PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Azmodeth]

Currently you start the game with 40 slots (including the toolbelt). In A17 you will start the game with 35 slots (including the toolbelt). By spending 3 points you will gain six slots and already be above what you are used to and the rest will be gravy. This is largely a preference issue and TFP can't solve for all preferences other than making the xmls available which they have.
MY preference would be to start out with only the top row available and then progress from there. Allowing 3 rows at the start is too much imho. Players should have to resort to using strategic stashes at the start until they progress to larger sizes. I also think a nice alternative would have been to purchase slots at the trader to represent buying a larger pack. That would free up skill points for other things as well. I'm likely going to learn how to mod the locked inventory slots so I can start at a much leaner inventory count and then change the number of slots that each point of strength will unlock so I can still get to the top if I wish. Others may want to change it so you start with more or maybe even start with the max if they don't enjoy inventory management and then they wouldn't even have to spend points in that area. I think TFP chose a good middle ground.

The HP bars for enemies are still implemented in the game as of now. If you go into debug mode they are there for every enemy. Now they might change this but I think they probably won't as it is a really useful tool for development. We will have to wait until people who know what they're doing take a look but it might be an extremely simple toggle to get them to appear again during normal play.

I do have to put in a plug, however, for my own preferences once again... Having played both ways it is much better without them. TFP have made changes such that all the cheesy ways that allowed you to know for sure that a zombie was finally dead are gone. You literally have no idea if it is going to stand back up or maybe take a swing at you if you come up close to bash its head a few more times. It is very creepy and one of my favorite differences between pre-A17 and post-A17.

So to recap, you can press F1, type dm, and then ESC and play your game with HP bars if you want, possibly be able to mod them in, or play it like a survival horror game and just wonder if that zombie you "killed" behind you might possibly be standing up right now....

To be really fair, that 90% are usually happy to just play whatever automatically downloads onto their computer and consider playing a game in any way other than how the developers intended it as sacrilege....

Nothing will be revealed about bosses. You will have to experience them for yourself. That is all.

Here is the error in this argument. Just the knowledge that you can eventually get everything eliminates choices due to the fact that gamers will always gravitate to the most efficient and preferred pathway. They will always get their same favorites first because there is zero risk and they can get what they consider the lesser perks later on if they feel like it. Compare that to a game where there are several great choices but you can only be strongest in 3 of them and average in 4 but you are really curious how the game plays with some of those 4 maxed out. That means the next time you play because you know you can't have it all you will choose from the second set and settle for being average in the first set.

The knowledge that you can't get everything also makes each choice a more considered and tougher choice. Why spend more than a moment's thought on what you purchase if you can purchase everything eventually? Games with tough and interesting choices are better than games with weak or uninteresting choices and choosing (A or B) is always more interesting than (A then B) or (B then A).

Finally, this game is not, imo, about being the ultimate superman survivor. It is about surviving against the world presented by the game and having some weakness that you must deal with while surviving make the game way more interesting than having no weaknesses. Some people play with the creative menu enabled and have fun but I can't play that way. Giving myself a sniper rifle with five stacks of ammo is fun at first but it gets boring fast.

Again this is a preference issue so nobody is wrong about how they like to play. Thankfully the devs have given us the means to redesign it for varying play preferences.

ya, I expect every server to right away mod it so you can go past the level cap and get everything so there is longer term play. No one wants to stick around when they are maxed out and unable to further progress... since we sometimes plays hundreds if not thousands of hours on a map, getting to level 200 is easy, but now sounds like they are trying to limit things. Might not be what we want, or at the least would like to option to choose this for myself.

I would like it if the "backpack" was a piece of clothing you wear or carry. With a slight minimum if you have no backpack or belt on. Like you can carry whats in your hands, like the first row or something only. If you want a belt and backpad, make one from grass.... then equip it, then get a better belt and backpack in the long run. Like a webbing from the military might be even better than a tool belt from a workshop and a backpack from a survival camping kit might be the most modular. They could give different set of bonuses for each type of item equipped too. I would like this much better than what we have now. I think many would enjoy the more customization, and the visual changes it brings too.

