have to start all over, but you can never get back to your old character.

Actually, if you don't mind a little manual work you can have multiple characters in one game. You could, for example, start a game with one character, build a base and then copy the character and map files to a temp folder and delete the original files. When you next start the game you have a fresh character in the same world. By swapping the character files over you can then switch between having top building skills or survival skills.

 

[DaVegaNL]

You've been peeking in at the s̶e̶a̶n̶c̶e̶s̶ ...uh...team meetings.
A17 might come out faster with a sacrifice. Anyone have a virgin sister or daughter they'd be willing to give for the cause?

I'm willing to part with a particular nice rock..?

 

[DaVegaNL]

C'mon now, Roland. Isn't there a forum member in here somewhere that could be sacrificed instead? I still think they are waiting for a certain rockhound to leave for his honeymoon...

*Stutters*

*Looks over shoulder*

.. Who.. Who are you talking about?

 

[DaVegaNL]

Are you guys still subscribed to the 'latest_experimental' beta (can't recall the exact name) on Steam? I tried looking for it yesterday, but this particular branch is not in the list anymore (at least in my Steam).

 

[JimPanja]

Most used A17 mod pack? SMX (health bar version) + NoCap! So what :strawberry:

 

[TheSuperTonza]

Are you guys still subscribed to the 'latest_experimental' beta (can't recall the exact name) on Steam? I tried looking for it yesterday, but this particular branch is not in the list anymore (at least in my Steam).

No reason to be. Because A17E isnt released yet

 

[DaVegaNL]

No reason to be. Because A17E isnt released yet

Haha yeah I know, but I didn't see the option at all anymore.

 

[Simon_Smartypants]

Haha yeah I know, but I didn't see the option at all anymore.

That is because it is also hidden behind a password, has been for almost a month now.

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/depots/

 

[DaVegaNL]

Ah thanks!

 

[Sinz]

Big catch up post because I’ve been busy jamming A16

You guys chat so much in 24 hours!!!

My first instinct was to leave this alone. I have a strong feeling on it but after reading here I think I'm wasting my time, as I think TFP have already made up their minds. But screw it, I going to say it anyway.
I absolutely hate the squeeze being put on skills and perks. I'm a mostly sp guy and this only hurts people going it solo. I'm not the kind of guy that needs all perks and skills maxed, there are lots of perks i don't take. But there are a group of perks I feel we should be able to get, if we work hard enough at it. The solution of just restarting is a really bad one imho. I work too hard, grind too much and put in too much time to be forced to start over because of that group of perks I never got to enjoy.

And don't think I missed that little tidbit about needing to put points to strength just to get bag space we already had in alpha 16. So you're limiting our bag space and requiring, very limited, skill points to get that bag space back? Please let me know if i'm missing something?

Now I'll admit I haven't played alpha 17 obviously but this concern is more than justified based off everything TFP have said.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, that was proven with the removal of the zombie hp bars. Well I'm squeaking.

Please don't regard this post as hostile. I'm sure I'll love alpha 17 either way. Just voicing my concerns.

Not trying to disregard your concerns here but… In A17 (SP and MP) you will be able to make a new character profile and join the world of your old character and share the old characters base and probably even alternate between profiles. So it’s not really a full restart.

Maybe TFP will even make future NPC followers playable profiles that we can alternate between with their own levels and progression. Kinda like State of Decay. That would be interesting.

Can I just throw in my two cents here? As for me, i'm more MP rather than SP, and imho zombie hp bars were nice. First of all, from the beginning of the game it's very important to understand, how strong Z is, because nobody wants to waste time on strong bosses with axe and 5 arrows. But later, when you have good firearms, you and your server friends just want some fun killing stronger Z and getting better loot (on most servers there are customizable Z, so you can't learn all of the stats). So, imho, it will be perfect if devs give us a switchable option of zombie hp bars, so everyone will configure the game as he wants himself.

PS. Sorry for bad English, doing my best to explain

pps. Kage848, nice videos :cocksure:

You explained just fine. And I agree, the hp bars were awesome and I was looking forward to playing with them.

I still stand by the idea of having progress of damage shown on the zombie textures and models. Like dinos in ARK. They get progressively more wounds and blood on them as their HP gets lower.

7DTD semi already has model damage shown with limb dismemberment.

However, I like the point that Roland made in regards to HP bars here:

TFP have made changes such that all the cheesy ways that allowed you to know for sure that a zombie was finally dead are gone. You literally have no idea if it is going to stand back up or maybe take a swing at you if you come up close to bash its head a few more times. It is very creepy and one of my favorite differences between pre-A17 and post-A17.

I really like the sounds of this. Sounds great fun and hard.

I think those surprise “oh ♥♥♥♥” moments when the zombie you thought was dead isn’t would still happen plenty if we had cosmetic damage as an indication of HP but no HP bars.

MY preference would be to start out with only the top row available and then progress from there. Allowing 3 rows at the start is too much imho. Players should have to resort to using strategic stashes at the start until they progress to larger sizes. I also think a nice alternative would have been to purchase slots at the trader to represent buying a larger pack. That would free up skill points for other things as well. I'm likely going to learn how to mod the locked inventory slots so I can start at a much leaner inventory count and then change the number of slots that each point of strength will unlock so I can still get to the top if I wish. Others may want to change it so you start with more or maybe even start with the max if they don't enjoy inventory management and then they wouldn't even have to spend points in that area. I think TFP chose a good middle ground.

My preference would be to start with only 4 belt slots and no bag slots.

And the first priority would be to craft and equip a plant fiber belt and backpack.

Grass woven into a basket on your back lol, only 1 row of slots for that.

I really think inventory slots should be tied to equipment AND perks.

Nothing will be revealed about bosses. You will have to experience them for yourself. That is all.

Does that apply to my question here which was missed?

ya, I expect every server to right away mod it so you can go past the level cap and get everything so there is longer term play. No one wants to stick around when they are maxed out and unable to further progress... since we sometimes plays hundreds if not thousands of hours on a map, getting to level 200 is easy, but now sounds like they are trying to limit things. Might not be what we want, or at the least would like to option to choose this for myself.

I agree. You’re right that people will max out and get bored. It’s the infamous end game fall off. The level progression isn’t going to solve the end game fall off. But don’t want to max everything either. What I want is for the game to never end lol.

I really like the premise of choices that matter like TFP are trying to achieve.

I liked fallout 4 because of choices that mattered. We were limited to what we were good and how we played. We had to make choices and specialize and it made every play through unique.

BUT, in fallout 4 you could gain unlimited levels. It just got slower and slower. As all xp/level curves should.

I would like it if the "backpack" was a piece of clothing you wear or carry. With a slight minimum if you have no backpack or belt on. Like you can carry whats in your hands, like the first row or something only. If you want a belt and backpad, make one from grass.... then equip it, then get a better belt and backpack in the long run. Like a webbing from the military might be even better than a tool belt from a workshop and a backpack from a survival camping kit might be the most modular. They could give different set of bonuses for each type of item equipped too. I would like this much better than what we have now. I think many would enjoy the more customization, and the visual changes it brings too.

You can see into my mind?

Let's not jump right to "The Sky is Falling!" assumptions.

A hint towards gyro copter behemoths!

I still maintain that the foreknowledge that you CANNOT get everything will result in more interesting choices than the foreknowledge that you can eventually max everything. It changes how someone approaches the game and makes choices and it makes those choices more agonizing.
An agonizing choice can be spotted when you have a segment of the community wanting to do away with it (give us enough points to max everything) or soften it (Let us respec).

I personally feel that agonizing choices make for better gameplay. I also know that others will not share this preference.

I agree.

I remember, in my fallout 4 playthroughs, my choices about player progression felt serious and it made for better gameplay. But no matter what build you go for, when you started reaching the end of the perks for the specialization that you chose, you would feel like a power house. Everything paid off and the perks that you didn’t get weren’t necessary after all. The choices felt serious and made for better gameplay and he game felt complete without maxing everything but the game didn’t stop you from maxing them all if you stuck around for 1000 hours. That extra mile is optional but it also felt good filling in those little gaps in the specialized build you started with.

Especially since people often don't look to see if a bug was already reported and discussed, but just post about it again.

I’m probably guilty of doing this without even knowing. I’ve read the sticky and know the bug report rules and I always search for reports when I post them. But the search on this forum isn’t very good or maybe I’m just really bad at using it.

 

[unholyjoe]

What would solve everything, is just a quick release of A17-E for one week...THEN everyone would know that, yes, A17 is not ready.

My imaginary bug reports for A17-e if released now:

1) Flying Zombie Attack dogs, while a good counter to gyrocopters, might need an adjustment.

2) Boss Zombies splattering my characters corpse around the room was fine, its when he sits on my backpack with a big grin on his face. Waiting for me to come back and attack him with a stick... I want that to be a bug!

i already have a response macro just for you... ALL of YOUR reports will get the big "Working as intended... Suck It Up Buttercup"

seriously tho... you wouldnt have the boss to worry with about getting your back pack back... he would steal everything and destroy the back pack and then have a big grin on his face.

ok... who leaked it out about flying zombie dogs? jeeesh nobody can keep secrets around here.