 

[chaosterone]

I understand how many players want to max everything, but from my perspective it is not absolutely necessary to do so. Perhaps the solution to the points cap built into the game would be for really difficult quests later (after level 175?) in the game where the quest giver will "teach" you a new skill.

This wouldn't be in vanilla, most likely, but with how the Pimps are making this game modable, I can see infinite possibilities. This would also keep long term players busy trying to max their skills and keep them exploring the world.

 

[Roland]

@Developers or Illuminated Ones
How many block IDs does Alpha 17 support?

You're asking the wrong question, Marty....

Spoiler

But I prefer a restriction based on hard work. Smething like: it is incredibly hard to get all perks, but you can do it, if you put in enough work.

Starting over and creating a completely different and distinctive character with its own set of strengths and weaknesses is the hard work that eventually allows you to experience the maximum benefits of every skill and perk. Bam!

i really wish i could do that but i'm not computer friendly at all....

And what would YOU say to someone who said, "I'm not a computer guy so that's why I only play games that come on a CD. Steam confuses me and I don't get how to activate keys or do the whole digital download thing. I've always played my games using disks of some kind and I'm too old to change that now"?

Wouldn't you wonder how someone could gate themselves away from a ton of fun over a gate that while unfamiliar to them is really not that difficult to walk through? It is the same with xml editing. It is unfamiliar but you don't need to understand programming to make changes. All you need to know how to do is use the basic functions of a word processing program like copy, paste, and delete. Using Steam to verify the integrity of your files is you're ultimate eraser to return your game to vanilla if you make a mistake. There are many tutorials and people in the modding forum who are stellar about holding your hand and helping you to learn. Don't create a closed gate to your fun. If you kids know how have them show you.

I think ultimately this "to max or not max" discussion revolves around whether you're playing SP or MP
When you play MP with friends it matters less because each person can max different skillsets and its fun to play different roles, but that's pretty much useless in strictly PVP or SP.

<shrug> Maybe with other games but I don't see it that way for 7 Days to Die. As I've said before, I can't think of one aspect of gameplay in 7 Days to Die that can't be enjoyed if you don't max out everything. There are multiple means to whatever you want to do. Just because some modern games call themselves RPGs and then let the players get everything it doesn't mean they really are RPGs. Classic RPGs ensure that a character will be strong in some ways and weak in others because that is a more interesting role to play. The game is still tilted towards SP as it just becomes way way way too easy with MP-Cooperative. Weaknesses, notwithstanding, you can easily survive and thrive in this game as a lone survivor.

 

[Zadwanaa]

I would like it if the "backpack" was a piece of clothing you wear or carry. With a slight minimum if you have no backpack or belt on. Like you can carry whats in your hands, like the first row or something only. If you want a belt and backpad, make one from grass.... then equip it, then get a better belt and backpack in the long run. Like a webbing from the military might be even better than a tool belt from a workshop and a backpack from a survival camping kit might be the most modular. They could give different set of bonuses for each type of item equipped too. I would like this much better than what we have now. I think many would enjoy the more customization, and the visual changes it brings too.

I would absolutely LOVE that. Almost kidn of like PUBG, with better quality backpacks = more slots. add in various clothings that add in slots for inv. gotta balance between temp or inv space

 

[dan]

I think the specialization of skills is going to be a good thing for A17. In the real world, if a zombie apocalypse happened like this, everyone who survived wouldn't be able to do everything. If, for example, there were a contractor, doctor, and police officer who survived, who do you think will be better at building a base, using a pistol, and making medkits? Sure everyone could learn from each other but would never reach the skill of the person who was trained.

It adds a lot of strategy to the game. It makes choices matter. It will make co-op play a lot more fun instead of the endless amounts of pvp servers. Think about yourself and what would happen if it were real. What are your skills. How would you use your own skills to survive? You wouldn't be able to be the best at everything, you would use what you know. If you were a big, strong dude who has never used a firearm, you would probably go for a melee weapon and be badass with it compared to another guy who spent all his time working in a lab somewhere.