 

[Kage848]

I agree with most of what you said here. It does look as though it will hurt people that are solo and both spreading out points and limiting them isn't helping.

On the other hand we have not played it and it might work out. If not we could count on TFP's to tweak it so it is better.

The thing with the back pack could be replaced by simply leveling up for example.

I would like to point out though that the HP bar was (never) intended to stay in the game. The devs have pointed out that it was for testing only.

I know we haven't played it yet. And I'm praying my concern is misplaced. But I hear kinyaju, spelling?, say we would only get enough points to max 2 1/2 skills. And TFP have said they want us making agonising decisions. I think I'm right to be worried. But again, I hope it's for nothing.

As far as the backpack is concerned. Either way you look at it we will have to spend 3 points, from am already very limited point pool, to get the bag space back to alpha 16 levels. I'm sorry but I don't consider making, marking and managing drop chests all over the world fun. Maybe that's just me.

I didn't know that about the hp bar. So am I to think TFP won't listen to the fans on there own forums? I'm not saying they should do whatever we say but I have to believe they do read this stuff and it is at least considered?

 

[Aldranon]

i already have a response macro just for you... ALL of YOUR reports will get the big "Working as intended... Suck It Up Buttercup"
seriously tho... you wouldnt have the boss to worry with about getting your back pack back... he would steal everything and destroy the back pack and then have a big grin on his face.

ok... who leaked it out about flying zombie dogs? jeeesh nobody can keep secrets around here.

Thats OK, I already have a counter.

My Multi-Single Player Game!

I First lead in with my player (Focus: Strength and Melee), "Killy McKillface", who's only job is to clear an area and build a starter fort. No major POI's.

After day 7 or 14 depending on success, I bring in "Nerdo McEinstein" (Focus: Non-Combat skills), who will build stations and gadgets for two weeks.

Alternating each one after that will be as the situation demands. So, if Mckillface dies (I play dead is dead), I bring in a new slugger or shooter. All my effort is not lost and life goes on!

 

[sillls]

I know we haven't played it yet. And I'm praying my concern is misplaced. But I hear kinyaju, spelling?, say we would only get enough points to max 2 1/2 skills. And TFP have said they want us making agonising decisions. I think I'm right to be worried. But again, I hope it's for nothing.
As far as the backpack is concerned. Either way you look at it we will have to spend 3 points, from am already very limited point pool, to get the bag space back to alpha 16 levels. I'm sorry but I don't consider making, marking and managing drop chests all over the world fun. Maybe that's just me.

I didn't know that about the hp bar. So am I to think TFP won't listen to the fans on there own forums? I'm not saying they should do whatever we say but I have to believe they do read this stuff and it is at least considered?

Jack of all trades, master at none.

That's what I am getting from the forums. Seems that they are saying that you can max out in to or three skills and be really good in a few areas and be rather limited in everything else. Roland said that you can still do all the basic things even without any skill points invested.

But the way I see it is. That you can spend points in every area that you like and while not the master at any skill, be proficient in it. So that you can make the best of any situation.

You can still be a decent fighter and a builder, just not a master at it.

Roland, let me know if I left anything out?

 

[Aldranon]

Play two (or more) SP games using the same map! I never have tried this, but it makes sense, as my player is not the only survivor in the world. You can build your own A-Team and fight off the Armies of darkness single-handed! Yet, not single handed.

 

[akram22]

i actually like the new system . when i looked at it form Roland's POV , no one is using the shotgun turret or the auto, it was a feature that was Added in A16 , after thinking for a while i saw :

if iam going to master smgs and shotguns iam going to do some really damage with them even not in A16 "the more you master an attribute or perk you are going to get some direct and indirect skills" as Roland said (i believe) . so iam going for example: i can tear 3 heads in one shot .

maybe iam a builder so iam going to hide in very fortified base real soon , and can mange every thing without getting touched .

or i can master the electricity like the mages and stuff. i can build advanced traps that take the point of covering me and my base with no worries .

and tons more of fun things to try, like being a tank of health an armor that dont fear the hordes .

kage i remember that you on one of your lets plays (not sure reavenhurst or wotw). you said you " will try the shotgun class " other time you selected the farmer and medicine and blades . so why dont we figure out what is our preferred mix

after all , we saw nothing and nothing is up , to see the full pic. iam really really sure we all going to like it. just let TFB finish this masterpiece

coz fataal is hovering around from time to time and this time is taken from him while he have 30+ bugs.