Classes/specialization will add so much to the game, not take things away. You won't be able to do everything, so figure out how to survive with what you can do. Make choices based on what your playstyle is.

People always post about the game being too easy, having everything, etc. Well here ya go. Try to have everything now Mr. Elite.

 

[faatal]

How long until about half your bugs are fixed?

If it was only that simple. While I'm fixing those issues, new ones will get added and I will find more broken stuff on my own.

 

[Roland]

Roland..........
When A17 comes out will we be able to use random gen map and get all POI's, I remember back on A15 some of the POI's were only avil in navezgane map.. ie "Stadium"....................

There will always be special POI's that are unique to Navezgane but they are very few. 99% of the POI's will be common to both Nav and RGW. All of the new level designed buildings are coming to both.

Hi
i have been following this thread for a while now, but since one of my questions have not been asked, i decided to become a member and make this my first post.

In the artwork for A17 there is a wolf or dog with armor on it.

In the video concerning the artwork, it is said that we will be able to tam them and use them, is this correct?

This is my all time favorite game ever, and i can not wait for A17.

But I promise to be :02.47-tranquillity: and thank you for all your hard work:smile-new:

Joel did show those things as concepts but you'll notice they did not make it onto the first page of features coming to A17. Those ideas are still just conceptual and not much actual work has been done to add them to the game. The timeline on things like pets, NPC followers, blueprints, and communities is not known. Some of that may not come until after the gold release of the game. TFP plans to continue to update the game for at least two years after the release (so 1-2 updates haha) and right now they are focused on a specific set of features that they need to include in order to call the game shipable.

 

[unholyjoe]

If it was only that simple. While I'm fixing those issues, new ones will get added and I will find more broken stuff on my own.

great response, and totally true

 

[Aldranon]

Roland, Roland, Roland: "Nothing will be revealed about bosses. You will have to experience them for yourself. That is all."

I, like 90% or more of all players, will be watching streamers get the crap scared out of them on their first Boss fight.

They will all be called "Screamers" after that and someone will make a music video using all their screams of horror when they first fight a Boss (when I say "fight", I mean them getting splattered across the room!).

SOOO, you might as well tell us (me) what terrible things the boss's can do.

 

[Aldranon]

If it was only that simple. While I'm fixing those issues, new ones will get added and I will find more broken stuff on my own.

You guys! You're looking too hard for bugs, I call them features! My friends that are wise: call them features!

They're features. Good, fun and exciting... features.

 

[Gamida]

I think it was mentioned that the slots would be tied to a strength perk but it doesn't sound to me is how it should work. I was thinking it could be tied to your experience (level) instead. Here is my thoughts on it.

If you start with 32 slots and you fill every single one with cement mix (say stack is 4000) then you won't be able to pick up even a feather. Even if you dropped 3999 cement mix you still won't be able to pick up that single feather.

So what if instead say every 5-10 levels (amount to be determined) you got one slot back without having to buy it. Then you wouldn't be wasting points as some may call it, but you still have to earn them (slots) over time. Think of it as as you play you learn how to manage the space in your backpack better to squeeze every bit of available space out of it. So if the max amount of extra slots you could get is 16 and you get one at each 5 levels that is still 80 levels you have to gain to max out. (Will kill me in Ravenhearst by how slow I level )

You could also make all baskets in world a certain size and have ability to buy upgraded ones at traders to increase amount of slots on bikes/vehicle. Or perks to be able to build your own.

Just spitballing here.

 

[beerfly]

You guys! You're looking too hard for bugs, I call them features! My friends that are wise: call them features!
Their features. Good, fun and exciting... features.

How do you call a feature something that does not work properly. I mean, ya ,you can find new ways of getting advantage of it, but if it is not according the plan, some call it a bug. I like how you think though.

 

[unholyjoe]

You guys! You're looking too hard for bugs, I call them features! My friends that are wise: call them features!
Their features. Good, fun and exciting... features.

ha ha... go look in the bug report section of forum and see all the features that most are pointing out.... the reports arent bad,, its the comments that show us how much fun is being had.

 

[Aldranon]

How do you call a feature something that does not work properly. I mean, ya ,you can find new ways of getting advantage of it, but if it is not according the plan, some call it a bug. I like how you think though.

Oh, they'll fix everything in a couple of hot patches. The whiners will whine no mater how clean A17 is. Nobody takes them seriously anymore, so nothing to lose and millions of testers to gain.

 

[Roland]

Oh, they'll fix everything in a couple of hot patches. The whiners will whine no mater how clean A17 is. Nobody takes them seriously anymore, so nothing to lose and millions of testers to gain.

Do you know how annoying millions of reports is for bugs that are already known?

 

[beerfly]

Oh, they'll fix everything in a couple of hot patches. The whiners will whine no mater how clean A17 is. Nobody takes them seriously anymore, so nothing to lose and millions of testers to gain.

We both have in mind that the less bugs the better. Just the time for me is irrelevant, since it always gets better. Specially when an efford is ..um done. )

 

[Roland]

Roland, Roland, Roland: "Nothing will be revealed about bosses. You will have to experience them for yourself. That is all."
I, like 90% or more of all players, will be watching streamers get the crap scared out of them on their first Boss fight.

They will all be called "Screamers" after that and someone will make a music video using all their screams of horror when they first fight a Boss (when I say "fight", I mean them getting splattered across the room!).

SOOO, you might as well tell us (me) what terrible things the boss's can do.

All I will say to that is:

MAKE SURE TO TUNE IN TO A STREAMER NEAR YOU!!!!!!!!

(thanks for the promo lead-in, Al)

 

[Aldranon]

Do you know how annoying millions of reports is for bugs that are already known?

Hmmm... I KNOW! Internet server "crashes" making all bug reports impossible to input! It stays "crashed" for... say... 3-4 weeks.

 

[Pichii]

ya, I expect every server to right away mod it so you can go past the level cap and get everything so there is longer term play. No one wants to stick around when they are maxed out and unable to further progress... since we sometimes plays hundreds if not thousands of hours on a map, getting to level 200 is easy, but now sounds like they are trying to limit things. Might not be what we want, or at the least would like to option to choose this for myself.
I would like it if the "backpack" was a piece of clothing you wear or carry. With a slight minimum if you have no backpack or belt on. Like you can carry whats in your hands, like the first row or something only. If you want a belt and backpad, make one from grass.... then equip it, then get a better belt and backpack in the long run. Like a webbing from the military might be even better than a tool belt from a workshop and a backpack from a survival camping kit might be the most modular. They could give different set of bonuses for each type of item equipped too. I would like this much better than what we have now. I think many would enjoy the more customization, and the visual changes it brings too.

+1

100% do not think limiting player progression in any way (Pertaining to max level) is the way to go.

Tho, i do like the idea of specialization in the early levels for some extra gusto. Kinda makes you have to think a bit more... But also limits early fun if solo....

As long as its a moddable option, idc.

If they want to make it harder, make maxed skills give less xp and they can solve this problem.

"Specialization" Means nothing when your life is technically infinate and idk why you would want to limit character progression in a 'crafting' game. xD

(watches 7days2die fall in line with ark even minor and shudders)

(From config folder in 7d2d)

<progression>

<player

max_level="200"

(Just make this value higher. Easy fix. They already stated they did not change config files really.)

exp_to_level="9545"

experience_multiplier="1.0149"

skill_points_per_level="6"

skill_point_multiplier="0"/>

<!-- A15: 8000 XP for level 1 and 134k for level 199, total cumulative of 9MXP; XPRequired = exp_to_level * experience_multiplier ^ level -->

<!-- A16: 8300 XP for level 1, total cumulative of 11MXP -->

 

[gamegeezer]

I know the Pimps are hard at work while the rest of us pray, beg, question god, dream, yearn, and bargain-with-the-devil for the A17 fun to arrive. Until then, thanks to all the Pimps for your hard work, creativity, brain power, devilry, and craziness that goes into this awesome game.

:rockon: